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March 6,1836...6:30a.m Remember the Alamo

T

Texmaster

Banned
For Texans this is a very special day.

Its the day Texas made its official claim of Independence from Mexico and the last day of the Seige on the Alamo.

On the evening of March 3 the Mexican bombardment suddenly fell silent and Travis called the defenders together, making a long speech. Travis announces that escape is impossible and surrender will lead to execution, so they may as well fight to the death and sell their lives and steeply as possible.

"My choice is to stay in this fort and to die for my country, fighting a long as breath shall remain in my body. This I will do even if you leave me alone. Do as you think best -- but no man can die with me without affording me comfort at the moment of my death," the account has Travis concluding.

Travis then draws a line in the dirt with his sword, and asks that everyone willing to follow him to the death step across that line. Everyone crosses but one man. Jim Bowie, sick, asked that his cot be carried across the line.

There are many accounts as to the number of men who fought and died on both sides. The most accurate numbers of the dead come from a Colonel and a Captain in the Mexican army, one was in charge of the body count and the other recorded his own numbers in a diary.

Texas lost,

28 Officers
30 volunteers from South Carolina (along with William B. Travis)
15 volunteers from Tennessee (along with David Crockett)
32 volunteers from Gonzales (the only who responded to the repeated appeals for help of Colonel Travis)
all other volunteers (81) came from different countries (England, Scotland, Germany, Ireland) and from various States.

In all, 189 Texans killed between 1,800 and 2,000 out of 3,400 Mexican soldiers in the 13 day seige of the Alamo.

The massacre served as a battlecry for The Battle at San Jaciento.

The whole line, led by Sherman's men, sprang forward on the run with the cry, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!" "REMEMBER GOLIAD!!" The battle lasted but eighteen minutes. According to Houston's official report, the casualties were 630 Mexicans killed and 730 taken prisoner. Against this, only nine of the 910 Texans were killed or mortally wounded and thirty were wounded less seriously.

After the Capture of General Santa Ana trying to pass himself as a common soldier the next day, Texas was finally free.


The Alamo stands today as a majestic display of men willing to die for the dream of a free Texas.

"I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor and that of his country

? VICTORY OR DEATH." Lieutenant Colonel William B. Travis




I'm sure many trolls will come in this thread to crap on it but it wont take away what this day means to Texans.
 
One question (not being from Texas, I've not had near the reading regarding the Alamo as I would like), but didn't Santa Anna flee the battle of San Jacinto wearing a dress (he was "occupied" with other activities when the battle started)

I'd have to admit, it would take some special courage to stand your ground, when you were completley surrounded, and the enemy has played the Deguello (literally"we're cutting your throat" or No Quarter)
 
Here, here! Those were very special men that stared death in the face that day. I see the Alamo (literally) every day, and have never forgotten what it stands for.
 
Thanks for reminding me. 😀


However, I think your estimates of the Mexican casualties is high. I was under the impression that only about 700 Mexicans died. The Alamo was not easily defendable, and as questionable as many of Santa Anna tactical decisions were, he did do many things that day to minimize the effectiveness of the Alamo defense.

1) He gave strict orders for his forces to remain silent while getting into position around the compound.
2) He made sure his attacking forces had adequate foot wear so that they wouldn't cry out from stepping on a catcus.
3) The attack was started in the middle of the night, removing the defensive advantage of the long rifle.
4) He attacked after 10 days of constant artillary fire. The defenders were exhausted and literally asleep until the Mexican Army was in good position.

Despite this, there were other decisions that were just plain dumb.

1) Santa Anna didn't even need to take the Alamo. They could of avoided the battle entirely.
2) Santa Anna didn't wait for the heavy artillary to arrive. Just a few more days and he could of blown the walls of the Alamo away.
3) Only about 10 ladders were used in the assualt, spread between 1000 or so men.


Edit: grammar 😛
 
What do Texans typically do to commemorate this day other than just remember it? Do you just watch documentaries and take a tour of the Alamo?
 
Thanks for reminding me, Tex.

