Man wants to to tape daughters recital.

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
The man in question should send a bill for back payment of wages from his daughters performance to the media services company.

Good point. In fact, if his daughter is unpaid the company profiting off her is probably violating child labor laws.

If we're going to follow the laws, let's follow all of them.

 

[jjones]

I'm on the fence about this issue, but it seems apparent that it was handled badly by everyone involved. I have a seven year old daughter and go to her various events and parents (including my wife) filming and photographing can be a real detriment to enjoying the activities.

I don't know, maybe I'm weird but I never understood parents so obsessed with filming and photographing that they forget to take the time to enjoy the experience of just watching their children in their activities. Some of these parents never see anything their child does unless it's through a viewfinder.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Thump553
This thread should be more correctly titled: Obnoxious crank tries to impose his own perception of rules on society, goes to jail.

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for that clown. He knew the rules prohibited him taping. There's a valid reason for this-it's extremely disruptive to have scads of parents blocking the isles and views trying to videotape their little darlings. Instead the school had one permitted taper, and you could obtain a tape from them.

So this jerk's response is to make a complete spectacle of himself and cause violence. What a spoiled brat-and I don't mean the child.

Fuck that, and fuck you.

He's a taxpayer. He pays for that school. He pays the salaries of the worthless administrators who signed the contract with the thieving bastards who claim exclusive film rights and then rape people with exorbitant prices, and he pays the salaries of the fascist pigs who hauled him away.

As a taxpayer, he is part owner of everything that happens in that school and has a right to videotape any goddamn thing he wants there. Government agencies should not be allowed to sign those kind of overarching contracts. He needs to sue, and sue big.

I take it you believe we should consult all 300 million taxpayers on every single decision in regards to every dollar?

No, of course not. So get off your high horse.

Who said anything about consulting everybody? Fact is, the school shouldn't even be allowed to enter into such a contract. Works created by government entities need to be available to all taxpayers, or they shouldn't be done at all.

The only people on high-horses are the assholes in this thread who think that a private entity should exclusive rights to anything paid for with taxes. If they want to profit from recitals, they should start their own children's choir.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: woodie1
$30 for a DVD of your own kid at a school function. That's got to cause a lot of sore feelings. I would be outraged too. Hell, you gotta take out a loan for the yearbooks nowadays.

Hahaha, wait till you get Graduation Photo pricing. I don't remember how much those cost at my High School graduation, but at my college graduation they wanted around $70 for a set of photos.

Yep, I think my granddaughters graduation photo package was just over $100. While I admit they were good quality I think we were shafted. Call me a tightwad.

 

[ProfJohn]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that the people jumping up and down in protest over this don't have kids and don't realize that this is a fairly common practice these days.

1. It eliminates the every parent with a camera trying to film the recital.
2. It helps to generate extra revenue for the school.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that the people jumping up and down in protest over this don't have kids and don't realize that this is a fairly common practice these days.

1. It eliminates the every parent with a camera trying to film the recital.
2. It helps to generate extra revenue for the school.

Common practice or not I doubt the school is receiving that much revenue from this. Someone is, but not the school. Besides, what the hell are my property taxes paying for? It sure isn't good teachers.

 

[ProfJohn]

Ok since no one else had done it I took the time to google around and see what else I could find relating to this story.

This was NOT a school event. It is a yearly competition held at a different school that includes groups from all over the area. The previous year they had 3000 people attend and expected 4000 this year.

The various schools raise money to attend similar to sending your basketball team to a invitational tournament.

This guy did not show up at his schools Christmas concert with a camera, but at another schools yearly event. Schools use these events to raise money to help cover the costs of their programs and so they can send their own school to other events and competitions.

 

[Ramma2]

This was NOT a school event

Well that settles that. This guy was a fool and deserves whatever punishment he gets.

 

[jackschmittusa]

I guess I'm old enough that my frame of reference to such things is out of date.

