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March 10,2016 GOP Debate thread

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eskimospy said:
Glad to see you agree that illegal immigrants aren't eligible. Are you now saying you would like to strip eligibility for benefits from people if they marry an illegal immigrant? That would seem to be highly illegal.
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SNAP benefits everyone in the household, not just the person getting it. So illegals are directly benefiting in that scenario when it could be going to a spouse who is actually paying taxes and contributing. I have friends who are successful and have a dependent/s on SNAP in the household. Guess who buys the bulk of the groceries? Not my friends.

This isn't even getting into more hard facts:
1) Illegals cost us 19 billion over the past decade using the child tax credit refund.
2) Free Emergency Room care. Illegals can't be penalized on their credit report for not paying since they have no SS#. We have to eat that cost.
3) Free Schooling. Illegals in our schools hurt the teacher:student ratio. Studies show that higher teacher:student ratios hurt students' performances. Not to mention hiring more teachers because of more students.
4) Stifling new tech because companies will either pay for labor or tech (like machinery), not both. Cheap labor from illegals discourages new innovation in tech because it kills demand for it. Remember how we talked about getting to the Star Trek replicator? They hurt that cause.
5) Money flowing out of this country that should be staying in our economy, let alone that a lot of it was under the table and hasn't had taxes paid on it. While some pay taxes, most of this money doesn't get re-distributed back to the jurisdictions who bear the burden.
6) Crimes committed which include rape, dui, etc that have monumental detriment to society.
7) Holding wages lower with 500,000 new illegals coming in each year. Saying they offer a new skillset is absolute BS. They offer the same skillset that LEGAL immigrants offer.
8) Impact to federal and state level excessive spending for additional border patrol/guardsman. A wall eliminates this excess spending burden that will perpetually continue as long as our border isn't secure.
 
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eskimospy said:
Her policies are probably the most realistic of any candidate running on either side. It's also bizarre to say that only Sanders tells you that he's going to raise taxes, as raising taxes is explicitly part of Hillary's college plan. Did you not know this?

Sanders' policies are actually highly dishonest as he drastically underestimates the funds required to implement them. (by more than a trillion in some cases.) Also, Hillary isn't advocating Medicare for all, she's advocating for basically continuing the ACA.

That being said, I find it highly ironic that someone who supports Donald Trump thinks they can criticize other people's plans for being unrealistic and deceptive. lol.
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Hillary's only raising taxes to a high degree on the rich, the middle class impact is negligible (I've read .9%) and nothing to get up in arms over.

And da fuck you talking about she isn't saying universal healthcare for all?? That's exactly what she said.
https://youtu.be/WjjJJn_P_tg?t=11
 
SP33Demon said:
SNAP benefits everyone in the household, not just the person getting it. So illegals are directly benefiting in that scenario when it could be going to a spouse who is actually paying taxes and contributing. I have friends who are successful and have a dependent/s on SNAP in the household. Guess who buys the bulk of the groceries? Not my friends.

This isn't even getting into more hard facts:
1) Illegals cost us 19 billion over the past decade using the child tax credit refund.
2) Free Emergency Room care. Illegals can't be penalized on their credit report for not paying since they have no SS#. We have to eat that cost.
3) Free Schooling. Illegals in our schools hurt the teacher:student ratio. Studies show that higher teacher:student ratios hurt students' performances. Not to mention hiring more teachers because of more students.
4) Stifling new tech because companies will either pay for labor or tech (like machinery), not both. Cheap labor from illegals discourages new innovation in tech because it kills demand for it. Remember how we talked about getting to the Star Trek replicator? They hurt that cause.
5) Money flowing out of this country that should be staying in our economy, let alone that a lot of it was under the table and hasn't had taxes paid on it. While some pay taxes, most of this money doesn't get re-distributed back to the jurisdictions who bear the burden.
6) Crimes committed which include rape, dui, etc that have monumental detriment to society.
7) Holding wages lower with 500,000 new illegals coming in each year. Saying they offer a new skillset is absolute BS. They offer the same skillset that LEGAL immigrants offer.
8) Impact to federal and state level excessive spending for additional border patrol/guardsman. A wall eliminates this excess spending burden that will perpetually continue as long as our border isn't secure.
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I have no desire to get into that off topic rant about immigration costs, but if you actually look into the literature on the topic you'll see that there is no such conclusion that illegal immigrants are a net cost to society. Some studies have said they are a net cost, others a net benefit.
 
