Manual transmission question.

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Because, when you're sitting behind some moron at a stoplight, and it changes to green, and he's still dicking around putting it in gear, ya wonder, why the fvck did you have it in neutral in the first place? :disgust:

I did that in my 914 because 1st gear's synchro is dead and I couldn't put it in first except when the car is stopped. So I had to come to a complete stop before putting the transmission in first. Every now and again the light would change at just the wrong time and I'd get caught fumbling. I have since learned to double-clutch and heel-toe the downshift into first so I can get it into first without grinding while moving. Nothing quite as good for teaching technique as a temperamental car.

ZV

 

[Ornery]

That was a response to: "I don't know why people argue over inconsequential stuff like this."

Other than getting stuck behind somebody at a light, I don't care how they treat, or drive their car. I didn't have a racing clutch in my old GTO, so it was no problem to keep the clutch in at a light. By God, when that light changed, nobody had to wait for me to go!

 

[SammyBoy]

Originally posted by: zCypher
What is the big concern about the bearrings anyway? Oh no it might wear out a bearring omg! You'd rather wear your brakes out? If you know how to drive, and you keep your car in good shape - either way is just fine. It really is just the 'excessive' use and wear-n-tear that takes a toll on a car. I always leave my car in first at stops and I've never had problems.

Actually... the throw-out bearring in my Camaro is worn out - I can hear the noise when I don't have the clutch pressed down. So now I just ride the clutch when I'm driving at low speeds and can hear the noise - and keep the clutch pressed down when I'm at a stop. My clutch still works just fine. But unless I'm planning on doing burns every day I doubt I'll have a problem with my clutch any time soon, despite the throw-out bearring being worn. So I think I'd rather that happen than have to replace my brakes more often. which reminds me, my brakes are worn too .. damn.

The concern with the bearing is that when you drive a nice car that you bought, why risk harming your car while sitting at a stop light? Also, dumbass, SITTING AT A STOP LIGHT WITH YOUR BRAKES ON DOES NOT WEAR THE BRAKES! AND IF YOU HAD THE CAR IN 1st, NOT IN NEUTRAL, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE BRAKES ON. STUPID.

lol, i just read the rest of your post, and your bearings are bad on the camaro cuz you don't drive properly, yet you still suggest him not leave the car in neutral. I never stop at lights with it still in 1st, holding the clutch in for too long makes me feel irritated and sad. lol..

 

[lupohki]

I break down to like 1500 and then put her in neutral. If I'm the first in line at the light, I try to keep an eye out on the opposing light and put her into first when it turns red. Otherwise, I put her in gear when I see the front cars moving.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: SammyBoy
The concern with the bearing is that when you drive a nice car that you bought, why risk harming your car while sitting at a stop light? Also, dumbass, SITTING AT A STOP LIGHT WITH YOUR BRAKES ON DOES NOT WEAR THE BRAKES! AND IF YOU HAD THE CAR IN 1st, NOT IN NEUTRAL, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE BRAKES ON. STUPID.

lol, i just read the rest of your post, and your bearings are bad on the camaro cuz you don't drive properly, yet you still suggest him not leave the car in neutral. I never stop at lights with it still in 1st, holding the clutch in for too long makes me feel irritated and sad. lol..

You're not harming the car! The life expectancy of the throw-out bearing far exceeds the life expectancy of a clutch. Trying to save wear on the throw-out bearing is like not using your headlights because you don't want to burn out a bulb.

ZV

 

[atom]

LOL I suggest some people go to a parts counter and actually look at the cost of a T/O bearing.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: SammyBoy
The concern with the bearing is that when you drive a nice car that you bought, why risk harming your car while sitting at a stop light? Also, dumbass, SITTING AT A STOP LIGHT WITH YOUR BRAKES ON DOES NOT WEAR THE BRAKES! AND IF YOU HAD THE CAR IN 1st, NOT IN NEUTRAL, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO HAVE THE BRAKES ON. STUPID.

lol, i just read the rest of your post, and your bearings are bad on the camaro cuz you don't drive properly, yet you still suggest him not leave the car in neutral. I never stop at lights with it still in 1st, holding the clutch in for too long makes me feel irritated and sad. lol..

You're not harming the car! The life expectancy of the throw-out bearing far exceeds the life expectancy of a clutch. Trying to save wear on the throw-out bearing is like not using your headlights because you don't want to burn out a bulb.