My understanding is that Santa Ana tried to surround the whole shtinkin' thing, while the Texans' artillery commander (forget his name) concentrated his cannons really well and really effectively and tore the Mexicans a new one.

Just curious Yamaha, where'd you hear that? Much of it--including much of Santa Ana not being really dumb--wasn't in the account I read; I also read the 3400 number like Tex.

As for celebrating, I'll remind all of my friends that they're from inferior states, i'll watch Rio Bravo, and I'd go to the local bar were it not that I have a paper due 🙂
 
There is a book called, "Line in the Sand" which documents the military history of the Alamo, as well as the efforts to preserve the Alamo as a shrine to freedom and independence. The book presents accounts from both sides of the war, and does a good job at discussing both the military strategies as well as the outcomes of all the major confrontations during Texas' fight for independence. Almost every paragraph has a cite to some historical document so it also serves as an excellent review of Alamo information sources.

I also found a website, that you can look at. Here That presents numbers more in line with mine.

In general, I don't really get to concerned about minor differences in numbers. The important thing is to remember than many men knowingly gave their lives in the name of freedom and democracy. Furthermore, the men in the Alamo, had the chance to escape each night as the Mexican lines were not impermeable. They made the decision to die for liberty each day.

Some of the Alamo cannons were very effective, spraying shot into groups of Mexican infantry at less than 20 yards. BUT other cannons were ineffectual. The was a larger cannon that was position in a way as to be aimed in the right direction, but would fire OVER the heads of the Mexicans. The real problem in the assualt was that the attack was bottled necked at the point when the Mexican infantry had to scale the walls. Once they were able to get in, the fighting was basically over, and the defenders were systemically hunted down and killed.
 


<< Thanks for reminding me. 😀 >>



Np 🙂




<< However, I think your estimates of the Mexican casualties is high. I was under the impression that only about 700 Mexicans died. The Alamo was not easily defendable, and as questionable as many of Santa Anna tactical decisions were, he did do many things that day to minimize the effectiveness of the Alamo defense. >>



As I said before, there are many different accounts of the final tally. I wrote 2 papers on the subject in college taken from 7 or more sources each. The reason I used the numbers I did was because they were taken from officers in charge of reporting the body count.

The mos tprofoud quote camer from Col. Juan Almonte, privately noted: "One more such glorious victory and we are finished"

And since the count of Mexican soldiers in Total has never been a source of dispute (3,000-3,500), such a quote made would be more in line with much higher body count as the Mexican officers reported than what was reported by a few women and Santa Anna himself.


The tally you refer to was taken from one of the 20 women and children, Ana Esparza, wife of Gregorio Esparza, who passed the bodies as she and the others were set free. She was well known years later of turning her stories into a carreer.



<< 1) He gave strict orders for his forces to remain silent while getting into position around the compound.
2) He made sure his attacking forces had adequate foot wear so that they wouldn't cry out from stepping on a catcus.
3) The attack was started in the middle of the night, removing the defensive advantage of the long rifle.
4) He attacked after 10 days of constant artillary fire. The defenders were exhausted and literally asleep until the Mexican Army was in good position.

Despite this, there were other decisions that were just plain dumb.

1) Santa Anna didn't even need to take the Alamo. They could of avoided the battle entirely.
2) Santa Anna didn't wait for the heavy artillary to arrive. Just a few more days and he could of blown the walls of the Alamo away.
3) Only about 10 ladders were used in the assualt, spread between 1000 or so men. >>



Yes and I've read many accounts similar to yours. Thanks for sharing it. 🙂
 


<< Yeah, its a great day in Texas. Tex I thought it was 187 men, not 189. >>




Acccounts range from 145 to 220, although I think the more accurate numbers are in the high 180s
 
Tex, do you believe the accounts that some men like Bowie and Crockett were taken prisoner and then executed, or do you believe they all found to the death at their post?
 


