Marriage Counseling (Update added)

[shilala]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc

Originally posted by: shilala

Your patience will likely be tried to the extreme. Be prepared to be objective.

Can you elaborate on this any?

Thanks for all the help everyone...tough going through this and it's so new to me that I'm not at a point where I feel I can even talk to friends/family about it yet. We haven't even been married 2 years yet...2 years in August.

Sure.
They'll gang up on you, tell you what an asshole you are, explain to you that all you've done is invalid, explain that all the hard work you've put in the relationship was misdirected, and basically slap you in the head with a big fat dick.
The goal will be to show that there's two sides to the relationship. Your side and a fvcked up side.
Odds are that you'll hear things that sound completely disrespectful, and your deepest feelings will be stomped on.
Keep your mouth shut, take it in, and try not to react. If you're open minded enough, sooner or later they'll explain what it is that they're talking about.
At that point you'll be able to go think it through.
You may not end up liking it but you'll have to find a way to accept it.
It's not all that fun, but it's very helpful. You may very well find that the huge problems are easily fixed.

 

[49erinnc]

Thanks for all the help, advice and kind words (some of you anyway). What concerns me is that she has already seen this counselor several times alone and is still contemplating leaving the marriage. To me, that's not a good sign and I'm not sure that going as a couple is going to change anything. A counselor can only do so much and if she is no longer in love with me (don't know if she is or not), then that's not something that can be fixed in my opinion. I just can't get her telling me "I'm so unhappy" out of my head...it crushed me to hear it, even though I've heard it in some way or another, several times in the past and failed to react.

And to be honest, I don't even feel as though I need a counselor to point out the problems. My wife has clearly stated them to me all along but I have chosen not to listen and be the husband she thought she married. I blame myself for everything. I considered myself to be a great husband for the wrong reasons. I cooked all her meals, I took care of the house and yard, I did all the grocery shopping, I took her out to dinner, I bought her gifts, I got along with her friends, I got along with her family, I kissed her goodbye every morning before work, etc. But any guy can do that stuff. The things I DIDN'T do are the very reasons why my marriage may be over. She just doesn't feel we have that inner connection or spark anymore. It was just 6 months ago that we were talking about trying to have a kid. I thought everything was great but now it couldn't be any worse.

 

[Koing]

What did she do in the marriage? It seems to me you already did a lot!

Inner connection/ spark anymore she wanted to be chased and stuff after marriage also. Did you suprise her? I'm sure you did as you seem to have done everything.

Koing

 

[49erinnc]

Originally posted by: shilala

Sure.
They'll gang up on you, tell you what an asshole you are, explain to you that all you've done is invalid, explain that all the hard work you've put in the relationship was misdirected, and basically slap you in the head with a big fat dick.
The goal will be to show that there's two sides to the relationship. Your side and a fvcked up side.
Odds are that you'll hear things that sound completely disrespectful, and your deepest feelings will be stomped on.
Keep your mouth shut, take it in, and try not to react. If you're open minded enough, sooner or later they'll explain what it is that they're talking about.
At that point you'll be able to go think it through.
You may not end up liking it but you'll have to find a way to accept it.
It's not all that fun, but it's very helpful. You may very well find that the huge problems are easily fixed.

Great...sounds like it's going to be a blast. And I'm a very defensive person by nature so I'm guessing this is going to be really trying for me. With her having already gone a few times and still thinking about leaving, I feel like I just want to go into a room with the counselor and say "Look, you've obviously spoken to my wife about all of this and you know where she stands. Let's cut to the chase: Is it over or do I still have a chance of salvaging my marriage by being here?

That a bad idea or should I just sit there and take whatever she (counselor is a she) throws at me?

 

[dirtboy]

My ex-wife wanted to go to counseling. I found it easier to get divorce and be rid of the bitch than spend the rest of my life trying to figure out how to make a relationship work between two people who shouldn't be together. It was a good move, my current girlfriend and I have a great relationship that doesn't require constant work.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Thanks for all the help, advice and kind words (some of you anyway). What concerns me is that she has already seen this counselor several times alone and is still contemplating leaving the marriage. To me, that's not a good sign and I'm not sure that going as a couple is going to change anything. A counselor can only do so much and if she is no longer in love with me (don't know if she is or not), then that's not something that can be fixed in my opinion. I just can't get her telling me "I'm so unhappy" out of my head...it crushed me to hear it, even though I've heard it in some way or another, several times in the past and failed to react.

