Man verbally threatens another, gets choked to death during physical altercation

[spidey07]

You know what? I think I finally see your problem:

You are under the impression that you can just magically make things true by stating them over and over and over, like a child (or an adult with the intelligence of a child) might.

Thinking people (stay with me here) have a need for "evidence"...or, "proof of claim" as you will. You have provided a grand total of 0.

"Neener neener" seems to be the summation of your argument, and color all of us dumbfounded that you have stated it as your final answer.



Not that the above quoted passage would apply to the case in question...but just for the lulz, would you care to restate your opinion?

No.

I am going to rape you is the same as I am going to kill you.

Deadly force is justified.

Did you catch our free states justification against arson?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

You ae purposefully changing the verbal threat to I will kill you from I'm going to kill you

Nice try. They are not the same. You've been wrong so many times before on this matter.

They are absolutely the same in terms of it not being a threat of imminent bodily harm. They are also (not coincidentally) exactly synonymous linguistically. We are not talking about someone saying "I'll kill you!" while charging at the shooter (or, here, choker) with a fire axe - all we are talking about is words. Words alone can't create a basis for the use of deadly force under these facts.

Again, please feel free to provide some actual authority for what you're saying, other than "you're wrong." There is a reason nobody, other than your like-minded crony SA, is agreeing with you in this discussion.

 

[thraashman]

Read the article in the op. There are conflicting articles. In my article the person who was threatened did the choke. There is no mention of anybody else or a son.

And in this situation much like every argument you ever make regarding shooting people you are wrong due to incomplete and incorrect information.

 

[JEDIYoda]

HPD Det. Jesus Sosa said it appeared to have ended peacefully when the two stopped and exchanged insurance information, but the man who was at fault said something that cost him his life.

but the detective did not say it was justified,,,you are reading into what the detective said...

 

[mizzou]

the law says in fear of "immediate" fear of death/serious physical injury for a reason.. what happened during the fight i dont know, but words alone do not constitute felony assault


either way, only a fucking sicko would say that.

 

[mizzou]

No.

I am going to rape you is the same as I am going to kill you.

Deadly force is justified.

Did you catch our free states justification against arson?

since youbare basing deasly force only on words....take this into account


only saying "im going to kill you" without any evidence that action is being carried out immediately will be a misdemeanor offense."harassment"

now, saying im going to kill you family in your car....and walk to your car with a weapon is a totally different story

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Spidey your understanding of self defense laws are ridiculous. A verbal threat on it's own is not justification for the use of force in any form. Without any means or acting upon the threat (ie having a weapon out and making a move to act upon the threat). In the case of a person making a verbal threat the most you could do would be reporting the incident to the police and taking out a restraining order against the person making the threat.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

They are absolutely the same in terms of it not being a threat of imminent bodily harm. They are also (not coincidentally) exactly synonymous linguistically. We are not talking about someone saying "I'll kill you!" while charging at the shooter (or, here, choker) with a fire axe - all we are talking about is words. Words alone can't create a basis for the use of deadly force under these facts.

Again, please feel free to provide some actual authority for what you're saying, other than "you're wrong." There is a reason nobody, other than your like-minded crony SA, is agreeing with you in this discussion.

Get outta here with your fancy lawyer speak! Spidey took an 8 hour CCW course.

It is more than a little worrisome that he has his CCW and is still so confused on when he can/cannot legally shoot in self-defense. Hopefully he doesn't wind up killing someone in a verbal argument.

 

[sourceninja]

So ... you're telling me that you would support something like say bashing a person's head into the ground if you felt they had legitimately made a threat against you or your loved ones? It takes a long time to strangle someone to death, long enough that they'd be no longer a threat well past the point in which you killed them.

My take is that the choking had nothing to do with the threat directly. It had everything to do with the man fighting back when he tried to take his info back.

If you had my address and told me you were going to kill my family, I'm going to try to take that address back, if you fight back I'm going to escalate to reasonable means. In this case that cost the aggressor his life.