<< And since the cout of MExican soldiers in Total has never been a source of dispute (3,000-3,500), such a quote made would be more in line with much higher body count as the Mexican officers reported. >>



I agree that the total army was about 3500 strong, BUT Santa Anna did not attack the Alamo with the entire force. He only sent about 1000-1200. link I can't remember what source was cited for this books arguements, but I suspect the author used multiple sources, triangulating his conclusions from fairly independent sources.

Again, the actual numbers detract nothing from the sacrifice made. But since many readers here don't know that there is room for debate, its important to present alternative accounts.


And yes, Santa Anna wasn't loved by all. 😀 Apparently he had illusions of granduer, thinking that he would build an unstoppable force as he branded Texas back into submission. He also had a drug problem, and he was not very good at seeking out dissenting opinion. Rather he would seek advice that he knew would be in line with what he already decided. Almonte and de la Pe&ntilde;a are good examples of Mexican Officers that weren't very supportive of Santa Anna.


Another way of trying to approximate the Mexican Casualties is to realize that the forces killed and captured at San Jacinto were only part of the Mexican Army. Houston destroyed a bridge that effectively split the Mexican forces. So if the battle of San Jacinto resulted in 1

<< 630 Mexicans killed and 730 taken prisoner >>

AND there were another 1500-2000 or so on the other side of the river, then only 500-1000 could of died at the Alamo.

Mexican army total: 3500-4000 men.
Men killed or captured at San Jacinto 1400 men
Men seperated by river at San Jacinto 1500ish
Mexican troops killed at Alamo 3500 - 1400 - 1500ish = 700ish

We will probably have to agree to disagree....

Anyways, great post. thanks again.
 
I'm glad someone thought enough to post this. It is a proud yet sad day for many Texans because of this. Let us never forget.

Thanks for posting this Texmaster. 🙂
 
though i have never had a pleasant experience in TX, this is one event that no one should forget and everyone should know of.

Thanks for the post Tex and yamaha and for reminding us who true Patriots are.
 


<< Tex, do you believe the accounts that some men like Bowie and Crockett were taken prisoner and then executed, or do you believe they all found to the death at their post? >>



Absolutly not. More than 3 eyewitness accounts have Bowie dead in his bed after shooting down two Mexican soldiers. And Crocket dying between the chapel and the barracks building. Travis died at a Cannon Position.

The Mexican Army didn't know Crockett from any other man, its not like they worse uniforms or had IDs. Travis' slave, Joe was asked by the Mexican army to dientify his body.

 
UT Austin bought the diary of a Mexican soldier that corroborated the account of the prisoners is why I asked. Either way it in no way diminishes their sacrifice.
 


<<

<< Tex, do you believe the accounts that some men like Bowie and Crockett were taken prisoner and then executed, or do you believe they all found to the death at their post? >>



Absolutly not. More than 3 eyewitness accounts have Bowie dead in his bed after shooting down two Mexican soldiers. And Crocket dying between the chapel and the barracks building. Travis died at a Cannon Position.

The Mexican Army didn't know Crockett from any other man, its not like they worse uniforms or had IDs. Travis' slave, Joe was asked by the Mexican army to dientify his body. >>



I thought Bowie had 2 pistols loaded and ready to fire, hit and killed one mexican coming into the room, and missed the second one coming in shortly after, then the mexican smited him with his bayonnette and killed him.
 


<< << Tex, do you believe the accounts that some men like Bowie and Crockett were taken prisoner and then executed, or do you believe they all found to the death at their post? >> >>



I agree with Tex on this one. There very well may have been some prisoners that were executed, BUT I don't think Crockett or Bowie were among them.

The support for the theory that Crockett was killed is based on part, a letter written by a translater who assisted in conversations between Texan officers and Almonte. The letter was originally published in a Detroit newspaper within a year of the Battle of the Alamo. It has been published more recently here (you may not have access to JSTOR)


Did David Crockett Surrender at the Alamo? A Contemporary Letter, by Thomas Lawrence Connelly. The Journal of Southern History © 1960 Southern Historical Association p. 368-376.

Did Almonte lie? If so then how much can stock can we put in his other reports, diaries, etc...?



 
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