And to be honest, I don't even feel as though I need a counselor to point out the problems. My wife has clearly stated them to me all along but I have chosen not to listen and be the husband she thought she married. I blame myself for everything. I considered myself to be a great husband for the wrong reasons. I cooked all her meals, I took care of the house and yard, I did all the grocery shopping, I took her out to dinner, I bought her gifts, I got along with her friends, I got along with her family, I kissed her goodbye every morning before work, etc. But any guy can do that stuff. The things I DIDN'T do are the very reasons why my marriage may be over. She just doesn't feel we have that inner connection or spark anymore. It was just 6 months ago that we were talking about trying to have a kid. I thought everything was great but now it couldn't be any worse.

Well that's her problem, not yours. You sound like a great husband.

She doesn't have butterflies anymore and is craving that feeling again. I feel sorry for her, maybe the counseling will help her with her problem. good luck!

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: farmercal

No two ways about marriage fvcking sux....

My wife an I have been married since 1 Mar 1978 and been happy ever since. I guess you have to choose right.

Cal

AUSM is just bitter and anti-marriage now, don't mind his posts.

I have about ten thousand reasons after my last divorce


AUsm

 

[Twofootputt]

Went to counseling with the ex 15 years ago. She had been to the woman 4-5 times alone. It turned out to be let the guy down easy counseling. I nevere felt like she was there for us, just for the ex. So, I guess I'd say if you're going for marriage counseling, then start with another counselor who has no previous opinion. Good luck.

P.S. Remarried, still hard work, but worth the effort.

 

[Batti]

You should visit YAGT

Also, I find the Marriage Builders to be really helpful. Dr. Harley's advice seems to ring true to me.

 

[49erinnc]

Originally posted by: Koing
What did she do in the marriage? It seems to me you already did a lot!

Inner connection/ spark anymore she wanted to be chased and stuff after marriage also. Did you suprise her? I'm sure you did as you seem to have done everything.

Koing

My wife is a great person. She is very caring, very loving and other than the occasional nagging, I can't really complain about her as a wife. And I have no problem placing the blame on myself for all of this. My wife didn't want much from me. She just wanted me to communicate with her better, she wanted to feel attractive to me, she wanted me to get a sparkle in my eye when I saw her and she wanted me to appreciate her more. I don't think those are overboard for someone to want of their spouse. I'm just not a good communicator and I realize that. My parents (they divorced when I was a teenager) never talked. When I look back on their marriage, I realize now just how miserable they were. They were together just for the sake of being together. I remember being a kid and seeing my parents sitting at the breakfast table every morning in complete silence. And I think I got a lot of those characteristics from my father.

My wife will come home from work and she will tell me something about her day. And I just can never seem to give adequate feedback or seem enthused. I don't know why that is but I'm just that way. I'm like that with most people. I can listen and take in what she says but then I don't ever seem to have anything to offer in return to maintain the conversation. And I think she just got tired of trying to "talk" to me with very little response. Anyway, that's just one issue of many but I think it's a huge one for her. She looks around at other couples at dinner tables just going on and on with their small talk and we usually sit there eating, with few words exchanged. The crazy thing is that I'm sitting there completely aware of the silence so then I'll force conversation but it just comes across so bland and phony.

Like I said, I'm aware of my faults and her reasons for being so unhappy. It just kills me because things used to be great and now they're far from it. And I hate that I let it get to this point with so many indications (some rather direct and blunt) along the way. Didn't intend on getting into so much detail here but as I said earlier, I have NO ONE to talk to right now because I'm just not prepared to let anyone know of our troubles yet.

 

[49erinnc]

Originally posted by: Twofootputt
Went to counseling with the ex 15 years ago. She had been to the woman 4-5 times alone. It turned out to be let the guy down easy counseling. I nevere felt like she was there for us, just for the ex. So, I guess I'd say if you're going for marriage counseling, then start with another counselor who has no previous opinion. Good luck.

P.S. Remarried, still hard work, but worth the effort.

