Man, this housing thing is going to get REALLY ugly

[Zorba]

But people don't actually vote on this stuff. Local leaders mostly make land use decisions based on the loud cranks who can show up at a public meeting on a Monday night at 5PM. Needless to say this process is not really representative.

Yeah, but people vote in those local officials.

My city has actually block a few zoning changes at the ballot box as well. Actually have a ballot on my desk right now to block a zoning change and purchase the land to incorporate into an adjacent park.

 

[Brainonska511]

But people don't actually vote on this stuff. Local leaders mostly make land use decisions based on the loud cranks who can show up at a public meeting on a Monday night at 5PM. Needless to say this process is not really representative.

Reminds me of Manhattan, where some cranks are trying to save a "historic" parking lot in the seaport district from being turned into a multistory apartment building.

 

[K1052]

Yeah, but people vote in those local officials.

Regrettably most voters could not tell you the name of their electeds let alone their policy positions.

My city has actually block a few zoning changes at the ballot box as well. Actually have a ballot on my desk right now to block a zoning change and purchase the land to incorporate into an adjacent park.

This is not generally how it works in most cities, especially the larger ones with the most contracted supply.

 

[pauldun170]

Reminds me of Manhattan, where some cranks are trying to save a "historic" parking lot in the seaport district from being turned into a multistory apartment building.

A Billion-Dollar Battle Over a Parking Lot at the Seaport (Published 2021)

For decades, development of a scruffy lot on the edge of the South Street historic district has divided residents. Now our critic supports a new plan.

www.nytimes.com

My sister lives in that area and my office is down the street.
When they build on that lot, it's going to be hilarious. The type of people who are going to be scoring those apartments, including the subsidized ones are going to be the same people who who usually score those spots.
Single, 150K-350K+ a year professionals or "daddy pays my bill Pace university student"

 

[K1052]

Reminds me of Manhattan, where some cranks are trying to save a "historic" parking lot in the seaport district from being turned into a multistory apartment building.

The residents of one condo building wanted to turn it into a tow pound to preserve their views. Yes many histories.

Or people trying to sell me that upzoning SoHo will hurt the working class. Get the fuck outta here.

 

[Zorba]

Regrettably most voters could not tell you the name of their electeds let alone their policy positions.



This is not generally how it works in most cities, especially the larger ones with the most contracted supply.

Yeah. But again your problem is with democracy. The people that go to the meetings know their electeds and how they vote.

 

[K1052]

Yeah. But again your problem is with democracy. The people that go to the meetings know their electeds and how they vote.

They know if they go to the meetings and shout loud enough they can kill stuff because politicians usually react to what's right in front of them, regardless of what the entirety of their constituents might want. Municipal elections often have notoriously low turnout depending when they are scheduled also which is usually by design.

 

[MrSquished]

Here is the next mayor of NYC, who said he would stop letting NIMBYs win, voting with the NIMBYs to prevent housing from going up where a McDonald's is

BP Adams rejects proposed 18-story Atlantic Avenue rezoning

Borough President Eric Adams rejected a proposed 18-story residential building on the site of a drive-through McDonalds in Prospect Heights.

www.brooklynpaper.com

 

[Brainonska511]

Here is the next mayor of NYC, who said he would stop letting NIMBYs win, voting with the NIMBYs to prevent housing from going up where a McDonald's is

BP Adams rejects proposed 18-story Atlantic Avenue rezoning

Borough President Eric Adams rejected a proposed 18-story residential building on the site of a drive-through McDonalds in Prospect Heights.

www.brooklynpaper.com

Gotta preserve that drive through McDs 3 blocks from where 4+ subway lines converge, because neighborhood character or something like that.

 

[IronWing]

But people don't actually vote on this stuff. Local leaders mostly make land use decisions based on the loud cranks who can show up at a public meeting on a Monday night at 5PM. Needless to say this process is not really representative.

The people that show up at those meetings are the scumbag developers promising rainbows and unicorns if the city will just let them rape away. It usually works. The “cranks” as you like to call the people who actually live in the city only find out if they read the 5 point font legal notices after the fact.

 

[highland145]

Here, build as many houses/apartments as possible to increase the tax receivables. Congestion/traffic problems be damned.

 

[IronWing]

Here, build as many houses/apartments as possible to increase the tax receivables. Congestion/traffic problems be damned.

At least a developer made some money so it’s all good. Quality of life matters not.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah it's nuts, tons of investors and speculators scooping everything up and causing prices to go up. Even when I was trying to find bush property it was tough. Have to be very fast at putting an offer and getting ball rolling to buy it.