eskimospy said:
I have no desire to get into that off topic rant about immigration costs, but if you actually look into the literature on the topic you'll see that there is no such conclusion that illegal immigrants are a net cost to society. Some studies have said they are a net cost, others a net benefit.
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Show me a study that took all 8 of my above variables into account and I'll believe you. Sure, liberally-funded studies will take a bunch of those variables into account, but I have yet to see one that uses all of them. Hence my belief that illegals are a net loss on our society.
 
SP33Demon said:
Show me a study that took all 8 of my above variables into account and I'll believe you. Sure, liberally-funded studies will take a bunch of those variables into account, but I have yet to see one that uses all of them. Hence my belief that illegals are a net loss on our society.
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Illegals being a net loss to our society isn't what we should be looking at. What we should be looking at is, illegals affect on working age US Citizens making say $50k or less. What you will find, as everyone at those income levels already innately understands from Reality, is that having massive amounts of competition for your job, or a job you are competing for, doesn't help you one F'ing bit. When you're a healthy 18 year old male who isn't going to go to college, and you need job, you can't get a job on that roofing crew because the 10 illegals are already on it. And on and on. I'd love to see a study on that, but I'm betting that a.) no such studies exist or b.) they're a "study".
 
chucky2 said:
Illegals being a net loss to our society isn't what we should be looking at. What we should be looking at is, illegals affect on working age US Citizens making say $50k or less. What you will find, as everyone at those income levels already innately understands from Reality, is that having massive amounts of competition for your job, or a job you are competing for, doesn't help you one F'ing bit. When you're a healthy 18 year old male who isn't going to go to college, and you need job, you can't get a job on that roofing crew because the 10 illegals are already on it. And on and on. I'd love to see a study on that, but I'm betting that a.) no such studies exist or b.) they're a "study".
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From what I've read, there are some jobs that illegals are willing to do cheaper than americans, but americans are still willing to do them - just not for slave wages (obviously). So that ties into my variable #7:
7) Holding wages lower with 500,000 new illegals coming in each year. Saying they offer a new skillset is absolute BS. They offer the same skillset that LEGAL immigrants offer.
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Even if they theoretically offered a different skill set (which liberals argue), legal immigrants can fill the need that our citizens do not. And legal immigrants would be paid more to do it! This cost would be passed back to us, of course but I don't mind paying more to ensure that there's not a net loss on our economy. And that people are actually following and respect the law.
 
SP33Demon said:
From what I've read, there are some jobs that illegals are willing to do cheaper than americans, but americans are still willing to do them - just not for slave wages (obviously). So that ties into my variable #7:
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It's not just being cheaper than Americans, it's also being able to pay straight cash - a simplification of hiring and payment. And, Yes, Americans will do a lot of these jobs (which makes the people who throw out the blanket 'They're just doing jobs Americans won't do! <weep weep>' look like absolute imbeciles) just not for as low of a wage an illegal will do it for. But then we coddle the American by the social handouts so they are able to actually make that choice. Worse, we then reward the greedy and/or lazy business owner because now they get to reap profits at the expense of the taxpayer. That restaurant owner who couldn't afford to not work in their own restaurant if they paid Americans to work there now has to actually work in their own restaurant, rather than just show up once in a while and reap the profits. The horror! That lawn care guy will actually have to charge more per lawn, cutting into not only his profits but the number of lawns going down will mean need for less people - my god, he might have to work himself! Worse, the people that can't afford the higher costs might, OMG!!!, have to mow their own lawns!!!😵😵😱

Even if they theoretically offered a different skill set (which liberals argue), legal immigrants can fill the need that our citizens do not. And legal immigrants would be paid more to do it! This cost would be passed back to us, of course but I don't mind paying more to ensure that there's not a net loss on our economy. And that people are actually following and respect the law.
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Legal immigrants will do some jobs just don't want to do, and/or, we can get legal immigrants to report in numbers to areas that need the labor where enough Americans that need jobs like that aren't living. Legal immigrants/guest workers do fill a need the country has. We just don't need 10's of Millions of them.
 
