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Man sentenced to 13 years for tricking girlfriend into taking abortion pill

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TheSiege said:
Bottom line, this guy broke the law, he was punished for what he did. Do men deserve more rights when it comes to pregnancy, probably so. Do they deserve equal rights? Not until they equally share the responsibility of pregnancy. Bottom line, if you don't want to pay child support, don't engage in activities that can end in that result. Until then, know that, by having sex, it can lead to pregnancy and thus child support
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Sounds exactly like right-wing Christians.

If you don't want to be pregnant, don't engage in activities that can end in pregnancy.
 
nehalem256 said:
Sounds exactly like right-wing Christians.

If you don't want to be pregnant, don't engage in activities that can end in pregnancy.
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Yes but according to the SCOTUS a woman has the right to an abortion if she chooses. You don't have to like or even agree with the laws, but you do need to follow them or else there are consequences. If you don't like them that much, move to some other country that restricts abortions. And just a heads up, you won't like it there either...
 
TheSiege said:
Yes but according to the SCOTUS a woman has the right to an abortion if she chooses. You don't have to like or even agree with the laws, but you do need to follow them or else there are consequences. If you don't like them that much, move to some other country that restricts abortions. And just a heads up, you won't like it there either...
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So by your argument all the black people who fought for civil rights were wrong and should have instead moved to another country 🙄
 
Doppel said:
This illuminates an absurd contradiction in the pro-choice movement. On the one hand she can kill her fetus because it is a worthless bag of cells but if he does it he gets murder. Is that fetus a person of not? Only if mom says it is?
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Yup. And nothing absurd about it. Remember, nothing has an objective value, so sitting there with the belief that some human valuation has uncovered the "true" value of something and that now you are "objectively right" about the value is simply wrong.

This is a human enterprise, so there is only a contradiction if there is insurmountable conflict between human valuations. (such as if there is a need to have a consistently true effect, but the interpretation in question does not lend itself to realizing said effect.) Such is not the case with the lawful/unlawful killing of a fetus. The mother's interpretation may change just as we may change interpretation between a pig raised for slaughter and someone's pet pot-belly. If we ask others to follow us in our subjectivity, it's only polite to follow theirs. It has nothing to do with any objective state of the object, it has to do with respect of the person holding the perception. They are adult humans, and to say the perception of adult humans matters does not contradict with saying the opinion of adult humans matter.

The problem you're having is that you believe that only white, male Christians matter. (Or similar -- whatever raises your opinion into the perceived only one that matters)
 
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nehalem256 said:
So by your argument all the black people who fought for civil rights were wrong and should have instead moved to another country 🙄
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By all means, fight for it, waste your time and money. But I am going to guess that you are just going to bitch about it on ATOT.
 
DominionSeraph said:
Yup. And nothing absurd about it. Remember, nothing has an objective value, so sitting there with the belief that some human valuation has uncovered the "true" value of something and that now you are "objectively right" about the value is simply wrong.

This is a human enterprise, so there is only a contradiction if there is insurmountable conflict between human valuations. (such as if there is a need to have a consistently true effect, but the interpretation in question does not lend itself to realizing said effect.) Such is not the case with the lawful/unlawful killing of a fetus. The mother's interpretation may change just as we may change interpretation between a pig raised for slaughter and someone's pet pot-belly. If we ask others to follow us in our subjectivity, it's only polite to follow theirs. It has nothing to do with any objective state of the object, it has to do with respect of the person holding the perception. They are adult humans, and to say the perception of adult humans matters does not contradict with saying the opinion of adult humans matter.

The problem you're having is that you believe that only white, male Christians matter. (Or similar -- whatever raises your opinion into the perceived only one that matters)
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I might be wrong, but isnt it conservatives that push for punishment in court when someone "kills" a fetus out of malice
 
TheSiege said:
I am all for equality, but we dont share the burden equality when it comes to pregnancy and child birth. Therefore they should have more rights since they are more burden. I'm a realist.
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More rights AND more responsibility.

Having a child is the sole choice of a woman and should therefore be the sole responsibility of the woman. If she expects a man to support her she can get married.
 
nehalem256 said:
More rights AND more responsibility.

Having a child is the sole choice of a woman and should therefore be the sole responsibility of the woman. If she expects a man to support her she can get married.
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Jesus, what a misogynist. You have one lucky wife. But I am guessing you're single...
 
TheSiege said:
I might be wrong, but isnt it conservatives that push for punishment in court when someone "kills" a fetus out of malice
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They push for it along an interpretation that would broaden right into outlawing abortion, just as they push for religious expression along one that broadens into giving them rein to establish a state religion. That we don't go along with their tactics doesn't mean there's conflict with the core notions.
 
TheSiege said:
I am done engaging with you, obviously you have some deep rooted issue, and you are probably more comfortable in a country like Saudi Arabia.
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Yeah I thought so. Expecting women to be responsible for their choices obviously isn't misogynistic.

And I don't know why you are bring up Saudi Arabia. I am arguing for exactly the opposite of Saudi Arabia. Recognizing women as fully equal to and having no need of men.
 
13 years sounds like a long time to serve for this, but I'm ok with the conviction. It's her body and her choice, and he wrongly denied her the choice to have that baby.
 
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