HardcoreRobot
Lifer
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
LOL GERMERICA
Actually that does seem to be a common theme in history.
French monarchy -> revolution -> nationalism -> Napoleon
Nintendesert
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2010
- 7,761
- 5
- 0
It should be a mandatory 2 years of public service of some sort. Peace Corps, Marine Corps or something else along those lines. Rebuild the national identity and give every American something they've had in common with their fellow Americans.
WWII gave us this and look at the decades afterwards, good ones. Now you look at Vietnam where the haves were able to get out of service while a lot of have nots were not, it created a disparity that we are still feeling today.
WWII gave us this and look at the decades afterwards, good ones. Now you look at Vietnam where the haves were able to get out of service while a lot of have nots were not, it created a disparity that we are still feeling today.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,576
- 126
If you are going to do this, just use the people who are on the public dole to provide the services. That way, we get something back for the money. The ones that are physically able to work, should work for their benefits. They can do the peace corps type stuff at least.
SaDiZTiKStyLeZ
Lifer
- Apr 12, 2010
- 10,510
- 10
- 0
I tried to enlist but was rejected because of too many major surgeries.
And mandatory wouldn't be a bad idea, if said persons were living off unemployment during whatever time.
And mandatory wouldn't be a bad idea, if said persons were living off unemployment during whatever time.
manimal
Lifer
- Mar 30, 2007
- 13,559
- 8
- 0
mandatory conscription would guarantee no more frivolous wars.
Lets flip this paradigm on its side. What if it was two years of mandatory service. If in wartime you serve. If in peacetime and military numbers are good than most of those people get to go to state schools for two years while doing ROTC and officer training.
Lets flip this paradigm on its side. What if it was two years of mandatory service. If in wartime you serve. If in peacetime and military numbers are good than most of those people get to go to state schools for two years while doing ROTC and officer training.
I have some friends who went into the ROK (Korean) Army lazy & incompetent and after 2 years came out disciplined and mature. It can do some good for a lot of people but I wouldn't make it mandatory.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
- 8,797
- 572
- 126
Instead of just focusing on the military have it be a mandatory civil service and people can choose to either go into the military or work for the state that they are from or some federal service agency.
And provide different incentives. Say for the civil services that a person can choose their term of service is longer than for joining the military.
And provide different incentives. Say for the civil services that a person can choose their term of service is longer than for joining the military.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
- 8,797
- 572
- 126
Instead of just focusing on the military have it be a mandatory civil service and people can choose to either go into the military or work for the state that they are from or some federal service agency.
And provide different incentives. Say for the civil services that a person can choose their term of service is longer than for joining the military.
And provide different incentives. Say for the civil services that a person can choose their term of service is longer than for joining the military.
Why does this matter? People with criminals records and gang affiliations are the ones who need their ass kicked the most.
The less government control, the better.
I served six years in the military and considered this issue many years ago, thinking everyone should go through the difficulty of service as I did.
However, required service is harmful and removes free will. Public or military service is good for people without direction in their life. For people with direction, forced service is a distraction to advancing their life with a severe negative impact on human, social, and economic advancement.
DrPizza introduced the idea of tradesmen apprenticing towards their journeyman's or master's license.
Another example includes brilliant students studying towards their academic degrees wherein much harm can be done to academic and scientific progress by forcing a theoretically oriented person to lead soldiers. A two year break from academic training can cause much to be forgotten at a high expense. Education is expensive. Forcing public service would dispose of that costly investment at a great social cost.
Even those directed towards sports would lose much by taking a two year forced break from their physical training to clean latrines.
Some people are more suited to certain occupations and skills than others. It all depends on what is needed by society. We have entered a scientific age of information and knowledge. There is no need to make soldiers out of everyone.
Edit:
Additionally, career service people whether military or public, feel pride in their service. Society respects them. At least society respects the career military personnel. Forced service would eliminate that personal pride and public respect. This would have a strong detrimental effect on our society.