Now choking is something that is hard for people to grasp. They watch MMA and they know that you go out before you die. What they never seem to notice as that many MMA fighters are unaware their opponent has gone out. There are many people who shake, grasp, punch, etc while unconscious. This is why a good ref is so important in grappling arts. I know guys who can hold on while being choked for a good minute or two and keep fighting back. They are really good at finding that little safe spot to rest. So it would be reasonable for someone in a self defense situation to choke someone for much longer than the person just going unconscious. They probably wouldn't even realize it.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

These are the same people who think zimmerman should have waited until literally one punch before death before shooting trayvon.


Tough to logically debate with these types.

 

[JumBie]

Reading all of the post in this thread, its no wonder the United States is such a fucked up country. Everyone here thinks its okay to kill someone because of a threat. Jesus fucking christ, if thats the case, any kid at school who threatens to punch, kick, rob, stab, or shoot you should be killed on the spot with no remorse for human life, and no thought put towards the fact that people say things when they are angry. No wonder that country has gone to shit.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Reading all of the post in this thread, its no wonder the United States is such a fucked up country. Everyone here thinks its okay to kill someone because of a threat. Jesus fucking christ, if thats the case, any kid at school who threatens to punch, kick, rob, stab, or shoot you should be killed on the spot with no remorse for human life, and no thought put towards the fact that people say things when they are angry. No wonder that country has gone to shit.

Welcome to modern civilized society.

You know what makes things easy? Don't threaten people. Simple as that.

And none of these people thinks this relates to school age boys fighting.

But when you're an adult, things are quite different.


I support a family. They rely on me to work, to provide. And if someone threatens my life they are in turn threatening the well-being of my entire family, so I will react as such.

Adults don't have little physical spats. If someone threatens or attacks you, you need to defend yourself until they are unable to lift a finger.

 

[JumBie]

Welcome to modern civilized society.

You know what makes things easy? Don't threaten people. Simple as that.

And none of these people thinks this relates to school age boys fighting.

But when you're an adult, things are quite different.


I support a family. They rely on me to work, to provide. And if someone threatens my life they are in turn threatening the well-being of my entire family, so I will react as such.

Adults don't have little physical spats. If someone threatens or attacks you, you need to defend yourself until they are unable to lift a finger.

You guys are too fucking sensitive. To paranoid that any threat made on your life will transpire into reality. Like get a fucking grip on yourself, people say shit. If the guy was serious about killing you hes not going to blab it out, people say they are going to kill you when they are angry simple fact, everyone says it. You hear it in movies all the time and you laugh at it, but when someone says it to you in real life, someone you don' know, you run for your fucking gun or anything you can use to kill them before they do good on their word. Get a fucking grip, and don't say this doesn't apply to kids...there is absolutely no difference if a kid says I am going to kill you vs an adult saying I am going to kill you. A kid can pull a trigger just as easily as an adult can. Come up with some more sadistic bullshit to promote violence and homicide.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You guys are too fucking sensitive. To paranoid that any threat made on your life will transpire into reality. Like get a fucking grip on yourself, people say shit. If the guy was serious about killing you hes not going to blab it out, people say they are going to kill you when they are angry simple fact, everyone says it. You hear it in movies all the time and you laugh at it, but when someone says it to you in real life, someone you don' know, you run for your fucking gun or anything you can use to kill them before they do good on their word. Get a fucking grip, and don't say this doesn't apply to kids...there is absolutely no difference if a kid says I am going to kill you vs an adult saying I am going to kill you. A kid can pull a trigger just as easily as an adult can. Come up with some more sadistic bullshit to promote violence and homicide.

So simple, don't threaten a man's life and you have nothing to worry about.

Maybe you need some anger management classes? "Everyone" certainly does not go around threatening people's lives.

The only person promoting violence is you. You're trying to say it's ok for people to go around threatening everyone. Sounds like you're the scared one, maybe you make a habit of behaving this way.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Geez you dropped the F bomb what 4-5 times? Get a grip, before you try to intimidate the wrong person. Seriously, seems like you could use some help with that temper.

