Man's death not caused by Taser

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Point++

But training would lead the police to act as they did.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Tasers are less lethel weapons. They're not their to keep cops from having to get their hands dirty at the expense of whatever % of people will die from them. They're suposed to replace lethel weapons. If a cop wouldn't use a lethel weapon in a situation then they shouldn't be using a taser either. Is anyone in here willing to claim that the cop would have pulled a gun and used it on a man with a head injury sitting in his car without any keys? This guy would be alive if tasers didn't exist. Tasers save lives too. I'm sure there has been many more people who pulled knives and would have been shot dead if not for tasers. So, the only solution I see is to make the cop pay dearly for it so less will pull tasers on unarmed men in the future.

1) You couldn't be more wrong. If there's a threat of deadly force, there's very few circumstances I could think of in which I'm going to use a Taser over my firearm (unless there's someone else with deadly force as a backup).

2) Oh? Please elaborate on what credentials you have that permit you to diagnose the cause of death over the internet.

 

[jpeyton]

I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

Would you rather be sprayed?

 

[Scarpozzi]

If you ban tasers, more people will die of gunshots from Police. Best advice: If you're going to be a criminal, make sure your heart is healthy enough to take the jolt.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

I guess the taser replaced the choke hold that is now illegal.



MotionMan

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
If you ban tasers, more people will die of gunshots from Police. Best advice: If you're going to be a criminal, make sure your heart is healthy enough to take the jolt.

Plenty of cops are out of shape too, and I don't recall too many dying during Taser qualification..

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

Would you rather be sprayed?

Of course. Your heart is a muscle, too, and it runs on electrical signals just like your legs and arms. I would rather risk a red face and teary eyes than a stopped/irregular heartbeat.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

Would you rather be sprayed?

Of course. Your heart is a muscle, too, and it runs on electrical signals just like your legs and arms. I would rather risk a red face and teary eyes than a stopped/irregular heartbeat.

Let the cops know the next time to fail to comply with their instructions. I am sure they would be more than willing to accommodate you.

MotionMan

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I guess today's police academies educate hordes of limp-wristed officers who can't subdue a person without zapping the shit out of him first.

Would you rather be sprayed?

Of course. Your heart is a muscle, too, and it runs on electrical signals just like your legs and arms. I would rather risk a red face and teary eyes than a stopped/irregular heartbeat.

Not 'just like' your legs and arms, else your heart would stop beating when you slept. Involuntary muscles continue to work (i.e. heart) when you're Tased.

Been there, done that...and OC is worse.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Using a taser repeatedly on a person suffering from a possible head injury or other medical condition just doesn't seem like a good idea, regardless of how resistant the person might be.

 

[ViviTheMage]

oh well, dont NOT listen to a copper then.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Using a taser repeatedly on a person suffering from a possible head injury or other medical condition just doesn't seem like a good idea, regardless of how resistant the person might be.

There is a difference between "repeatedly" and three times over a period of time.

Reread the bolded part of my statement above in response to the bolded part of your quote.

MotionMan

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Using a taser repeatedly on a person suffering from a possible head injury or other medical condition just doesn't seem like a good idea, regardless of how resistant the person might be.

There is a difference between "repeatedly" and three times over a period of time.

Reread the bolded part of my statement above in response to the bolded part of your quote.

MotionMan

Agreed that the article doesn't state over what time period the tasing was administered, so it's difficult to say whether it would qualify as "repeatedly" or not. However, I just fail to believe that using a taser multiple times on a 59-year-old man who's suffered a potential head injury, which in many instances will cause disorientation and potential for lashing out, is the best way to subdue him so that he might obtain the necessary medical attention.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Using a taser repeatedly on a person suffering from a possible head injury or other medical condition just doesn't seem like a good idea, regardless of how resistant the person might be.

There is a difference between "repeatedly" and three times over a period of time.

Reread the bolded part of my statement above in response to the bolded part of your quote.

MotionMan

Agreed that the article doesn't state over what time period the tasing was administered, so it's difficult to say whether it would qualify as "repeatedly" or not. However, I just fail to believe that using a taser multiple times on a 59-year-old man who's suffered a potential head injury, which in many instances will cause disorientation and potential for lashing out, is the best way to subdue him so that he might obtain the necessary medical attention.

