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Man wielding pipe outside Carl's Jr shot by officers (video)

sygyzy

sygyzy

Lifer
Video on Youtube

This happened in my home town (I haven't lived there for over a decade but know the area well). Reports say he was shot 5 times then an additional 5 times as he fell. What's curious to me is how clumsy the officer with the pepper spray is. If you watch him, he came up to the suspect, sprayed him, then almost tripped as he walked backwards and was putting the spray away, while accessing his weapon. It was almost like he was saying "Hey hold on while I put this away and draw my gun."

At that point the suspect came towards him and the K-9 officer shot him.
 
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Almost looks as if the suspect was about to raise the weapon to attack one of the officers.

I could understand shooting him once, waiting for a reaction, and then opening fire again but the officer seemed as if he never stopped pulling the trigger. Reminds me of the first time I shot a weapon, after the hesitant first pull of the trigger, I didn't stop shooting until I ran out of bullets.

I'm sure the officer was reacting vs thinking and in fear of their own life one will do what they have to but it seems like overkill to me. Interested to see what the investigation into the officer yields.
 
I definitely feel like the suspect was going to attack the pepper spraying officer. I felt this left the K-9 officer no choice. I do think the second volley of shots was excessive.
 
ehh, on the fence about this one... the spray didn't work, guy went at him... I understand the first 5 consecutive shots. He went down at that point. Then a pause and second round of another 5 shots is where I think the line got crossed.
 
darkxshade said:
ehh, on the fence about this one... the spray didn't work, guy went at him... I understand the first 5 consecutive shots. He went down at that point. Then a pause and second round of another 5 shots is where I think the line got crossed.
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To be fair, he was most likely dead after the first 5. Not sure there's a line at that point.
 
You don't shoot to hurt, you shoot to kill. Who knows what other goodies that guy may be carrying.

It sure did look like he was going to take a swing at that officer with the sledge hammer (?), I think the officer that was involved in the shooting acted correctly in this case.
 
there's a thread in p&n already.

the second volley/round of shots, was that from the same officer? or from the one that was pepper spraying before?

most definitely a justified shooting, though the second round might've been unnecessary and overkill if the suspect was already on the floor.

in hindsight they could've tried letting the dog loose on him once he came outside, might've ended less lethally.
 
RedRooster said:
To be fair, he was most likely dead after the first 5. Not sure there's a line at that point.
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That's not the point... in fact if we were to assume he died after the first volley then that makes the case stronger that the 2nd volley was excessive.

But then again, heat of the moment, slow reaction time, inexperience... could be that which is why I'm on the fence. Unless they're really stupid enough to actually do that on purpose in front of so many witnesses. The suspect did make a go at him. I think the pause and 2nd volley was just from the other cop with the spray since his gun was holstered and I'll certainly understand if he wanted to be sure since it's his life that was in danger. If both volleys from the same cop with the K9, then meh.
 
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There were two officers who fired. K9 fired first, pepper spray fired second. And I think it's a little excessive to call that a sledge hammer. I think it's at best a metal pipe and at worst electrical conduit.
 
I just was able to watch it with sound for the first time:

The second five shots sure seemed to come from a different source than the first source (K-9)

In any event, the guy was probably dead after the first 5 shots (if not sooner).

MotionMan
 
RedRooster said:
To be fair, he was most likely dead after the first 5. Not sure there's a line at that point.
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Think if I had done the same thing. If a guy broke into my house and I shot him until he fell, and then unloaded another clip into him, I'd be tried for murder. I don't have a problem with the cops killing him, but I do have a problem with them pumping extra holes into a corpse.
 
Joseph F said:
Think if I had done the same thing. If a guy broke into my house and I shot him until he fell, and then unloaded another clip into him, I'd be tried for murder.
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Nope. There would be too much reasonable doubt as to which shot(s) killed the intruder. Your expert would argue the first one or two did it and that the rest were "harmless".

MotionMan
 
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http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-monterey-park-carls-jr-ois,0,3618749.story

The man then came toward the officers and swung the bar twice, according to the news release.
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The video does not show the man actually swing the metal bar at officers.
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A woman sitting across the street in another fast food restaurant was hurt by shattered glass believed to have been caused by a stray bullet.
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saw the video. he didn't swing. its not an axe. police had a doggie. they could've handled this differently. excessive force found.
 
Not to derail but this video and over-shooting discussion reminds me of somethign that happened where I live. A man was shot over 60 times, he had killed an officer and a K9 and was on the run. They tracked him down and put over 60 holes into him when they found him.

The sheriff of my area is on record saying that, "We shot him 60 times because we ran out of ammo."
 
MotionMan said:
I have read that cops are taught to shoot to kill, but to only shoot as a last resort, for example, if another person is being threatened.

I think this is justified on both counts.

MotionMan
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I have a friend who is a police officer and about 15 years ago he was put into a situation that forced him to shoot someone who had a gun in his hand. I was the only person he talked to about the incident at the time. He told me that he fired three times. He also told me that he was trained in the academy to fire at least three shots to increase the probability of a hit that will stop the bad guy. Of those three shots he fired he only hit the guy once. Once was enough to kill him, but if he had missed with that bullet the guy might have killed him.
 
Hard to tell but the pepper spray guy flinched when the ax started to move forcing the other officer to save him.
 
sygyzy said:
Video on Youtube

This happened in my home town (I haven't lived there for over a decade but know the area well). Reports say he was shot 5 times then an additional 5 times as he fell. What's curious to me is how clumsy the officer with the pepper spray is. If you watch him, he came up to the suspect, sprayed him, then almost tripped as he walked backwards and was putting the spray away, while accessing his weapon. It was almost like he was saying "Hey hold on while I put this away and draw my gun."

At that point the suspect came towards him and the K-9 officer shot him.
Click to expand...

If you approach a cop while winding back to swing a crow bar, you get shot. Don't think that's a surprise to anyone.
 
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