Back in the day, photos were the only way to record such events. Everybody dragged their Instamatics and Poloroids to such events and I can't ever remember being told no one could photograph, flashes and all. I will say that we seemed to comprise a much more respectful audience in those days compared to later times. It was always coat-and-tie for the guys, and nice dresses for the ladies. We followed the suggested protocols for remaining seated, applause, etc.. By the time my oldest kid graduated high school, we started seeing shorts, halter tops, Hawaiian shirts, and even flip-flops in the crowd. Now, people jump up and scream, applaud, wave their arms, etc. at the most inappropriate times and don't seem to be embarrassed by their behavior. My guess is that nobody seems to think that it is important to teach their kids about decorum appropriate to the venue. Many of these people are adults now and are not teaching another generation. My grandmother usually depended on my parents for transportation to such events, and usually sternly advised all of us kids "Don't make a public spectacle of yourself." I guess those days are gone.

I am in favor of allowing individuals to film at such events.

I sympathize with the entity conducting the events in having to try to control those who cannot control themselves.

I also think the schools miss a great opportunity in not having a high school group from multi-media classes or even the school newspaper do the filming if they want an official record. By filming practice of the event, the results can be critiqued by the teacher and other students in the group to perfect the elements needed to produce a quality product. It should be great training for the students working in a real world environment. Copies of the finished product could be sold to the general public for a nominal fee, with the guarantee that any minor profits might go directly to equipment for the further training of the students.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok since no one else had done it I took the time to google around and see what else I could find relating to this story.

This was NOT a school event. It is a yearly competition held at a different school that includes groups from all over the area. The previous year they had 3000 people attend and expected 4000 this year.

The various schools raise money to attend similar to sending your basketball team to a invitational tournament.

This guy did not show up at his schools Christmas concert with a camera, but at another schools yearly event. Schools use these events to raise money to help cover the costs of their programs and so they can send their own school to other events and competitions.

So what? Was it a public school? Was his daughter performing? He had every right to record his daughter performing in a school related event on public property. It is bad enough schools charge us to see our children perform. It is outrageous they deny parents an opportunity to record it while allowing a business to profit at it. You government apologists make me sick.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Thump553
This thread should be more correctly titled: Obnoxious crank tries to impose his own perception of rules on society, goes to jail.

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for that clown. He knew the rules prohibited him taping. There's a valid reason for this-it's extremely disruptive to have scads of parents blocking the isles and views trying to videotape their little darlings. Instead the school had one permitted taper, and you could obtain a tape from them.

So this jerk's response is to make a complete spectacle of himself and cause violence. What a spoiled brat-and I don't mean the child.

Fuck that, and fuck you.

He's a taxpayer. He pays for that school. He pays the salaries of the worthless administrators who signed the contract with the thieving bastards who claim exclusive film rights and then rape people with exorbitant prices, and he pays the salaries of the fascist pigs who hauled him away.

As a taxpayer, he is part owner of everything that happens in that school and has a right to videotape any goddamn thing he wants there. Government agencies should not be allowed to sign those kind of overarching contracts. He needs to sue, and sue big.

I take it you believe we should consult all 300 million taxpayers on every single decision in regards to every dollar?

No, of course not. So get off your high horse.

That was dumb. Way to miss the point Sparky. They are our children performing. We paid for the school. We pay the salaries of the teachers and administrators. They work for us. They are paid to represent our interests, not some private business that wants to gouge parents.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok since no one else had done it I took the time to google around and see what else I could find relating to this story.

This was NOT a school event. It is a yearly competition held at a different school that includes groups from all over the area. The previous year they had 3000 people attend and expected 4000 this year.

The various schools raise money to attend similar to sending your basketball team to a invitational tournament.

This guy did not show up at his schools Christmas concert with a camera, but at another schools yearly event. Schools use these events to raise money to help cover the costs of their programs and so they can send their own school to other events and competitions.

So what? Was it a public school? Was his daughter performing? He had every right to record his daughter performing in a school related event on public property. It is bad enough schools charge us to see our children perform. It is outrageous they deny parents an opportunity to record it while allowing a business to profit at it. You government apologists make me sick.

I agree.

