Man Just Brought Gun Into Comet Ping Pong

[interchange]

So we'll take your example.

If they do this 4 or 5 times on the trot do we just go "Oh! Thats just Phil he's got a crappy memory." and let him carry on killing patients? Or do we go "Yeah, Phil. We think that nursing might not be your thing. We're going to have to ask you to find something different."?

Do we punish Phil for the good of society? And would that be a good thing?

A just culture is one that values mistakes. When they happen, you console the person who made the mistake and look to see where the vulnerability is in the system that allowed the mistake to happen. If the vulnerability in the system is that someone is grossly incompetent, then of course you cannot allow them to continue serving that function.

But, a clear pattern of incompetence is not an example of a mistake.

Edit:
This has definitely been studied. More likely than not an error in medicine is found to be caused by faulty systems, processes, or conditions rather than incompetence or recklessness by the person committing the error.

Knowing that, if your response to an error is to punish the person who made the error, how would you ever identify the system, process, or conditions that enabled the error to happen (not to mention basically guarantee that it will happen again)?

And, say someone does commit a mistake that doesn't end up harming someone. How would you know there was a problem until someone died? Do you think, knowing they will be punished, someone will come to you and said they made a mistake and have an idea how it can be prevented in the future?

 

[WelshBloke]

... If the vulnerability in the system is that someone is grossly incompetent, then of course you cannot allow them to continue serving that function.

So you'd punish them by terminating their employment?

But, a clear pattern of incompetence is not an example of a mistake.

Its not an example of a mistake, its an example of a series of mistakes.

 

[Bitek]

1. Flynn's are shady as fuck
2. Idk wtf the rest of the thread is about. Way OT.

 

[interchange]

So you'd punish them by terminating their employment?

Its not an example of a mistake, its an example of a series of mistakes.

The best answer is "uh-huh".

Do you want to add an asterik for a series of mistakes that demonstrates that an individual is a risk rather than a system is a risk?

 

[Caveman]

This thread has gotten so OT that it's almost not worth posting... But, how many who have posted here actually spent the time to pour over the Reddit posts by many impartial folks who took the time to dig up the material? I'm sure at least some of them were impartial.

Perhaps no amount of arm twisting will convince anyone that I'm not a right wing conspirator, but take a look at the "facts" as an impartial arbiter with a raised eyebrow of curiosity. Read the emails for yourself and take a look at the instagram posts, etc... Again, I have zero left or right leaning - they are both equally wrong!

I can see why people might assume pizzagate is driven by folks with a right leaning since there are more "left names" than right names showing up in the investigation. That said, there are some very interesting and odd things that would be great to have a rational discussion about. These are things that defy logic.

Do some honest investigation as a rationale sleuth and come to your own conclusions... Keep in mind the MSM (including Fox news) have done what they could to cast dispersions on the investigation. Also keep in mind the research and conclusions implicate Republicans as well as Democrats.

Sure, there will be some idiotic things mixed in with the facts (since when is that not the case when dealing with humans?). Still, there are some very basic questions that the data screams to be analyzed. Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

This thread has gotten so OT that it's almost not worth posting... But, how many who have posted here actually spent the time to pour over the Reddit posts by many impartial folks who took the time to dig up the material? I'm sure at least some of them were impartial.

Perhaps no amount of arm twisting will convince anyone that I'm not a right wing conspirator, but take a look at the "facts" as an impartial arbiter with a raised eyebrow of curiosity. Read the emails for yourself and take a look at the instagram posts, etc... Again, I have zero left or right leaning - they are both equally wrong!

I can see why people might assume pizzagate is driven by folks with a right leaning since there are more "left names" than right names showing up in the investigation. That said, there are some very interesting and odd things that would be great to have a rational discussion about. These are things that defy logic.

Do some honest investigation as a rationale sleuth and come to your own conclusions... Keep in mind the MSM (including Fox news) have done what they could to cast dispersions on the investigation. Also keep in mind the research and conclusions implicate Republicans as well as Democrats.