SP33Demon said:
Show me a study that took all 8 of my above variables into account and I'll believe you. Sure, liberally-funded studies will take a bunch of those variables into account, but I have yet to see one that uses all of them. Hence my belief that illegals are a net loss on our society.
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Hahaha. So basically you're dismissing empirical research on the topic based on an arbitrary list of things that you decided are the right ones to consider.

How about this: let's take actual research on the topic over your poorly informed ranting. That sounds like a good plan, right?
 
eskimospy said:
Hahaha. So basically you're dismissing empirical research on the topic based on an arbitrary list of things that you decided are the right ones to consider.

How about this: let's take actual research on the topic over your poorly informed ranting. That sounds like a good plan, right?
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So when cutting through the BS of the above post, you can't show me a study. Duly noted. Owned again.
 
eskimospy said:
Universal health care does not have to equal universal Medicare.

You're a bit slow today, aren't you? haha.
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It's not that much different and will require higher taxes to rise to fund it. You're a bit slow today, aren't you? BTW, still waiting for you to paypal me that extra 5% of your salary since you don't mind paying more in taxes. You hate money, we get it.
 
SP33Demon said:
It's not that much different and will require higher taxes to rise to fund it. You're a bit slow today, aren't you? BTW, still waiting for you to paypal me that extra 5% of your salary since you don't mind paying more in taxes. You hate money, we get it.
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It's actually dramatically different. If I'm a 'bit slow' apparently I'm still able to easily figure out she wasn't offering Medicare for all and you weren't. What does it say that you can't seem to keep up mentally with people you think are 'slow'?

lol. If you aren't going to put any thought into what you write about public policy at least try to put some thought into your insults. They're embarrassing.
 
eskimospy said:
It's actually dramatically different. If I'm a 'bit slow' apparently I'm still able to easily figure out she wasn't offering Medicare for all and you weren't. What does it say that you can't seem to keep up mentally with people you think are 'slow'?

lol. If you aren't going to put any thought into what you write about public policy at least try to put some thought into your insults. They're embarrassing.
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Universal Healthcare and Medicare are very similar in that taxes are paying for just about full coverage. You really are slow today.
 
eskimospy said:
Lol absolutely not. If you think what Hillary is proposing is very similar to Medicare you're frankly an idiot.
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I didn't mention what hillary is proposing, she is the idiot spouting "universal healthcare for all!" without discussing how she'll fund it without raising taxes. The Buffet rule and raising taxes on the 1% aren't going to generate the funds necessary, she is a shill.
 
SP33Demon said:
I didn't mention what hillary is proposing, she is the idiot spouting "universal healthcare for all!" without discussing how she'll fund it without raising taxes. The Buffet rule and raising taxes on the 1% aren't going to generate the funds necessary, she is a shill.
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Go back and read your own posts. It is amusing to watch you tie yourself up in knots because you are incapable of admitting you said something stupid.

I welcome a discussion of how people will pay for things though. Let's talk Trump's tax plan. Lol. 🙂
 
eskimospy said:
Go back and read your own posts. It is amusing to watch you tie yourself up in knots because you are incapable of admitting you said something stupid.

I welcome a discussion of how people will pay for things though. Let's talk Trump's tax plan. Lol. 🙂
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Don't deflect from your hero shillary. Explain how she's going to fund "Universal Healthcare for all" using only the buffet rule and a 4% tax on the rich. That's not enough. She's the only dipshit spouting this crap without being honest. You don't see Trump making such claims, he's not low IQ like shillary.
 
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