 

[Incorruptible]

Geez you dropped the F bomb what 4-5 times? Get a grip, before you try to intimidate the wrong person. Seriously, seems like you could use some help with that temper.

You can't shoot someone for making a threat. If they really wanted to kill someone they would do it and not say it. Many say it to scare others or because they are angry.

 

[sourceninja]

You can't shoot someone for making a threat. If they really wanted to kill someone they would do it and not say it. Many say it to scare others or because they are angry.

Again, he didn't kill him because of the verbal threat. He tried to take the paper with his personal information back. He killed him because while attempting to retrieve that information the guy escalated into a fight.

If they guy only threatened him then gave the paper back, he would be alive.

 

[Incorruptible]

Again, he didn't kill him because of the verbal threat. He tried to take the paper with his personal information back. He killed him because while attempting to retrieve that information the guy escalated into a fight.

If they guy only threatened him then gave the paper back, he would be alive.

I never said he killed him because of the threat. In an earlier post I acknowledged that it was the assault that caused it.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Only can a Spidey07 thread can make Incorruptible seem like a logical and well thought out thinker!

 

[thraashman]

Again, he didn't kill him because of the verbal threat. He tried to take the paper with his personal information back. He killed him because while attempting to retrieve that information the guy escalated into a fight.

If they guy only threatened him then gave the paper back, he would be alive.

Actually you have to read the secondary source posted. The original source is inaccurate and incomplete. The secondary source indicates that the man that was killed by strangulation was done so by the son of the other driver and was only done by him because his father was getting severely beaten. Both drivers ended up in the hospital, the aggressor did not survive.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...e-incident-near-texas-medical-center/25492174

Separately, despite the death not being because of the verbal threat, some in here are claiming that the mouthing off would have been justification to kill him. Which most of us feel comes off as crazy and sociopathic.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

These are the same people who think zimmerman should have waited until literally one punch before death before shooting trayvon.


Tough to logically debate with these types.

Where has anyone in this thread stated such? Typical for you once proven wrong you start with some other irrelevant BS.

 

[dank69]

Where has anyone in this thread stated such? Typical for you once proven wrong you start with some other irrelevant BS.

Tough to logically debate with his type.

 

[shira]

Actually you have to read the secondary source posted. The original source is inaccurate and incomplete. The secondary source indicates that the man that was killed by strangulation was done so by the son of the other driver and was only done by him because his father was getting severely beaten. Both drivers ended up in the hospital, the aggressor did not survive.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...e-incident-near-texas-medical-center/25492174

Separately, despite the death not being because of the verbal threat, some in here are claiming that the mouthing off would have been justification to kill him. Which most of us feel comes off as crazy and sociopathic.

And where does the craziness end?

Man angrily shakes his fist at you: "Oh, I feel threatened. I feel like I'm going to be attacked." Shoot to kill! "Good shoot!" says Spidey.

A BIG man gives you an angry look: "Oh, I feel threatened. I feel like I'm about to be attacked." Shoot to kill! "Good shoot!" says Spidey.

There's nothing magical about a "verbal" threat. So by Spidey's alternate reality, he can legally kill anyone that even looks at him funny.

 

[bshole]

No.

I am going to rape you is the same as I am going to kill you.

Deadly force is justified.

Did you catch our free states justification against arson?

Is a lecherous look ok?

I can remember once when I was at a bar in my youth and this girl came up to me and told me she was gonna fuck the shit out of me. Damn, if only I had known, I would have blown her head off right there, instead she came home with me and blew MY head off!!!!!!

 

[sourceninja]

Actually you have to read the secondary source posted. The original source is inaccurate and incomplete. The secondary source indicates that the man that was killed by strangulation was done so by the son of the other driver and was only done by him because his father was getting severely beaten. Both drivers ended up in the hospital, the aggressor did not survive.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...e-incident-near-texas-medical-center/25492174

Separately, despite the death not being because of the verbal threat, some in here are claiming that the mouthing off would have been justification to kill him. Which most of us feel comes off as crazy and sociopathic.

In ether case, that means that he wasn't killed for making threats, he was killed for beating another man to the point he had to be hospitalized.