I paid 165k for my house a bit over 10 years ago, and good luck finding a house here in that price range now

 

[dasherHampton]

I was really taken aback by the absence of "mid-range homes" for sale. They've all been bought on spec it seems.

I mean - not ONE fracking house in that range available? That's unbelievable.

Why isn't our incompetent government doing something about this? Wait - I answered my own question.

 

[K1052]

Here, build as many houses/apartments as possible to increase the tax receivables. Congestion/traffic problems be damned.

Interesting argument instead of that planning absolutely everything around cars might have been and continues to be a mistake.

 

[jpiniero]

I was really taken aback by the absence of "mid-range homes" for sale. They've all been bought on spec it seems.

I mean - not ONE fracking house in that range available? That's unbelievable.

Why isn't our incompetent government doing something about this? Wait - I answered my own question.

The costs of building pretty much dictate that any housing built has to be (faux) luxury. Any affordable housing, someone is losing their shirt.

 

[Brainonska511]

The costs of building pretty much dictate that any housing built has to be (faux) luxury. Any affordable housing, someone is losing their shirt.

There are other factors though, such as minimum lot sizes and parking minimums that also lead to more large houses being built.

But I would also always expect new housing to cost more than used housing. The key is to build enough so that everyone stops competing for the much older housing stock.

 

[MrSquished]

I was really taken aback by the absence of "mid-range homes" for sale. They've all been bought on spec it seems.

I mean - not ONE fracking house in that range available? That's unbelievable.

Why isn't our incompetent government doing something about this? Wait - I answered my own question.

Everybody is a NIMBY, both Democrats and Republicans. Nobody wants to give up single family zoning because of a couple reasons - it's like the American dream that has been sold to them for decades and they all think it will take away wealth from them by lowering home values (part of that is definitely conservative whites worried about more minorities moving in)

 

[BoomerD]

I was bored so I browsed Trulia/Zillow for the first time in about 3-4 years. It kind of shocked me into reality.

10 years ago (when I initially started looking) there were dozens of nice homes available in the 120k-150k range. Too many for me to see all of them. A really nice home started at 200k, and McMansions in premier areas started at around 280k. A good fixer upper was around 80k-100k. If you were content to buy in a bad neighborhood you could get one as cheap as 30-40k.

Now?

Nice homes? None. Those dozens of good houses from a decade ago? Off the market. Not a single one available.

Decent fixer uppers in good neighborhoods? Also none.

Buyers are left with:

1) Homes in crappy, crime ridden areas that list around 80k-100k. Hope for gentrification, I guess.

2) High end homes that start at 350-400k.

The "Renter Nation" nightmare might actually be right around the corner.

I don't know where you're looking, but "starter" homes around here "start" at around $300k...

 

[MrSquished]

Interesting argument instead of that planning absolutely everything around cars might have been and continues to be a mistake.

A lot of Americans scoff at or look down at public transit and cyclists as well.

 

[K1052]

A lot of Americans scoff at or look down at public transit and cyclists as well.

Yes certainly outside the cities with decent systems.

 

[jpiniero]

Yes certainly outside the cities with decent systems.

I could see that being a problem right now. People think they will get the Rona if they go on a train.

 

[JeepinEd]

UC Berkely did an analysis that partially explains the high costs of housing in California. It's pretty interesting. https://ternercenter.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/Hard_Construction_Costs_March_2020.pdf

 

[MrSquished]

Yes certainly outside the cities with decent systems.

Yes it's a tough nut to crack. I remember on Patriot Act, Hassan broke down a referendum vote in Phoenix on whether or not to expand the light rail. It did eventually pass but it faced a strong campaign against it, by conservatives, and partially funded by the Koch Brothers of course. In general in this country we spend far less on mass transit and in poorer fashion than the Europeans.

Every day on my cycling groups I hear of close calls of cyclists getting buzzed by cars, and it's most often pickups/SUV's. I've seen videos of coal rollers rolling up next to cyclists climbing hills, completely out of the way of cars, but driving up to the cyclists, slowing down, then coal rolling them. Like any group, some cyclists ride like idiots, but a lot of cyclists just obeying the rules get buzzed by cars because they don't like any cyclists at all.

This article is interesting and breaks things down well: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...c-transportation-works-better-outside-the-u-s

 

[local]

The housing thing is stupid and is significantly contributing to my poor mental health at the moment. My in-laws were telling us we were just being too picky and lots of good priced, for the area, places were available. They never looked at prices and just assumed based on what they paid in 03 for their last house. I think I nearly killed them when I showed them the value of the their $65k doublewide they bought in 2003 was now $350k. This is definitely not just a city problem, housing prices are rising far faster than pay.