Man wants to to tape daughters recital.

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jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: ultra laser
LOL @ Americans. You guys can't even film your kids dancing at school! And you think you're free! Hahahahahaha

Yes, it does give one pause.

Can we as taxpayers go into a school supply closet and take all the pens, paper, stalplers, and supplies we want? Do we as taxpayers have the right to disrupt a school football game by running onto the field? Do we as taxpayers have the right use school grounds for whatever purpose we desire whenever we want?

No, no, and uh, no. Absolute freedom is not freedom at all, it's anarchy.
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
0
0
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: ultra laser
LOL @ Americans. You guys can't even film your kids dancing at school! And you think you're free! Hahahahahaha

Yes, it does give one pause.

Can we as taxpayers go into a school supply closet and take all the pens, paper, stalplers, and supplies we want? Do we as taxpayers have the right to disrupt a school football game by running onto the field? Do we as taxpayers have the right use school grounds for whatever purpose we desire whenever we want?

No, no, and uh, no. Absolute freedom is not freedom at all, it's anarchy.

And this relates to taking a photo of your kid how?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Ldir
-snip-
So what? Was it a public school? Was his daughter performing? He had every right to record his daughter performing in a school related event on public property.

I do not personally know the facts. However, I will mention it is possible that this group had to pay to use the school property, and that this may not be a "school function"..

In my district, the school board is now discussing whether to rent out the facilities on weekend.

Otherwise, I have been involved in a non-profit childrens theatre (drama/plays etc), we had to pay for use of the school's auditorium. Of course we could charge for tickets etc. I also think it would have been within our rights to dictate any terms of filming.

I suppose the question is whether this is a school function or not. And I'm just pointing out that not all functions with school-aged kids, held at a school, are school functions.

Fern
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,763
10,356
146
Originally posted by: BoberFett
As a taxpayer, he is part owner of everything that happens in that school and has a right to videotape any goddamn thing he wants there.

No, he doesn't. What a ridiculous statement.



 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: Thump553
This thread should be more correctly titled: Obnoxious crank tries to impose his own perception of rules on society, goes to jail.

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for that clown. He knew the rules prohibited him taping. There's a valid reason for this-it's extremely disruptive to have scads of parents blocking the isles and views trying to videotape their little darlings. Instead the school had one permitted taper, and you could obtain a tape from them.

So this jerk's response is to make a complete spectacle of himself and cause violence. What a spoiled brat-and I don't mean the child.

How about we gain control back of our society. When I was in school in the 80's parents could tape their kids at school events.
Today, they are not allowed to do so so the school and a private company can make a buck??? That is what's wrong with society. Greed is the problem. I'm going to make it a point to start shit when my kid is older. My lawyer will love me because his cut will be huge every time I challenge something stupid like this. So I can not tape a my own child performing in Joseph and the Technicolor Dream Coat, yet a private company can tape it and sell it for profit? wtf.
That's not morally right. And no the school can not do whatever the please with my child when at a school function. That would be like saying it's ok to force a child to perform in a religious act that they do not practice.
If you want to squelch away your freedoms, move to England. They're doing a damn good job of it.
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I wonder how much money the school gets via the sale of the DVDs.

If they are using the money to help offset the cost of the recital and such then I could understand the rule.

My Nephew plays varsity soccer, if I go to some of his games I would expect to pay a ticket fee. Can I jump up and down and bitch and moan that I shouldn't have to pay because my taxes fund the school??

More from the link
Larsen had just paid $8 for his ticket when he was told he would not be allowed to videotape the event - a warning reinforced by several signs. Larsen said something like ?I paid my money. I'll do as I please,? refusing to leave his camera at the door before pushing his way into the gym.

Larsen's ?belligerent? response drew the attention of off-duty Fort Wayne Police Sgt. Allen Glock, who had been hired by Northrop to provide security for the event. The 26-year veteran warned Larsen he would be removed from the school if he taped the competition.

?We'll see about that,? Larsen replied, questioning Glock's authority to arrest him.

It wasn't long before FWPD Patrolman Juan Barrientes became aware of the growing dispute. Barrientes wasn't working that morning; his daughter was at Northrop to compete with the Garrett High School show choir.

Glock ordered Larsen to leave the school, but Larsen instead sat down in the gym between his wife and another woman. That's when Barrientes placed Larsen in a headlock, dragged him backward out of the chair and down to the floor.
Guy is an ass, I am sure he is a Ron Paul supporter too, has the same "screw you I can do whatever I want" attitude.

Sure but once you pay your ticket fee you can tape your kid playing soccer. Atleast that is how it happens where I live.

