Man the Dealership is a ripoff!!!!!!

[steppinthrax]

So I'm hitting around 94K on my camry. Timing belt service comes at around 90K. I'm planning on doing myself, but just to be curious I call the dealer to see how much it is.

They do the water pump and belt which includes a coolant change ($800.00), can someone justify this for me???

Timing belt (goodyear): 15.00
Water pump (incl gasket): 35.00
Gallon of antifreeze: 7/8 bucks

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It all has to do with the time involved. Really, $800 doesn't seem that excessive for toyota parts. You might be able to find a discount shop to do it for half that.

My issues with dealerships (and pretty much all shops) is that it's extremely difficult to find someone who does quality work. I would gladly pay >$120 / hour for someone who takes their time and does a decent job.

 

[HarryLui]

Overhead cost: rent for the dealership, equipment payments, greeters, service advisers, car wash equipment, uniform cost, mechanic cost, etc.


None of those is cheap.

 

[steppinthrax]

It all has to do with the time involved. Really, $800 doesn't seem that excessive for toyota parts. You might be able to find a discount shop to do it for half that.

My issues with dealerships (and pretty much all shops) is that it's extremely difficult to find someone who does quality work. I would gladly pay >$120 / hour for someone who takes their time and does a decent job.

OK, on ebay they sell a kit it includes the following

Toyota Timing Belt (OEM in box)
Toyota Tensioner (two, OEM in box)
Toyota Oil pump seals (OEM)
Toyota Crank, cams seal (OEM)
Toyota Water pupm (OEM)

$322.00

 

[steppinthrax]

Overhead cost: rent for the dealership, equipment payments, greeters, service advisers, car wash equipment, uniform cost, mechanic cost, etc.


None of those is cheap.

You forgot the free wifi and the esspresso machine in the waiting room with full service cable.

 

[HarryLui]

You forgot the free wifi and the esspresso machine in the waiting room with full service cable.

Nothing is free, somebody is paying for it.


I mean, I don't walk into your job site and ask you to do what you do for half of your salary.

 

[steppinthrax]

Nothing is free, somebody is paying for it.

I know that's my point, you go to your back woods mechanics shop with a grungy waiting room and mothballed carpet you probably will get half price LOL....

 

[JCH13]

It all has to do with the time involved. Really, $800 doesn't seem that excessive for toyota parts. You might be able to find a discount shop to do it for half that.

My issues with dealerships (and pretty much all shops) is that it's extremely difficult to find someone who does quality work. I would gladly pay >$120 / hour for someone who takes their time and does a decent job.

I agree, it's tough to find a good garage. Even garages around me with good reputations seem to screw up somewhat regularly.

But, if someone was willing to pay me $120/hr to wrench on a car I'd have to seriously consider my career options, taking out overhead that's about a $100k salary... Let me know the next time you need a timing belt done on your car, I will happily oblige :awe:

 

[DietDrThunder]

While on vacation, the automatic transmission shift cable broke on our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer. AAA towed us to the only place that said it could fix it that day so we could be on with our trip, and unfortunately it was a Cadillac dealership. $385. The bad news was once we got it there, the dealership had to order the cable because it wasn't in stock (it was Friday afternoon and they wouldn't have the part until Monday). The good news was they gave us a 2012 Cadillac Escalade as a loaner (7 miles on the odometer), and we were able to continue with our vacation. We returned the Escalade on Tuesday evening on our way back home (close to 500 miles on the odometer). All and all, I think we came out ahead.

 

[NutBucket]

You should be able to get a timing belt done at the dealer for closer to $600. That's about the going rate here in SoCal. And yes, its a good amount of work.

 

[HarryLui]

But, if someone was willing to pay me $120/hr to wrench on a car I'd have to seriously consider my career options, taking out overhead that's about a $100k salary... Let me know the next time you need a timing belt done on your car, I will happily oblige :awe:

It sounds better than it is, most independent shop doesn't charge $120 per hour, more like $50-$80.

Some week, you might have 2-3 oil change jobs. Some weeks, you might have 20 jobs. Some bad days, you can go to work 40 hrs a week, but you might only be paid 10 hours, if that.