That terrifies me and has crossed my mind. I am scared to death that I'm being led into this to just help me/us come to terms with it being over instead of working on saving the marriage. I would love to see someone else but right now, I'm not in a position to be calling shots. So I'm just going to this one tomorrow, despite the previous interaction between she and my wife. However, if I don't come away feeling good about the session, then I will suggest we see someone else. I just have to be really careful right now what what I say and what I do. My wife is already halfway out the door and the last thing I want to do is push her the rest of the way out.

It's just all so surreal to me right now. I'm very much in the denial stage and having a very hard time even coming to terms with what she has told me in the last couple days. She came home from her part time job last night and didn't even come get in the bed, as she opted to sleep on the couch. That's the first time my wife and I have been under the same roof and not slept together since we got married. That was very hard to take and really made me feel that this may be too far from saving.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Thanks for all the help, advice and kind words (some of you anyway). What concerns me is that she has already seen this counselor several times alone and is still contemplating leaving the marriage. To me, that's not a good sign and I'm not sure that going as a couple is going to change anything. A counselor can only do so much and if she is no longer in love with me (don't know if she is or not), then that's not something that can be fixed in my opinion. I just can't get her telling me "I'm so unhappy" out of my head...it crushed me to hear it, even though I've heard it in some way or another, several times in the past and failed to react.

And to be honest, I don't even feel as though I need a counselor to point out the problems. My wife has clearly stated them to me all along but I have chosen not to listen and be the husband she thought she married. I blame myself for everything. I considered myself to be a great husband for the wrong reasons. I cooked all her meals, I took care of the house and yard, I did all the grocery shopping, I took her out to dinner, I bought her gifts, I got along with her friends, I got along with her family, I kissed her goodbye every morning before work, etc. But any guy can do that stuff. The things I DIDN'T do are the very reasons why my marriage may be over. She just doesn't feel we have that inner connection or spark anymore. It was just 6 months ago that we were talking about trying to have a kid. I thought everything was great but now it couldn't be any worse.

1) the fact that she has a history with the counselor should not be a concern. this will save you time and IMO make it less likely that she is able to misrepresent (either consciously or subconsciously) the situation.

2) very few relationship problems are the result of one person. you're being completely unrealistic if you think your relationship's problems are 100% your doing.


what exactly is she unhappy about? if she is just unhappy in general, and is attributing that unhappiness to you, then thats an issue she needs to deal with and you may not be able to do a whole lot about. if there are specific things you do or don't do that she is not happy about then she needs to tell you that so you can decide whether or not you want to do those things.

 

[Koing]

She should still be with you.

Has she tried to bring a sparkle to your eyes?

Just try and communicate better? Do you do other things beside work and home (marriage) life? If not that there is going to limit on what you can talk about.

Go out with your other friends so when your with your wife you do have THINGS to talk about. Have your wife go out with her friends.

Don't be so harsh on yourself.

Maybe her day was boring and your not interested? Do you read? If so read some funky books or just go out to a park together and just hold hands and walk? Try some outdoor adventures?

Talk as much as you want. Most people are aside from the joking are honest and willing to listen.

ATOT is a :thumbsup: community

Koing

 

[Attrox]

I don't know, it seems that you are being a good husband. Regarding the communication part, she already knew that's how you are before getting into the marriage right? I think it's just bullcrap she said that she wanted to feel more appreciated unless you were lying about how you treat her on a few posts above. I think she felt bored about the relationship and wanted something new. Don't put all the blame on yourself, it took 2 people for marriage to work out and it looks like you have done a lot (based on your own post above).

 

[KarenMarie]

Hi 49erinnc..

I have not been to "marriage" counseling.. but did go to counseling with a previous b/f I had. I loved him dearly, as he did me... adored each other... but we just could not make it work. On our third session... the counsel suggested that we switch focus from building and working the relationship, to how to survive the breakup counseling. She saw the writing on the wall better than either of us did.
but that is us...

My sister goes to marriage counseling right now with her husband. They get a LOT out of it. The problems are all hers, but he is loving and supportive.

One place that has helped them BOTH is THIS SITE. I have been there a lot of times to try and understand what she is going thru. I have learned a lot. Especially from the discussion forums.

It show how to work on your self, your partner and your relationship. Great site.

And Good Luck!

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc

Originally posted by: Koing
What did she do in the marriage? It seems to me you already did a lot!