Edit- If you are worried about ruining the event then do like most the places I have seen and setup a specific area for people to tape the event from. Forcing people to pay if they want a tape of their child's performance is stupid.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
279
126
Some school official is getting pie in their face from this scandal for sure. I'd love to see the twit that came up with this scam.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: BoberFett
As a taxpayer, he is part owner of everything that happens in that school and has a right to videotape any goddamn thing he wants there.

No, he doesn't. What a ridiculous statement.

If he's allowed to watch it, why isn't he allowed to videotape it?

Is he allowed to remember it fondly afterward or will his mind be scrubbed of the memory in order to ensure he has to buy the DVD?
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
279
126
The school cannot rightly claim copyright to the works. Perhaps the teacher is the author of material in the performance and in reality this is the reason for the sweet deal with the video maker.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Guy is an ass, I am sure he is a Ron Paul supporter too, has the same "screw you I can do whatever I want" attitude.

:roll: Good job, PJ.
 

William Larsen

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2009
16
0
0
To clear up a few points:
Every person has the right to photograph anything on public property. However, after taking the photo or image, you may not be able to sell it. Prior to selling the image, you first must have the consent and release of anyone identifiable in the image.

The copyright act of 1976 states that any performer who sings, dances or choreographer a production is automatically copyrighted as soon as it is performed. This protects the performers property.

Northorp High School sponsored the show choir invitational. They charged nothing for the building since it was a school event. They did not have signed consent from any performer. Huntington Media Services contracted with Northrop's show choir director. The contract does not specify any payment to Northrop, but that Northrop guarentees the videographer a minimum of $3500 in sales. The DVD's were sold for $20 for evening show and $25 dollars for a school performance. The Videographer knew he was to have signed consent and release, but since few people realize they need them, they simply look the other way.

The school states in depositions that they do not care if a parent videotapes or photographs on school property. I have done so four previous times.

The off duty officer was hired by the schoolf or security. He never identified his name, badge numer, did not order me to leave. The assistant principal states that we were not loud, that I only asked questions concerning consent and release. A second off duty officer who was there watching his daughter made the decision to choke me and drage me out. He never identified himself. The four witnesses to the even state it happend in less than two seconds.

Federal courts have routinely ruled photography is free speech. A photo is worth a thousand words. In this case, I was not rude. The only ones who said I was rude was the off duty cop who could not answer what law prohibited me from videotaping.

Keep in mind a school rule most conform to both federal and state laws and in my case the Indiana and United States Constitution.

Videographers are the only ones to profit from this. The quality in many cases is poor. In many cases not all the performers can be seen and you find out only after you pay for a DVD.

What they did was pirate personal property for personal gain. It is against the law!

Every person has the right to question the state when the state extends by implication a statute beyond its plain and literal meaning. You have a civil responsibility to question and make sure the state does not take your rights away. You always have the right to question the state. While those men and women in our armed forces are over seas, we need to protect the freedoms here at home so that when they return their freedoms so dearly fought for are not diminished.

William Larsen
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: William Larsen
To clear up a few points:
Every person has the right to photograph anything on public property. However, after taking the photo or image, you may not be able to sell it. Prior to selling the image, you first must have the consent and release of anyone identifiable in the image.

The copyright act of 1976 states that any performer who sings, dances or choreographer a production is automatically copyrighted as soon as it is performed. This protects the performers property.

Northorp High School sponsored the show choir invitational. They charged nothing for the building since it was a school event. They did not have signed consent from any performer. Huntington Media Services contracted with Northrop's show choir director. The contract does not specify any payment to Northrop, but that Northrop guarentees the videographer a minimum of $3500 in sales. The DVD's were sold for $20 for evening show and $25 dollars for a school performance. The Videographer knew he was to have signed consent and release, but since few people realize they need them, they simply look the other way.

The school states in depositions that they do not care if a parent videotapes or photographs on school property. I have done so four previous times.

The off duty officer was hired by the schoolf or security. He never identified his name, badge numer, did not order me to leave. The assistant principal states that we were not loud, that I only asked questions concerning consent and release. A second off duty officer who was there watching his daughter made the decision to choke me and drage me out. He never identified himself. The four witnesses to the even state it happend in less than two seconds.

Federal courts have routinely ruled photography is free speech. A photo is worth a thousand words. In this case, I was not rude. The only ones who said I was rude was the off duty cop who could not answer what law prohibited me from videotaping.

Keep in mind a school rule most conform to both federal and state laws and in my case the Indiana and United States Constitution.

Videographers are the only ones to profit from this. The quality in many cases is poor. In many cases not all the performers can be seen and you find out only after you pay for a DVD.

What they did was pirate personal property for personal gain. It is against the law!

Every person has the right to question the state when the state extends by implication a statute beyond its plain and literal meaning. You have a civil responsibility to question and make sure the state does not take your rights away. You always have the right to question the state. While those men and women in our armed forces are over seas, we need to protect the freedoms here at home so that when they return their freedoms so dearly fought for are not diminished.

