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Man spends 2 years in solitary after DWI arrest, no trial

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BoberFett said:
More fail by Craig. If we need big federal government to police local government, who polices the federal government? World government? Who polices the world government? Citizens? If citizens can't police the local government, what makes you think they can police a world government? At that point you just end up with institutionalized abuse at a world scale.

This is the failure that big government stooges can't get past.
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This. The answer to a corrupt local government is not to make an even more powerful state and/or federal government. The answer is to punish those responsible, and further restrict the local government's power.
 
Craig234 said:
To make another exception reading/replying to monovillage, this is a good example of how misguided the right is.

Are we going to get rid of police and jails to prevent this, no more government?

Hardly, and what a disaster that would be.

No, this is a case showing how that beloved 'local government' of the right can have something monstrous happen and we we need good and strong central government to be available to put in place regulation and prevent it and take corrective measures when the local government fails.

In other words people like him are a disaster who would make this far more frequent.
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Are you really trying to suggest this simply would not have happened if there had been more central government, and less local? This was a human(s) failure, not one that merely adding EVEN MORE layers of red tape and government would solve. To simply say that more gubment would sure have prevented this is insane. The fact that you even view this as a small gov/conservative vs. big gov/liberal issue is insane.

Your comment has zero proof to back up your ridiculous assertion, but then again that is par for you anyway.

This would never have happened in a Gulag, right Craig? That is what you are basically saying.
 
monovillage said:
How can you tell a progressive from a conservative? When the government screws up big time the progressive says "what we need is more government". When the government screws up big time the conservative says "we need a smaller and more accountable government."

I will freely admit that I am biased in the direction of a smaller and more accountable government.
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No, modern conservatives usually brush off incidents like this as "unfortunate, deal with it"

Remember, life begins with conception and ends with birth.
 
lopri said:
No, modern conservatives usually brush off incidents like this as "unfortunate, deal with it"

Remember, life begins with conception and ends with birth.
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There is a difference between our 2 claims. I'm a conservative telling you what a conservative believes and you're a lefty/progressive/liberal that's telling me what you think a conservative believes. Guess which one is accurate?
 
I am not a lefty. I also qualified a specific breed of conservatives as "modern" conservatives.
 
monovillage said:
There is a difference between our 2 claims. I'm a conservative telling you what a conservative believes and you're a lefty/progressive/liberal that's telling me what you think a conservative believes. Guess which one is accurate?
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Thank you for noting that difference. I am so sick of comments like that, whether it comes from the left or right. They only serve to inflame and derail, and are rarely of any accuracy.
 
lopri said:
I am not a lefty. I also qualified a specific breed of conservatives as "modern" conservatives.
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ahhh, then I may be wrong about my premature labeling of your position. I'm not really sure what a "modern conservative" is, what's your definition?
 
MotF Bane said:
This. The answer to a corrupt local government is not to make an even more powerful state and/or federal government. The answer is to punish those responsible, and further restrict the local government's power.
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You guys are absolutely right. We don't need more government to solve this, we need less. We The People can manage this. We can hold those who infringe upon our rights accountable ourselves. All we have to do is band together and organize. Maybe draw up some sort of document declaring our sovereignty and defining our authority. Create a hierarchical structure that lets our voices be heard and and our will be executed. It will be glorious! We can call it... oh wait. Shit.
 
lopri said:
I am not a lefty. I also qualified a specific breed of conservatives as "modern" conservatives.
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So, don't like it when people tell you what you are and what you believe, because it is wrong? :biggrin:

Seriously, I see all sides doing this, and it drives me nuts for some reason.
 
It is both sad, and very telling, that a thread with this subject matter goes full partisan-tard so quickly. Is it just me or has P&N been even more cesspooly lately?
 
I apologize for distraction I caused. Let's get back on the topic and ratchet up our outrage. I'm limiting my position to post #25.
 
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Gonad the Barbarian said:
You guys are absolutely right. We don't need more government to solve this, we need less. We The People can manage this. We can hold those who infringe upon our rights accountable ourselves. All we have to do is band together and organize. Maybe draw up some sort of document declaring our sovereignty and defining our authority. Create a hierarchical structure that lets our voices be heard and and our will be executed. It will be glorious! We can call it... oh wait. Shit.
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You mean the heirarchical structure that has been shifting more and more power to the top, and in the process shifting wealth to fewer and fewer people, and doing things like starting wars and telling us they can hold "terrorists" indefinitely without a trial?

Yeah, clearly this local failure would never have happened with just a little bit more power at the top of the heirarchy...
 
BoberFett said:
You mean the heirarchical structure that has been shifting more and more power to the top, and in the process shifting wealth to fewer and fewer people, and doing things like starting wars and telling us they can hold "terrorists" indefinitely without a trial?

Yeah, clearly this local failure would never have happened with just a little bit more power at the top of the heirarchy...
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Some of you need to go back to the article and take a look at what level of government is finally settling this injustice. But don't let reality get in the way of your anti-federal rantings.
 
monovillage said:
Because the people that have the power and the authority, the government officials and bureaucrats responsible for the criminal justice system in that place fucked up by the numbers. If you put your trust in the government, this is what you get.
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Way out in the weeds. It's not like Las Cruces is the home of big brother, given that there are only ~210K people in the county.

It's more an example of hicks being dicks, of being allowed to treat prisoners like pieces of meat rather than as people. It's because the people running the small time jail have no sense of accountability to higher authority, either, let alone to anything like moral principles.

While big city jails have their problems, obviously, this kind of thing isn't one of them, because they have systemic checks & balances to prevent it. That's not necessarily true out in small town America.
 
Jhhnn said:
Way out in the weeds. It's not like Las Cruces is the home of big brother, given that there are only ~210K people in the county.

It's more an example of hicks being dicks, of being allowed to treat prisoners like pieces of meat rather than as people. It's because the people running the small time jail have no sense of accountability to higher authority, either, let alone to anything like moral principles.

While big city jails have their problems, obviously, this kind of thing isn't one of them, because they have systemic checks & balances to prevent it. That's not necessarily true out in small town America.
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A county with 210,000 people in it is "small town America?"
 
Nebor said:
A county with 210,000 people in it is "small town America?"
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Perhaps an overstatement on my part, but the place certainly isn't like LA, New York, or even Metro Denver.

The populaiton of Las Cruces is ~95K, making it more like a mid sized city.
 
BoberFett said:
Don't keep me in suspense, is it the same level of federal government that invaded Iraq?
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Yeh,the same level of govt that created the civil rights & voting rights acts, that has affirmed Women's rights, Miranda rights, privacy & a few of the other things we wouldn't take for granted under a regime of States' Rights...

Trivial stuff, really.
 
Jhhnn said:
Perhaps an overstatement on my part, but the place certainly isn't like LA, New York, or even Metro Denver.

The populaiton of Las Cruces is ~95K, making it more like a mid sized city.
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What is the direct correllation between the size of the city and this event happening? At what size city would this jail have to be in, for it NOT to happen?

Here is a photo of the facility. IMO, it is quite a reach to think this wouldn't have happened in a larger city or facility. This is a failure of humans, not a lack of central planning or a symptom of rural correctional facilities. I just don't see the connection personally. Of course this never would have happened in an iron fisted soviet era gulag, right?

DetentionCenter.jpg
 
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