Inner connection/ spark anymore she wanted to be chased and stuff after marriage also. Did you suprise her? I'm sure you did as you seem to have done everything.

Koing

My wife is a great person. She is very caring, very loving and other than the occasional nagging, I can't really complain about her as a wife. And I have no problem placing the blame on myself for all of this. My wife didn't want much from me. She just wanted me to communicate with her better, she wanted to feel attractive to me, she wanted me to get a sparkle in my eye when I saw her and she wanted me to appreciate her more. I don't think those are overboard for someone to want of their spouse. I'm just not a good communicator and I realize that. My parents (they divorced when I was a teenager) never talked. When I look back on their marriage, I realize now just how miserable they were. They were together just for the sake of being together. I remember being a kid and seeing my parents sitting at the breakfast table every morning in complete silence. And I think I got a lot of those characteristics from my father.

My wife will come home from work and she will tell me something about her day. And I just can never seem to give adequate feedback or seem enthused. I don't know why that is but I'm just that way. I'm like that with most people. I can listen and take in what she says but then I don't ever seem to have anything to offer in return to maintain the conversation. And I think she just got tired of trying to "talk" to me with very little response. Anyway, that's just one issue of many but I think it's a huge one for her. She looks around at other couples at dinner tables just going on and on with their small talk and we usually sit there eating, with few words exchanged. The crazy thing is that I'm sitting there completely aware of the silence so then I'll force conversation but it just comes across so bland and phony.

Like I said, I'm aware of my faults and her reasons for being so unhappy. It just kills me because things used to be great and now they're far from it. And I hate that I let it get to this point with so many indications (some rather direct and blunt) along the way. Didn't intend on getting into so much detail here but as I said earlier, I have NO ONE to talk to right now because I'm just not prepared to let anyone know of our troubles yet.

Was your communication with her like this, even before you were married?

If so, maybe the real problem she's having is something else, or maybe it was never meant to be.

If not, can you find something that changed that? Can you pinpoint when it started to change?

 

[sixone]

Good luck, 49erinnc. I hope you see things improving soon.

 

[Armitage]

I think it can work if both people are committed to making it work, and willing to do the work. In my experience, alot of people agree to counseling just so that they can say that they tried. Helps with the whole guilt thing.

My ex and I saw two different counselors, but it wasn't going to make any difference - she had already made up her mind and was only seeking confirmation of that decision, not help. The first guy said it was all my fault, and basically told her what she wanted to hear, and based his assesment on what I considered to be very brief and entirely superficial descriptions of the situation. He had seen her individually, but not me. The second took the time to really understand the situation - seeing us both separately and together several times, getting to know the situation in excrutiating detail. Then it all fell apart in one session when the counselor asked her about an apparent contradiction (ie. she couldn't keep her lies straight). She then basically admitted that her participation was a sham, and she had no intention of trying to work things out As you can imagine, things went down hill from there.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

It really should be called Divorce Counseling.

 

[cherrytwist]

And based on what she has told me, I'm not even sure counseling will save our marriage and I fear it will be used simply to confirm her doubts that our marriage will survive.

Did you express this concern to her?

 

[cherrytwist]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
It really should be called Divorce Counseling.

That's not necessarily true.

I've known couples on both side of the equation...some wanted to work it out and stay together (they did) and some ended up splitting up.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: DearQT/luvly
Since you have a penis, you're automatically thinking wrong and by your own admission you aren't putting her on a pedestal. I've taken abnormal psych class at a community college & I'm convinced you're a sociopath beyond redemption. If you were a man that actually had testosterone instead of estrogen running through your veins, you'd kill yourself for the sake of all mankind. Thank god you haven't procreated

:Q

 

[49erinnc]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

what exactly is she unhappy about? if she is just unhappy in general, and is attributing that unhappiness to you, then thats an issue she needs to deal with and you may not be able to do a whole lot about. if there are specific things you do or don't do that she is not happy about then she needs to tell you that so you can decide whether or not you want to do those things.