Sure, there will be some idiotic things mixed in with the facts (since when is that not the case when dealing with humans?). Still, there are some very basic questions that the data screams to be analyzed. Something is rotten in Denmark.

I've read a fair bit about it because I enjoy conspiracies and radical politics, and haven't seen anything compelling. What facts do you find most compelling? The owner saying there was a basement in 2015, and denying that one exists now? Maybe he was using 'basement' and 'cellar' interchangeably. A silly photo of a girl taped to a table with a caption about how to have parents handle their unruly children? No one would think anything remotely sexual about that without all the hype in the first place. An abstract, creepy painting appearing to depict some kind of child assault? Yeah it's kind of weird, but I'd find it infinitely more likely that an artist decided to make a painting to either make a commentary on the subject or perhaps as some kind of personal relief, rather than a massive international pedo-ring deciding to use it as a public wink and nudge to prospective customers.

Even Infowars is now pretending they never accused Comet Pizza and instead referring to it as a falseflag or disinfo or whatever in order to hide a REAL pedo ring, being committed elsewhere.

 

[Caveman]

The inordinate amount of odd connections (you list a few of the many). Many more odd connections with human trafficking POCs, symbols at pizza places, adults being repeatedly excited at things that are just "odd". Would you want to take your kid to a place with those sort of pictures on the wall? Political dollars funneled into the place... The MSMs spin away from the story while it's eating up the net. It could be all just happenstance/wild coincidence... but at this point, it would seem more conspirator-like to believe that possibility as the truth. If anything, it seem so rife with oddity that it's almost like it wants to find itself out...

 

[ivwshane]

Lol the mainstream media isn't covering therefore it must be true!

 

[brycejones]

Lol the mainstream media isn't covering therefore it must be true!

The bubble must be defended at all costs!

 

[interchange]

The bubble must be defended at all costs!

I can understand why someone would be compelled to make these mistakes.

 

[Zorba]

As soon as I see someone use the term MSM, or better Liberal MSM, as a scapegoat. I realize they are a loon and ignore everything else they have to say. Tearing down the media is propaganda 101.

It is nice the loons make themselves so easy to identify.

 

[HomerJS]

As soon as I see someone use the term MSM, or better Liberal MSM, as a scapegoat. I realize they are a loon and ignore everything else they have to say. Tearing down the media is propaganda 101.

It is nice the loons make themselves so easy to identify.

+1

 

[zinfamous]

There was some right-wing conspiracy theory claiming that Hillary and Podesta were running a child-trafficking sex ring out of a pizza place in DC. Apparently someone was actually crazy enough to believe it.

Edit: I should rephrase. Thousands have been crazy enough to believe it, one was crazy enough to take a gun into the place.

I know I'm late to the party (appropriately vacationed for picking on nerds, yet again, in that other forum. ) and this has already been asked, but has anyone checked on OrroaroroROOOaos? I assumed that this was him, all along.

 

[zinfamous]

I wasn't making any claims, was just reporting what the original post suggested.

This isn't reporting anything. You and your ilk have long conflated the terms "reporting," "news," and "facts"

Grow the fuck up and join the few remaining adults in this country.

 

[zinfamous]

The inordinate amount of odd connections (you list a few of the many). Many more odd connections with human trafficking POCs, symbols at pizza places, adults being repeatedly excited at things that are just "odd". Would you want to take your kid to a place with those sort of pictures on the wall? Political dollars funneled into the place... The MSMs spin away from the story while it's eating up the net. It could be all just happenstance/wild coincidence... but at this point, it would seem more conspirator-like to believe that possibility as the truth. If anything, it seem so rife with oddity that it's almost like it wants to find itself out...

That's the thing. You could add any number of inordinate amount of odd "connections" and it still wouldn't make this nonsense any more credible. The MO of this type of conspiracy theory, as with all others, is that such ideas begin with the assumption of truth, so any tangential piece of evidence in work of proving that "truth" is therefore valid.

Anything that you want to be evidence, therefore becomes "evidence."