ZV

I don't agree with you ZV. I engine brake slightly because it's not good on a motor to just idle and I then put the car in neutral.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: atom
LOL I suggest some people go to a parts counter and actually look at the cost of a T/O bearing.

T/O bearing for my car is ~$30, but the labor cost to get to the T/O bearing is $800-$1,000. There are other things to consider. That said, you're not putting enough wear on the T/O bearing for me to worry about it.

ZV

EDIT: And before someone says I should do the work myself, just try getting at the clutch on a Porsche 924/924S/944/944S/944 Turbo/968 without a lift and a dedicated transmission jack. If you don't want to kill yourself after attempting the job, you're a better man than I.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't engine brake (other than keeping it in whatever gear until I feel the revs getting so low it's silly, then I'll take it out and put it in neutral) and I do keep it in neutral at lights, a habit I picked up more from leg-laziness than any concern of the T/O bearing

 

[TrueBlueLS]

I downshift and keep the clutch in at lights. 24,000 miles and no problems.

 

[Jinny]

any difference between clutch engaged in neutral, and clutch disengaged and in gear? (i'm never driven a manual either)

 

[huesmann]

Originally posted by: zCypher
What is the big concern about the bearrings anyway? Oh no it might wear out a bearring omg! You'd rather wear your brakes out? If you know how to drive, and you keep your car in good shape - either way is just fine. It really is just the 'excessive' use and wear-n-tear that takes a toll on a car. I always leave my car in first at stops and I've never had problems.

Brakes are infinitely easier and cheaper to replace than your throwout bearing...

As far as downshifting goes, just learn how to rev-match on the way down through the gears.

 

[huesmann]

Originally posted by: Jinny
any difference between clutch engaged in neutral, and clutch disengaged and in gear? (i'm never driven a manual either)

Clutch engaged in neutral keeps the clutch disc pressed to the flywheel and turning with the flywheel.

Clutch disengaged and in gear keeps pressure plate engaged to the clutch and the spring fingers under pressure. Not sure if the additional wear on the springs is worthy of concern.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: LOLyourFace

Originally posted by: miri
When stopped are you supposed to put the car in neutral and release the clutch and just use the brake? I used to have a 5 spd and at stops I would have the clutch pushed down all the way and have the truck in first gear ready to accelerate. That truck was brand new when I bought it and I sold it 3 years later so I don't know if I did any damage to the clutch. I'm asking because I read somewhere that you are not supposed to keep the clutch pushed down at stops?

i leave it in neutral with the brake pressed. it was confirmed long ago that holding down the clutch for a long period of time (15+ sec) causes the wear on bearings on my thread.
---------


my question in for this thread:
is it better to overshift or undershift? example: When I'm driving about 40 mph, the RPM is perfectly @ 3000 in 3rd gear and 2000 if it was in 4th.

at 3000, the engine is loud in my ears (but then again im really anal about cars being quiet) so I want to go into 4th gear.
at 2000, the engine has that Slight 'struggling' feeling but is nice and quite. but i wonder if this is good for the car.

educate me on this.

No!

NEVER lug your engine on purpose. Shift at the correct time. Christ. If the engine is loud at 3000RPM, go buy an electric scooter.

 

[Eli]

dp.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Eli
<snip>

my question in for this thread:
is it better to overshift or undershift? example: When I'm driving about 40 mph, the RPM is perfectly @ 3000 in 3rd gear and 2000 if it was in 4th.

at 3000, the engine is loud in my ears (but then again im really anal about cars being quiet) so I want to go into 4th gear.
at 2000, the engine has that Slight 'struggling' feeling but is nice and quite. but i wonder if this is good for the car.

educate me on this.

No!

NEVER lug your engine on purpose. Shift at the correct time. Christ. If the engine is loud at 3000RPM, go buy an electric scooter.

Dude, I'm sure it's fine! Lugging is not good, but if you can maintain your 40 MPH cruise with LIGHT throttle at 2000 RPM, it's not lugging, it's FINE! Shift bach down to 3rd to accelerate, but cruise in 4th gear to save gas AND engine wear.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Eli

my question in for this thread:
is it better to overshift or undershift? example: When I'm driving about 40 mph, the RPM is perfectly @ 3000 in 3rd gear and 2000 if it was in 4th.

at 3000, the engine is loud in my ears (but then again im really anal about cars being quiet) so I want to go into 4th gear.
at 2000, the engine has that Slight 'struggling' feeling but is nice and quite. but i wonder if this is good for the car.

educate me on this.

No!

NEVER lug your engine on purpose. Shift at the correct time. Christ. If the engine is loud at 3000RPM, go buy an electric scooter.