Then there is the equipment tool truck payments, all data license fees, insurance fees...

While on vacation, the automatic transmission shift cable broke on our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer. AAA towed us to the only place that said it could fix it that day so we could be on with our trip, and unfortunately it was a Cadillac dealership. $385. The bad news was once we got it there, the dealership had to order the cable because it wasn't in stock (it was Friday afternoon and they wouldn't have the part until Monday). The good news was they gave us a 2012 Cadillac Escalade as a loaner (7 miles on the odometer), and we were able to continue with our vacation. We returned the Escalade on Tuesday evening on our way back home (close to 500 miles on the odometer). All and all, I think we came out ahead.

Nice upgrade!!

 

[JCH13]

It sounds better than it is, most independent shop doesn't charge $120 per hour, more like $50-$80.

Some week, you might have 2-3 oil change jobs. Some weeks, you might have 20 jobs, you might go to work 40 hrs a week, but you might only be paid 20 hours, if that.

Then there is the equipment tool truck fee, all data license fees, insurance fees...

Oh, I understand the finer points. Still though, $120/hr at 50% time is $125k/year gross, which would be pretty darn good for a 1-man shop.

But I would be stunned if many people would pay that sort of shop overhead rate. It's considerably more than hiring me as an engineer at my fully-burdened overhead rate.

Edit: though if someone was going to pay that sort of cash to have the job done right, I would make time to have a side-business wrenching.

 

[steppinthrax]

Oh, I understand the finer points. Still though, $120/hr at 50% time is $125k/year gross, which would be pretty darn good for a 1-man shop.

But I would be stunned if many people would pay that sort of shop overhead rate. It's considerably more than hiring me as an engineer at my fully-burdened overhead rate.

I don't see how working as a mechanic for $120/hr is all that, unless your making this via your private shop, have no other employees and have a constant flow of work. Anyway even if you were to crack 100K, in most areas that's not that much. You also wouldn't be working typical 8hr days.....

 

[JCH13]

I don't see how working as a mechanic for $120/hr is all that, unless your making this via your private shop, have no other employees and have a constant flow of work. Anyway even if you were to crack 100K, in most areas that's not that much. You also wouldn't be working typical 8hr days.....

$100k is a bit more than average for a job that doesn't require an advanced degree. Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[EagleKeeper]

$125-$150/hr - book labor - chain or dealer

Many small shops $50-$70/hr

 

[Vetterin]

My son just had the timing belt and water pump replaced on his 2002 Civic with 144,000 miles for the FIRST time at the dealer for $722 after tax. They also replaced the drive belts which were included in the price. He was also given a 2012 Civic as a loaner for the day. All things considered......and knowing that everything was done right I think that was a fair price.

 

[steppinthrax]

$100k is a bit more than average for a job that doesn't require an advanced degree. Correct me if I'm wrong...

I used to think like that until I see my chlidren's pediatrician making around 80K after overhead and a plumber making around 120K

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I agree, it's tough to find a good garage. Even garages around me with good reputations seem to screw up somewhat regularly.

But, if someone was willing to pay me $120/hr to wrench on a car I'd have to seriously consider my career options, taking out overhead that's about a $100k salary... Let me know the next time you need a timing belt done on your car, I will happily oblige :awe:

In all seriousness I've looked into opening a 'high end' shop that does just that... Complete with webcams spread around so you can watch your vehicle being repaired.

We have 3-4 high end shops near me.. All want >$120/hour. They market as performance places etc, but the overall quality of work is no different than most smaller street corner places.

My issue is no one cares about the details.. I'm so sick and tired of scratched wheels, bolts not torqued properly, tons of shortcuts... and there's seemingly NO way around this in the car repair industry.

Also, I believe it's going to get even worse over the next years as the more complex vehicles start to have problems.

 

[JCH13]

I used to think like that until I see my chlidren's pediatrician making around 80K after overhead and a plumber making around 120K

There are definitely some plumbers making bank, but I would bet there are far more people turning wrenches on cars and trucks for much less money.