These aren't connections. These are disparate data points co-opted by idiots into servicing the nonsense that they want to believe is true.

 

[Vic]

Even Infowars is now pretending they never accused Comet Pizza and instead referring to it as a falseflag or disinfo or whatever in order to hide a REAL pedo ring, being committed elsewhere.

I'm a strong believer in free speech, but Infowars crossed the line to libel on this one, and I'm sure they know it.
Free speech doesn't include the right to start malicious and defamatory lies. Maybe it's just a pizza restaurant, but some people still depend on it for their livelihoods. That's the problem with these fake news sites, and why I believe it's time to put some teeth back in our libel laws.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm a strong believer in free speech, but Infowars crossed the line to libel on this one, and I'm sure they know it.
Free speech doesn't include the right to start malicious and defamatory lies. Maybe it's just a pizza restaurant, but some people still depend on it for their livelihoods. That's the problem with these fake news sites, and why I believe it's time to put some teeth back in our libel laws.

I wouldn't be surprised if the place pursues a libel case against Infowars or some other conservative media sites who hyped this and they will probably win. The pizza place and its owner aren't public figures and so their protection against being libeled are actually pretty strong. For a non-public figure all you have to prove is that the statement was a false statement of fact and that it harmed their reputation/business/whatever.

 

[Vic]

I wouldn't be surprised if the place pursues a libel case against Infowars or some other conservative media sites who hyped this and they will probably win. The pizza place and its owner aren't public figures and so their protection against being libeled are actually pretty strong. For a non-public figure all you have to prove is that the statement was a false statement of fact and that it harmed their reputation/business/whatever.

I hope Infowars gets gawker'ed. That'll give the conspiracy theory dipshits something to talk about.

 

[Moonbeam]

For more fun check this story out:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e-parent-sandy-hook-shooting-vicitm/95085868/

 

[Vic]

For more fun check this story out:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e-parent-sandy-hook-shooting-vicitm/95085868/

That's just not funny IMO. That parent's child was murdered, and now they're being victimized again. And why? So Alex Jones can make money selling lies.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

That's just disgusting. And yet people will still stand up for people like Jones et al as some sort of bastion of free speech as opposed to the bullshit peddlers they are just making money off of people stupidity and gullibility.

 

[interchange]

People have a responsibility, though not a requirement, to keep an open mind about the things they say.

I would protect that right fiercely, and I would never do so without communicating also that responsibility.

 

[zinfamous]

People have a responsibility, though not a requirement, to keep an open mind about the things they say.

I would protect that right fiercely, and I would never do so without communicating also that responsibility.

Do you believe that the 1st Amendment protects Alex Jones and such people from openly and knowingly spreading lies about private citizens that have been documented to cause those citizens harm to their livelihoods and to their business?

Do you think such a person who is "assumed to understand that responsibility and act honestly on such responsibility" should not face punishment for criminal actions directly resulting from their libel?

 

[Moonbeam]

That's just not funny IMO. That parent's child was murdered, and now they're being victimized again. And why? So Alex Jones can make money selling lies.

I hope you know that by 'more fun' I meant 'more utter madness' about which nothing can be done until the insanity breaks out into actual illegality.

I find it to be utterly fascinating, the dilemma society finds itself in, that it can't act against madness without risking acting against sanity because the sane and the insane can't agree on what sanity is. We have always to wait till a line is crossed and for any victims, that is already too late. I think it becomes especially 'interesting' when it may be human survival itself on which the question hangs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Do you believe that the 1st Amendment protects Alex Jones and such people from openly and knowingly spreading lies about private citizens that have been documented to cause those citizens harm to their livelihoods and to their business?

Do you think such a person who is "assumed to understand that responsibility and act honestly on such responsibility" should not face punishment for criminal actions directly resulting from their libel?

You address here the enormous economic opportunities afforded by the condition of human madness. The cunning sociopath can easily capitalize on it, be handsomely rewarded and praised in many business circles, or even worshiped. Sufficient mad people can even be created to win the Presidency, as we just witnessed.