I served six years in the military and considered this issue many years ago, thinking everyone should go through the difficulty of service as I did.
However, required service is harmful and removes free will. Public or military service is good for people without direction in their life. For people with direction, forced service is a distraction to advancing their life with a severe negative impact on human, social, and economic advancement.
DrPizza introduced the idea of tradesmen apprenticing towards their journeyman's or master's license.
Another example includes brilliant students studying towards their academic degrees wherein much harm can be done to academic and scientific progress by forcing a theoretically oriented person to lead soldiers. A two year break from academic training can cause much to be forgotten at a high expense. Education is expensive. Forcing public service would dispose of that costly investment at a great social cost.
Even those directed towards sports would lose much by taking a two year forced break from their physical training to clean latrines.
Some people are more suited to certain occupations and skills than others. It all depends on what is needed by society. We have entered a scientific age of information and knowledge. There is no need to make soldiers out of everyone.
Edit:
Additionally, career service people whether military or public, feel pride in their service. Society respects them. At least society respects the career military personnel. Forced service would eliminate that personal pride and public respect. This would have a strong detrimental effect on our society.
Last edited:
Worked well for Germany...for a while
Better watch out Canada. That didn't work out so well for Germany's neighbors. We had our trial run against you (Just like Germany in WWI). I think its time for another round
Not a bad idea
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
We need to stop supporting people so they fend for themselves. We make things too comfy for people that say they don't have the means, and therefore there is no ambition. US citizens also have to get rid of their sense of entitlement.
THOSE are the reasons the US is in a brain drain state right now.
THOSE are the reasons the US is in a brain drain state right now.
It would work well with civilized societies... which most of America unfortunately is no longer.
Ghiedo27
Senior member
- Mar 9, 2011
- 403
- 0
- 0
People in desperate situations will take desperate measures. Ignoring the people struggling doesn't make the problem go away even if you believe there's no moral or ethical obligation to help the less fortunate.
Obviously there are people abusing the current system, but America should be a land of opportunity. I think the trick is finding good ways to invest in people while recouping the cost fairly.
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
I read a report somewhere that as much as 1/3 of the people on government assistance may be fraudulent in some way. There's also a pattern of families being on assistance---mom is on it, then shows her kids how to get on it, etc.
My wife was a police officer in a large city some time back, and she would always bring up that everyone in the inner city she would arrest would be on some form of SSI. They would say things like "I'm on it because I can't read", or "My arm don't work." However that didn't stop them from learning the chemical makeup of meth and getting in a fist fight with the guy that didn't pay.
Ghiedo27
Senior member
- Mar 9, 2011
- 403
- 0
- 0
People take opportunities when they see them. I wonder what percentage of businesses pay less taxes (one way or another) than they should be? There should absolutely be a good filter for people who aren't looking to get out on there own.
But on the flip side, my brother had brain / spinal cancer with cardiac complications 2 years ago and was quite disabled and had a heck of a time jumping through hoops to get the kind of assistance he needed to get working again. It's not like there aren't people in the system trying to weed people out.
That's why I advocate investing in people in a way that recoups the expense. Less effort required to pick people to give a handout to and more money feeding into the system to give back to the community.
But on the flip side, my brother had brain / spinal cancer with cardiac complications 2 years ago and was quite disabled and had a heck of a time jumping through hoops to get the kind of assistance he needed to get working again. It's not like there aren't people in the system trying to weed people out.
That's why I advocate investing in people in a way that recoups the expense. Less effort required to pick people to give a handout to and more money feeding into the system to give back to the community.
I'd rather give help to people that don't deserve than deny help to those that need it.
Assume you have 1M people that actually need help. I think it is better to help 1.33M than it is to only help 0.66M. Obviously in a perfect system you'd help exactly that 1M but that is unrealistic you either make it easier and have people abuse it or harder and people slip through.
It would be nice to have folks work for their benefits but I can't see a feasible way to actually do that.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter