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Many US Kids confused by equals sign

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Leros said:
I read that at one school, the kids were being taught multiplication tables for single digit numbers and then being taught the FOIL method to "simply" multiplying higher digit numbers.
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...And whats wrong with those methods? How would you teach it better.
 
zerocool84 said:
This has to do with the teachers just making it easy for the kids to pass the tests so the teachers look good cus as we all know, if you have a high number of failures, you're job is gone.
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There's a lot of teachers out there that don't give a damn about the kids. An awful lot. I had a lot of teachers like that. It's a long and complicated story. Let's just say I'd probably be one of those kids who was left aside had my parents not cared.

I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all approach to teaching kids. If that were true, you could just let the TV teach them. Assuming I can afford it when I have kids, they're definitely going to private school.
 
The textbooks they use for math in primary schools are terrible these days. I think the text books try to appeal to the kids who usually struggle in math, but they end up confusing everyone instead. In the last year or two parents in Seattle banded together to try and get rid of these textbooks because 1, they saw that it didn't teach their children well and 2, they didn't understand the textbooks much at all either.
 
No one has tried to explain the misconception? I'm guessing the misconception in the US is that "=" means it's time to do the work to find the answer. In the case of 4+3+2=( )+2. , (I'm guessing) some students think the equal sign means to go ahead and add up 4, 3, and 2, getting 9.
 
Ben90 said:
...And whats wrong with those methods? How would you teach it better.
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Its one of these things where they teach them how to multiply two digit numbers, conclude that is sufficient. Give these kids a 3 digit number and they don't know what to do.
 
Leros said:
Its one of these things where they teach them how to multiply two digit numbers, conclude that is sufficient. Give these kids a 3 digit number and they don't know what to do.
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Oh, you did a bad job conveying that earlier. Maybe I am just not smart enough for your private school education.
 
DrPizza said:
No one has tried to explain the misconception? I'm guessing the misconception in the US is that "=" means it's time to do the work to find the answer. In the case of 4+3+2=( )+2. , (I'm guessing) some students think the equal sign means to go ahead and add up 4, 3, and 2, getting 9.
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That's exactly what the author said. I don't see a problem with that -- it seems a reasonable interpretation, until it's been drilled into you that there is more strict usage, which I recall happening around the time when we learned to solve algebraic equations or write proofs -- much later than grade 6 in my experience.

The equal sign is used in different ways even professionally. To mean equal in the C programming language, you must remember to write "==". So the notion that a symbol has only one specific correct interpretation is itself invalid.

Besides, if this was a real problem, I think we'd have many here having trouble with that equation as well.

To me the entire study, as are many, is a yawnfest of stating the obvious -- when you drill students that = means one thing, and don't let them guess the meaning by seeing it in solving simple arithmetic, they interpret it differently.

http://www.coe.tamu.edu/~rcapraro/Publications/Capraro_CI_Equal_Sign.pdf

What's more interesting to me is a parallel with an interview recently re-transcribed, wherein Dijsktra describes a similar difference between European and American programmers.

http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2010/8/96632-an-interview-with-edsger-w-dijkstra/fulltext
 
I do feel that we should identify earlier on which kids are going to go to college, teach give them a classic education, and for the other 50% of kids, teach them more practical things, trade skills, basic finances, things they'll actually use in life.

Our education is inefficient on so many levels it's unreal. How many mechanics, carpenters, factory workers, etc.. do you know that need 3-4 years of English, Advanced Algebra etc...

By the time they're 19, most of that stuff is already forgotten.
 
Well I heard on the radio the other day that PG County in Maryland isn't requiring kids to learn multiplication tables or spelling/vocab anymore. Welcome to the new generation of dumbasses.
 
Ben90 said:
Oh, you did a bad job conveying that earlier. Maybe I am just not smart enough for your private school education.
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I went to public school and I got what he was saying. *shrug*

I agree too. We never touched FOIL until algebra I in middle school. We learned straight multiplication.

1
25
x12
(1)50
+250
300
 
Leros said:
Have you seen the methods they're trying to teach elementary kids how to do math? Instead of teaching them how to do it normally (which is apparently too hard), they're teaching them all sorts of tricks. These kids have no concept of what they're actually trying to accomplish. Its no wonder they don't know what an equal sign means.
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thats a fact. my son does know his math and i have been quizzing him on the times table all summer so he would be a bit on his game when he starts the 6th grade next week. and he DOES KNOW what a damn equal sign is.

when he was in the 2nd grade his school started using some stupid ass math teaching program that i and my wife had no clue of what the fuck it was. it was something to do with rods and something that i cant remember. i even posted it in OT asking for help because i know there are a few teachers in here and none of them knew WTF it was either.

the problem is school districts buying into some new fangled off the shelf "teaching program". and that is exactly what that rods shit was. my wife and I raised hell because how could we help him with his homework when we didnt even know what it was he was suppose to be doing..... we weren't the only parents who raised hell about that and it was scrapped half way through the school year.
 
dennilfloss said:
I learned

25
x12
______
***50
+*25*
______
300
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Same thing, slightly different syntax. I added in the carries (as best I could and didn't space with *s. We were also taught to actually "bring down the zero(s)" for each step and write them in as opposed to just spacing the numbers.
 
I learned

25
x12
______
***50
+*25*
______
300
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Gee, well. I learned:

100x12 = 1200
1200/4 = 300

Have you seen the methods they're trying to teach elementary kids how to do math? Instead of teaching them how to do it normally (which is apparently too hard), they're teaching them all sorts of tricks. These kids have no concept of what they're actually trying to accomplish. Its no wonder they don't know what an equal sign means.
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A main problem seems to be that tests and exams don't test problem-solving skill, which is really what maths is. Instead they test how well you can rote-learn examples and use a calculator. That's all well and good, but there comes a point where a calculator just doesn't cut it anymore. What happens then?

Shens. Kids learn arithmetic before they learn algebra.
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I didn't, actually. My parents were determined that I learn maths with symbols instead of numbers, and I only put in the numbers later.
 
irishScott said:
Same thing, slightly different syntax. I added in the carries (as best I could and didn't space with *s. We were also taught to actually "bring down the zero(s)" for each step and write them in as opposed to just spacing the numbers.
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I only wrote *s here to fill spaces so as to show the different spacing for each row, which is what we were taught to do. Just because I wasn't sure the numbers would line up properly in the post.
 
Why are people calling shens on this? The study explicitly says that children in other countries did not have this problem. It's not a problem of study methodology since children in some countries had a clear understand of what = means. In other countries, children didn't quite understand it.

I'm curious about this foil thing. I didn't think anyone would do that when using numbers.
25 x 12 = (20x10) + (20x2) + (5x10) + (5x2)
=200 + 40 + 50 + 10
=300

Not bad! It seems less error prone than the dennilfloss's way because I don't need to carry any digits, but a lot more numbers need to be added together.
 
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