William Larsen

So what came of the whole thing?
 

TheSkinsFan

Golden Member
May 15, 2009
1,141
0
0
3000 to 4000 attendees... DVD's for $30 each? DVD-R's cost roughly 10 cents each... even less in bulk.

HOLY SHIT! I'm in the wrong line of work!

That said, if it were my daughter, and my/her rights being trampled, I'd probably end up in jail as well.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Bumping a year old thread? Can we get a mod to put this guy in a headlock and get him out of here?

:laugh:
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,486
2,363
136
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bumping a year old thread? Can we get a mod to put this guy in a headlock and get him out of here?

:laugh:

Troll, troll, troll your boat... Since when bumping an old thread is a banable offense? FNE, you're laughable.

Also, in case you didn't notice, guy's nick is exactly the same as the name of the person in the article, and he speaks from first person. If he is indeed the guy who tried to videotape his daughter's performance, I'd be extremely interested to hear what happened after.
 

TheSkinsFan

Golden Member
May 15, 2009
1,141
0
0
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bumping a year old thread? Can we get a mod to put this guy in a headlock and get him out of here?

:laugh:

Troll, troll, troll your boat... Since when bumping an old thread is a banable offense? FNE, you're laughable.

Also, in case you didn't notice, guy's nick is exactly the same as the name of the person in the article, and he speaks from first person. If he is indeed the guy who tried to videotape his daughter's performance, I'd be extremely interested to hear what happened after.

So would I. My guess is that he did a search for his own name in Google, found this thread, and then decided to set the matter straight.

I hope he comes back to let us know of the outcome.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bumping a year old thread? Can we get a mod to put this guy in a headlock and get him out of here?

:laugh:

Troll, troll, troll your boat... Since when bumping an old thread is a banable offense? FNE, you're laughable.

Also, in case you didn't notice, guy's nick is exactly the same as the name of the person in the article, and he speaks from first person. If he is indeed the guy who tried to videotape his daughter's performance, I'd be extremely interested to hear what happened after.

Psstt your knee went off before your brain...
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Originally posted by: Thump553
This thread should be more correctly titled: Obnoxious crank tries to impose his own perception of rules on society, goes to jail.

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for that clown. He knew the rules prohibited him taping. There's a valid reason for this-it's extremely disruptive to have scads of parents blocking the isles and views trying to videotape their little darlings. Instead the school had one permitted taper, and you could obtain a tape from them.

So this jerk's response is to make a complete spectacle of himself and cause violence. What a spoiled brat-and I don't mean the child.

I see you're back from North Korea and have learned their ways well. You will go far, dear comrade.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bumping a year old thread? Can we get a mod to put this guy in a headlock and get him out of here?

:laugh:

Troll, troll, troll your boat... Since when bumping an old thread is a banable offense? FNE, you're laughable.

Also, in case you didn't notice, guy's nick is exactly the same as the name of the person in the article, and he speaks from first person. If he is indeed the guy who tried to videotape his daughter's performance, I'd be extremely interested to hear what happened after.

Better get your sarcasm meter checked. Looks like it might need batteries.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,301
6,640
126
I want to video tape movies I go to. I paid to get in and watch. Why can't my camera watch. I also want to tape recitals. I want to go up to the front row and block everybody's view as I do. I want to go up on the stage and vid little feet. I want to stand on your chair to get a better shot. I want to lean over in front of you. I want 500 other assholes doing video too, I want to use my flash. I I I I I want everything to be about me.

They hire a pro so folks can watch the show without the distraction of a million parents trying to get the shots they want of their kids. It is chaos in recitals if they don't.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Until people realize that public schools own their children, they'll continue to act like beligerent adults with some romantic fashion of freedom and justice. I don't know why they haven't gotten the picture yet, it's almost like they have some innate sense of what's right and wrong.

Sarcasm aside, thump has a good point, but these schools shouldn't be monopolizing to for-profit businesses. My daughter was in a dance recittal recently and they wanted THIRTY FVCKING DOLLARS for a DVD of it. You kidding me? I split with a neighbor and burned up a copy for good measure, but if the school will dictate per Thump's reasons, they should be only breaking even, not getting in cahoots with some stupid private business and costing us more.

They actually did let us film ourselves, though, and it was pretty painless. They asked for no flash photography but there was no rabble of adults with camers in isles, standing on seats, etc.

The rabble of adults is probably the reason for the rules. When a theater of people show and they all want to set up a tripod to tape the show, it just does not work. Every one has a video camera these days and probably a big chunk have their own tripod as well. I paid for my a dvd of my daughters dance recital this summer because no taping was allowed, it came out better than I could have done with my camera. Irritating, but a fair trade.