Dude, I'm sure it's fine! Lugging is not good, but if you can maintain your 40 MPH cruise with LIGHT throttle at 2000 RPM, it's not lugging, it's FINE! Shift bach down to 3rd to accelerate, but cruise in 4th gear to save gas AND engine wear.[/quote]If you lug your engine to save engine wear your are misaken.

He is saying that he likes to shift prematurely, and that is not good for your engine if it lugs.

 

[Eli]

I swear to God I'm the only one having DP problems..

 

[Vic]

From someone who's driven manuals for almost 20 years:

Always put the transmission in neutral with the clutch out when waiting at a stoplight. Leaving the clutch in gear with the clutch in causes excessive wear on the throw-out bearing (device which activates the clutch) and also the pressure plate fingers and possibly the clutch disc itself (depending on clutch adjustment). It shouldn't take you more than a second to put the car into 1st and pull off.
Never "ride" in gear with the clutch in, for the same reasons as above. Put it in neutral with the clutch out if you have to. You shouldn't do that either because, as it won't damage your car, it is illegal in many states (because you're not "in control" of the car while it is in neutral). You should decelerate the car down in gear, smoothly and easily downshifting at low rpms. Done properly, downshifting should be no more harmful than upshifting. Modern cars have such good brakes that downshifting into 2nd is unnecessary when stopping in a straight line, though you should still downshift into 2nd when needed for cornering.
Never downshift into 1st while moving faster than 10mph (and while moving at all should be avoided if possible).
Never "slam" or force gears. Feel each gear in. If it won't go in, then double-cluth (clutch out, then back in), and try again.
Don't shift too early or "bog" the engine. Not only does it ruin performance, but it's bad for gas mileage and can damage your crank and rod bearings. Shift each gear at the appropriate time and rpm as needed for the situation.

 

[Ornery]

"Always put the transmission in neutral with the clutch out when waiting at a stoplight. Leaving the clutch in gear with the clutch in causes excessive wear on the throw-out bearing (device which activates the clutch) and also the pressure plate fingers and possibly the clutch disc itself (depending on clutch adjustment). It shouldn't take you more than a second to put the car into 1st and pull off."

Fvck that. Like ZV said, it ain't gonna wear out before the clutch, and WILL be replaced when the clutch is. These fvcktards do take at least a second to put the GD thing in gear. That's probably two people in line who won't make the light, because some lazy worm can't hold the clutch in, or is worried about the damn 2 bit bearing.

 

[mrCide]

my 986S (zem) has a nice sporty clutch, pretty stiff and springs back, there's no way i'm keeping that sucker down while i'm at a light. I go into neutral.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Fvck that. Like ZV said, it ain't gonna wear out before the clutch, and WILL be replaced when the clutch is. These fvcktards do take at least a second to put the GD thing in gear. That's probably two people in line who won't make the light, because some lazy worm can't hold the clutch in, or is worried about the damn 2 bit bearing.

Oh please....

First, you drive autos.
Second, I usually put it back in gear and pull off before everyone else at light. The way I drive, if I'm in front, I'm long gone.
Third, riding the clutch in will damage the throw-out bearing, which will lead to early clutch slippage and failure. I learned this from personal experience many years ago.

Where the hell is Roger?

 

[Ornery]

Who said anything about riding the clutch?

I used to drive a manual, which is EXACTLY why I drive automatics! I notice bikers are no better. GD light's green and they're dicking around finding first... DAMN!

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: LOLyourFace
my question in for this thread:
is it better to overshift or undershift? example: When I'm driving about 40 mph, the RPM is perfectly @ 3000 in 3rd gear and 2000 if it was in 4th.

at 3000, the engine is loud in my ears (but then again im really anal about cars being quiet) so I want to go into 4th gear.
at 2000, the engine has that Slight 'struggling' feeling but is nice and quite. but i wonder if this is good for the car.

educate me on this.

I've always been told its worse to "lug" your engine then rev it some. 40 in 4th @ 2000 sounds like my old tranny. New one I'm turning 3800 or so doing 80 in 5th. Anyhow, no problem either way I suppose. My parents "lug" and their cars drive like new 10 years later so go figure. Obviously you're not bothered by the lack of power so.....

 

[Sundog]

I engine brake all the time in my truck, especially when hauling a load of wood in the bed and in the trailer. I make sure not to over rev the engine. If I used the brakes the entire time, I would be doing brake maint. a lot more than I do now.