 

[magomago]

What I'm thinking is that somewhere, in all the forms he signed for her to go to school, in joining whatever program that she did, he signed something saying a) she could be filmed [even i had to have a form allowing or disallowing it by my parents when the newspaper came to our elementary school] for a business b) she/parent waives all compensation rights.

so even if he is in the right (which I think he has every right to do), he legally probably signed away those rights.

on a side note i can KIND of understand the desire for this - at my graduation ceremony, there were so many parents that flooded the bottom floors of the auditorium and blocked all the steps just to film their son or daughter [it was funny watching parents with their P&S angry why their flash didn't illuminate thirty feet away ].
The security tried to disperse and get rid of them, but most people simply ignored them as if they didn't exist. Of course (I actually went to several as well as being in one) there were times I couldn't get out BECAUSE these people were blocking all the spaces. Even some people were almost 'fighting' for a spot and trying to get their son or daughter to stand up, leave their seat, and walk to the bleachers just so they could get close ups even though the kids would have blocked the walking path (lol those were the asian parents ).
So I would be in favor of a guy to do the job while the parents can just sit and relax; but I would want this to be a minimal fee that covers production costs (and honestly i see no real need beyond having a computer with 2-3 burners, and some secretary to just keep burning the same DVD all day; with a pack of dvds costing 20-30 dollars when it isn't on sale...costs shouldn't be very high). 30 dollars for a dvd is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[ProfJohn]

For the record we have no clue what the company was charging for these DVDs.

The $30 amount came from someone with no first hand knowledge of this event.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Ok since no one else had done it I took the time to google around and see what else I could find relating to this story.

This was NOT a school event. It is a yearly competition held at a different school that includes groups from all over the area. The previous year they had 3000 people attend and expected 4000 this year.

The various schools raise money to attend similar to sending your basketball team to a invitational tournament.

This guy did not show up at his schools Christmas concert with a camera, but at another schools yearly event. Schools use these events to raise money to help cover the costs of their programs and so they can send their own school to other events and competitions.

So what? Was it a public school? Was his daughter performing? He had every right to record his daughter performing in a school related event on public property. It is bad enough schools charge us to see our children perform. It is outrageous they deny parents an opportunity to record it while allowing a business to profit at it. You government apologists make me sick.

You are missing the point.

1. If you let everyone record it you ruin the event.
2. If everyone can record it you lose the revenue stream the recording contract provides.
3. Loss of the revenue stream means less money for the school choir and thus less events they can attend.

This isn't about a bunch of greedy people trying to bilk tax payers out of money it is about choir directors with little money trying to figure out ways to attend as many events as possible. I would guess that the entire cost of this event is covered via the tickets and the money made from the sale of DVDs. Also, you are not paying $30 for a DVD, you are paying $30 to help support the choir.

Finally, here is a link to a video from the 2008 event link
This is not a bunch of high school kids standing on a stage and singing. This is a pretty elaborate event with costumes and dancing and staging etc. I am sure it cost a lot of money to put this event on.

I would understand if this was his high schools yearly concert, but it is not, it is a pretty major production.

BTW the videos are worth a good laugh. High school choirs doing "You Give Love a Bad Name" is pretty bad.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Ldir
That was dumb. Way to miss the point Sparky. They are our children performing. We paid for the school. We pay the salaries of the teachers and administrators. They work for us. They are paid to represent our interests, not some private business that wants to gouge parents.

But you are NOT paying to put on this event!!!!!

Watch the video in my previous post. This event is not being bankrolled by the local school board. The money comes from Fundraising and ticket sales etc. Also events like this are revenue streams for the host school choir.

Have you ever participated in any kind of school organization like this? Any first hand personal experience at all?

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Ldir
So what? Was it a public school? Was his daughter performing? He had every right to record his daughter performing in a school related event on public property. It is bad enough schools charge us to see our children perform. It is outrageous they deny parents an opportunity to record it while allowing a business to profit at it. You government apologists make me sick.

You are missing the point.

1. If you let everyone record it you ruin the event.
2. If everyone can record it you lose the revenue stream the recording contract provides.
3. Loss of the revenue stream means less money for the school choir and thus less events they can attend.

This isn't about a bunch of greedy people trying to bilk tax payers out of money it is about choir directors with little money trying to figure out ways to attend as many events as possible. I would guess that the entire cost of this event is covered via the tickets and the money made from the sale of DVDs. Also, you are not paying $30 for a DVD, you are paying $30 to help support the choir.