I'm not really sure but I think the majority of her unhappiness is because of our marriage. She has other issues in life but they aren't anything that 99.9% of the real world don't deal with like money problems, work-related stress, etc. But I'm pretty sure that the majority of the unhappiness she is feeling is strictly because I'm not the husband she wants me to be. And again, I don't think she's asking me to go to extremes. The things it would take to make her happy seem simple to me, yet so hard for me to actually do. She called me Saturday night after work and told me she was going over to her friend's for a while and that she would spend the night if it got too late so that I could get some sleep. After prodding a bit, she confessed that she just didn't want to come home, period. She said she just didn't want to be here that night but that she would come home the next morning and we could talk. We talked and for most of the day, I felt like we may at least have made a little progress. But then when we woke up this morning for work, she was distant again from me. So that's when I said "_____, I don't know how I'm supposed to be right now...I don't know if I'm supposed to just give you some space or go back to being your husband" And she was like "I just don't know what to tell you because I don't know what I want right now." And I said "So, you're still thinking about leaving me?" And she said that she was still thinking about it. I had to call in to work and take the day off because I couldn't even bring myself to go in. She called me earlier to let me know our first counseling appointment is tomorrow. It was shortly after that, that I made my initial post here.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc

Originally posted by: shilala

Sure.
They'll gang up on you, tell you what an asshole you are, explain to you that all you've done is invalid, explain that all the hard work you've put in the relationship was misdirected, and basically slap you in the head with a big fat dick.
The goal will be to show that there's two sides to the relationship. Your side and a fvcked up side.
Odds are that you'll hear things that sound completely disrespectful, and your deepest feelings will be stomped on.
Keep your mouth shut, take it in, and try not to react. If you're open minded enough, sooner or later they'll explain what it is that they're talking about.
At that point you'll be able to go think it through.
You may not end up liking it but you'll have to find a way to accept it.
It's not all that fun, but it's very helpful. You may very well find that the huge problems are easily fixed.

Great...sounds like it's going to be a blast. And I'm a very defensive person by nature so I'm guessing this is going to be really trying for me. With her having already gone a few times and still thinking about leaving, I feel like I just want to go into a room with the counselor and say "Look, you've obviously spoken to my wife about all of this and you know where she stands. Let's cut to the chase: Is it over or do I still have a chance of salvaging my marriage by being here?

That a bad idea or should I just sit there and take whatever she (counselor is a she) throws at me?

Go in realizing that you're going to have to bite your tongue; you're right on target when you say this is going to be tough for someone who's defensive.

The counselor, if she's any good, will try her best to point things out without being accusatory.

From what you've been saying, it sounds to me like you have an excellent chance of getting your marriage back on the right track. It's now a matter of whether you're willing to try to make the changes that your wife finds important, and whether she's going to give you the chance to do that.

 

[49erinnc]

Originally posted by: Attrox
I don't know, it seems that you are being a good husband. Regarding the communication part, she already knew that's how you are before getting into the marriage right? I think it's just bullcrap she said that she wanted to feel more appreciated unless you were lying about how you treat her on a few posts above. I think she felt bored about the relationship and wanted something new. Don't put all the blame on yourself, it took 2 people for marriage to work out and it looks like you have done a lot (based on your own post above).

Attrox, no, I wasn't the greatest communicator in the world when we first started dating several years ago. I think she knew that. And during the latest fall-outs we've had, she has even made reference to that by mentioning that she guessed she thought I would change in those regards. But even though I wasn't a great communicator, I do know that we at least had that "spark" then. We had that emotional connection where we didn't ever want to be apart from each other. So I think that despite the lack of communication, there weren't any magnified problems because she at least felt that bond with me and felt like I was "the one."

And I wasn't lying about how I treat her. I do ALL of those things and always have. After our first year of dating (not marriage), I put together a scrap book of all of our favorite memories together. I had saved all the movie stubs for a year, several restaurant receipts for dinners deemed special, photos from various places we went, etc. I put them all in a book, added tons of quirky quotes, stickers, stencils, etc. It was titled "Our First Year Together." That made my wife's (girlfriend at the time) life. That was probably the happiest I have ever seen her. I haven't done anything like that since and the date on the first page of that book is July 2000-2001. So, despite me doing the things above that I mentioned, I haven't really done anything like that since. She deserves to be that happy again and I have failed to deliver. No, she's not perfect but she has been a great girlfriend, fiance and wife to me. And I just feel like I have let her down and want so much to get her back to a place where she feels happy with me and our marriage.