Assuming "Pretty please" didn't work, what would you suggest short of tasing or shooting?

MotionMan

 

[jpeyton]

Were there "massive" police department death tolls before tasers existed?

How did they ever survive without their little battery powered toys?

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Were there "massive" police department death tolls before tasers existed?

How did they ever survive without their little battery powered toys?

There are typically less use of force incidents since Tasers have been issued.

Would you rather be hit with an ASP? I wouldn't.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Maybe they forgot he wasn't a criminal? They were there because someone thought the guy needed medical care, not to arrest him. I have no problem with the police using a taser on a criminal who refuses to comply. Using a taser on a guy who is apparently already suffering from a medical issue seems illogical to me.

 

[hellokeith]

Cops should just go back to shooting-to-kill.. liberals would be so much happier.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Were there "massive" police department death tolls before tasers existed?

How did they ever survive without their little battery powered toys?

They used now-outlawed chokeholds and tried-and-true deadly force.

I would agree to ban tasers if the cops could start using chokeholds again.

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: spidey07
Here's a novel idea, do what the cop says and you won't get tazed. Don't pull a weapon on them or try to run them over and you won't get shot either. Brilliant!

I know this is really hard for some people to understand. But it really isn't that difficult.

"Deputies asked Haake to get some medical attention, but he refused, Barta said."
That's the guy's crucial mistake right there, NOT the police. Don't do what they say, get the taze.

If they thought he was unable to drive due to a head injury, then perhaps they shouldn't have expected him to act rationally?

Maybe they forgot to say pretty please?

At some point the cops have to make a decision as to what level of force is required to obtain compliance. If the guy with the head injury (or the drunk) reacts to the cops with enough resistance (force), then he probably going to get tased. It is not like the cops are going to say. "Well, he is putting up too much of a fight. Let's leave." Eventually, the cops are going to obtain compliance.

BTW, in every "excess force by taser" video I have ever seen, the cops have warned the "victim" a number of times that, if they did not comply, they were going to get tased. It really should come as no surprise to the "victim" when he gets tased. This is even true for Mr. "Don't tase me, bro".

MotionMan

Maybe they forgot he wasn't a criminal? They were there because someone thought the guy needed medical care, not to arrest him. I have no problem with the police using a taser on a criminal who refuses to comply. Using a taser on a guy who is apparently already suffering from a medical issue seems illogical to me.

We do not know nearly enough about this case to make a call about it. Perhaps the guy, in his mentally disturbed state, was correctly deemed by the cops, to be a danger to himself or others and the cops decided they had to take control of him.

Like I said before, cops do not usually respond to such situations be getting in their cars and leaving.

MotionMan

 

[FallenHero]

Once again, it's nice to see a whole ton of people talking out of their ass.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Anyone who says tasers should be banned is an idiot. Sure there are incompetent police officers, andtimes where tasers kill. But have you ever heard of tasers helping police capture a suspect cleanly? No, because it doesnt make for a good story. For every taser death, there 100 people who are subdued with tasers at minimal risk to everyone.

WOW JUST WOW...I am hoping that was sarcasm (my meter is in the shot getting calibrated).

tasers are designed to use when less than deadly force is needed. If you are saying 1 in 100 people dying from this is 'OK' then that is really fucked up. Fortunately the numbers are much lower than that.

The biggest problem with the use of a taser is that cops have found it's a good way to punish someone legally. Most cops today are in it because it's the easiest job out of the ghetto / for the non-ambitious to get. They really need to set better physical standards so the cops can handle situations without getting scared and having to use their batman items.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Most cops today are in it because it's the easiest job out of the ghetto / for the non-ambitious to get. They really need to set better physical standards so the cops can handle situations without getting scared and having to use their batman items.

Maybe in some parts of the country..but here, you need to complete physical exercises at the 50th percentile of the Cooper standards (1.5mi run, situps, pushups and bench press). The Taser provides a way to deploy non-deadly force with less risk of injury than going hands-on or deploying a baton.