There are also doctors, and even some nurses, making $600k+ per year, in the same building as degree-holding lab technicians getting paid $45k-60k to work with highly virulent, potentially incurable, strains of pathogens. There is no justice in this world.

/threadjacking

 

[NutBucket]

My son just had the timing belt and water pump replaced on his 2002 Civic with 144,000 miles for the FIRST time at the dealer for $722 after tax. They also replaced the drive belts which were included in the price. He was also given a 2012 Civic as a loaner for the day. All things considered......and knowing that everything was done right I think that was a fair price.

Tempting fate are we?

 

[sdifox]

trades are only going to make more as the baby boomers retire.

 

[evident]

It all has to do with the time involved. Really, $800 doesn't seem that excessive for toyota parts. You might be able to find a discount shop to do it for half that.

My issues with dealerships (and pretty much all shops) is that it's extremely difficult to find someone who does quality work. I would gladly pay >$120 / hour for someone who takes their time and does a decent job.

except that the dealer does not always do a decent job. I took my accord to the honda dealership for an oil change and to rotate my tires because my normal mechanic was booked and i needed to get things done. i came back with a chipped rotor and massive wobbling when I applied my brakes. at the time my car was < 20k miles with no issues so it definitely wasn't wear and tear. I had to bitch and complain before they replaced the rotor for me.

While on vacation, the automatic transmission shift cable broke on our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer. AAA towed us to the only place that said it could fix it that day so we could be on with our trip, and unfortunately it was a Cadillac dealership. $385. The bad news was once we got it there, the dealership had to order the cable because it wasn't in stock (it was Friday afternoon and they wouldn't have the part until Monday). The good news was they gave us a 2012 Cadillac Escalade as a loaner (7 miles on the odometer), and we were able to continue with our vacation. We returned the Escalade on Tuesday evening on our way back home (close to 500 miles on the odometer). All and all, I think we came out ahead.

that is so awesome. I would have probably wrote off my entire weekend if that happened to me.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

except that the dealer does not always do a decent job. I took my accord to the honda dealership for an oil change and to rotate my tires because my normal mechanic was booked and i needed to get things done. i came back with a chipped rotor and massive wobbling when I applied my brakes. at the time my car was < 20k miles with no issues so it definitely wasn't wear and tear. I had to bitch and complain before they replaced the rotor for me.

Yeah... I know, that's what I said. Dealers are generally just as bad as small shops, but they have enough money to where replacing a screwup doesn't come out of the owner's pocket.

 

[bruceb]

$90 to $120 or so per hour, is the current rates in most areas. So if the parts are correct at about $300 as said above, that is only about 4 hours of labor. Seems reasonable. Depending on the car, getting to the timing belt can be easy or a lot of parts have to come off first to get to it. And I do agree with doing the water pump, as it must come off anyway and now is a good time to swap it. Have them flush the cooling system, put in a new T-Stat and radiator hose while they are doing it. It only only be a few extra dollars for the parts.

 

[exar333]

In all seriousness I've looked into opening a 'high end' shop that does just that... Complete with webcams spread around so you can watch your vehicle being repaired.

We have 3-4 high end shops near me.. All want >$120/hour. They market as performance places etc, but the overall quality of work is no different than most smaller street corner places.

My issue is no one cares about the details.. I'm so sick and tired of scratched wheels, bolts not torqued properly, tons of shortcuts... and there's seemingly NO way around this in the car repair industry.

Also, I believe it's going to get even worse over the next years as the more complex vehicles start to have problems.

I have to disagree with this. I have used both dealers and independent shops that really did go the extra mile and care about those things. Many do not, though. It's work to find one that does care, but it always comes down to the specific person who is working on your car. There are shops around that do though.

I remember with my Mazda when I brought it in for a routine maintenance check-up. Apparently the mechanic accidentally damaged the carpet slightly on the driver's side. They called me right away and asked if they could keep the car for an extra day, and explained the issue. They replaced all the carpet in the car and literally did a detail on the entire car. They apologized and were extremely honest. I appreciated that. It does happen...