Finally, here is a link to a video from the 2008 event link
This is not a bunch of high school kids standing on a stage and singing. This is a pretty elaborate event with costumes and dancing and staging etc. I am sure it cost a lot of money to put this event on.

I would understand if this was his high schools yearly concert, but it is not, it is a pretty major production.

BTW the videos are worth a good laugh. High school choirs doing "You Give Love a Bad Name" is pretty bad.

1. Bullshit. I go to school concerts all the time. Lots of people record them. It does not ruin anything for anyone.
2. Too bad. I am a taxpayer. The school is public property. My child is performing.
3. Bullshit again. There are other ways to raise money. Our school sells food and gifts. They do carwashes. They have fundraising dinners. They have concession stands. They even sell CD's and DVD's of performances to parents who want to buy them. The difference is these are all voluntary. They still let parents record if they want to.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Have you ever participated in any kind of school organization like this? Any first hand personal experience at all?

Yes. How about you? Do you have any experience as a parent or just as one of the people trying to gouge a captive audience to fill your own purse?

 

[ProfJohn]

I am not a parent, but I have a niece and nephew and have been active with them in similar events.

As someone said, the school sets the rules. I am sure he signed release paper to allow his daughter to be recorded and as the story says there were multiple signs that said "No recording" like it or not those are the rules. If he doesn't like the rules he does not have to attend or he can remove his daughter from the choir program or just not let her go to events that have these rules.

The Northrop High Choir program decided that it wanted to record and sell this show to raise money then that is their decision.

BTW I totally agree that the cops over reacted to the situation. But I believe that the choir programs can set the rules that it wants as long as they are reasonable and everyone is fully aware of them before hand. It is their concert and they can run it however they want.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: SpunkyJones
Its typical. At my daughters dance recital, you could video tape the rehearsal, but not the recital itself. It was filmed by a pro and you could order a copy.

Its typical alright, typical bullshit!

The school should just record it and give it to parents for whatever a blank tape or DVD costs.

 

[Brainonska511]

The performances aren't always funded by separate fund raising by the group. In my school district, they gave money so that certain groups (musical, acting, etc) could perform at different times during the year.

 

[ultra laser]

LOL @ Americans. You guys can't even film your kids dancing at school! And you think you're free! Hahahahahaha

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Thump553
This thread should be more correctly titled: Obnoxious crank tries to impose his own perception of rules on society, goes to jail.

Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for that clown. He knew the rules prohibited him taping. There's a valid reason for this-it's extremely disruptive to have scads of parents blocking the isles and views trying to videotape their little darlings. Instead the school had one permitted taper, and you could obtain a tape from them.

So this jerk's response is to make a complete spectacle of himself and cause violence. What a spoiled brat-and I don't mean the child.

Fuck that, and fuck you.

He's a taxpayer. He pays for that school. He pays the salaries of the worthless administrators who signed the contract with the thieving bastards who claim exclusive film rights and then rape people with exorbitant prices, and he pays the salaries of the fascist pigs who hauled him away.

As a taxpayer, he is part owner of everything that happens in that school and has a right to videotape any goddamn thing he wants there. Government agencies should not be allowed to sign those kind of overarching contracts. He needs to sue, and sue big.

Im with Bober on this one. The School should not be a for-profit enterprise. I know that many will say they need the money, but I submit that they need the confidence and respect of the students parents first. At least he didnt get accused of being a pedophile.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I am sure he signed release paper to allow his daughter to be recorded

You're sure? You're giving your opinion without seeing what he signed. My daughter has been in dance for 3 years and we've never signed anything that gave permission to be recorded. The competitions were recorded and played on educational TV for free though so it didn't matter.

I still think it's bullshit that you cannot record your own child and have to pay for a copy of it. And yes, I have two kids and if it comes to that, the school can kiss my ass and I'll take my kids home. I signed them up for dance, not a fund raiser.

I've always thought conservatives were against big government and the nanny state...LOL at my assumptions on that one.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: ultra laser
LOL @ Americans. You guys can't even film your kids dancing at school! And you think you're free! Hahahahahaha

Yes, it does give one pause.