Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
I think the part that you're missing is that he wouldn't be a transgendered person "in prison" if he hadn't murdered someone.
And "Rosa" (in your link) is in the same boat.
If these guys hadn't killed someone they would be free to pursue their happiness... in whatever form that takes. And y'know what? I'd support them in their endevors. But that isn't the case here.
I don't know if you've thought about this or not but I'd like to point something out to you. When you take radical and extreme positions on controversial subjects, (or even mundane topics) few people are going to take you seriously. As a result you tend to hurt your cause more than you help it. (See: PETA, ELF, Westboro Baptist Church)
By ignoring the person in question here and openly stating that it doesn't matter that he's a murderer - and that he should be provided a very expensive elective surgery that will make his life easier - you come off as a kook. But see, the person DOES matter. The fact that he murdered somebody... matters. And we as a society shouldn't be required to bend over backwards to make his life more tolerable.
That is actually irrelevant. These people are prisons for whatever crime. The issue, then, is whether they will receive appropriate medical treatment during their incarceration.
What you are failing to acknowledge is that gender identity disorder is a recognized psychological illness, with appropriate treatment consisting of couselling, hormones, and ultimately gender reassignment surgery.
Outside of the USA, providing appropriate medical treatment to incarcerated individuals is not a radical or extreme action.
What cause are you refering to?
You are ignoring the fact that even murderers are entitled, under international law, to appropriate medical attention and treatment during their period of incarceration. Even Saddam Hussein is being provided with top-notch medical care. As per requirements of international conventions (which the USA has signed, incidently).
It doesn't have to be an expensive surgery. I am quite certain that there are surgeons in the filed who would be willing to perform the procedure at no cost.
The mob (i.e., people like you - with no concept of law, justice, morality, or human rights) do not determine a criminal's sentence. That is determined by law and the judge. It is not up to people like you, or prison officials, to decide arbitrarily - based on homophobia, sexism, or a primitive desire for revenge - to give prisoners additional punishment by with-holding appropriate medical treatment.
It matters in as far as this individual has had her freedom taken away from her, as punishment for crimes committed.
It does NOT matter (it is irrelevant) when considering an appropriate medical regime for this individual.
Prisoners receive surgery all the time. It's no big deal. You might as well argue that an incarcerated cancer sufferer isn't entitled to have her tumor removed, or be given chemotherapy, because of the heinous nature of her crimes. Basically this is a situation where the barbaric mob (i.e., people like you, politicians pandering to people like you) are seeking to make decisions which really should be made by medical proessionals.
The world some of us live in. What next, prisoners claim being in jail is hazerdous to their health and need to be let go immediately or they may kill themselves? People like you line up around the corner to tell us they should be let free due to their health condition?
I cant wait!
If you feel this strong about it, donate some money to his cause and get it done without using tax payers money.
I think he should get the operation. Just get some new plastic surgeons who want to specialize in this kind of surgery, but have never done it before. After all, it's so hard to find people to practice on.
Seriously speaking - unless this could be good practice for the surgeons, and they'd do it for free, there should be a 0% chance for him to get it.
Let me ask this question:
If he does not receive the surgery and is put on suicide watch, will he die or suffer extreme physical pain?
If NO: This is an elective surgery.
Besides, he in prison for life. What is he going to do with his new anatomy?
Furthermore, I classify gender based upon chromosomes. XY = MALE, XX = FEMALE. If after the surgery this guy has XX chromosomes, I will call him "her." Otherwise, it is still a dude.
A vagina alone does not make gender.
If he does not receive the surgery and is put on suicide watch, will he die or suffer extreme physical pain?
If NO: This is an elective surgery.
Besides, he in prison for life. What is he going to do with his new anatomy?
Furthermore, I classify gender based upon chromosomes. XY = MALE, XX = FEMALE. If after the surgery this guy has XX chromosomes, I will call him "her." Otherwise, it is still a dude.
A vagina alone does not make gender.
Nor does a penis. Nor does a given genetic makeup.
Gender identity is most likely established and/ or located in areas of the brain
I don't really care whether he will die or suffer pain if he doesn't get this operation. This is elective surgery because he has no biological need for it. There are many people out there whose psychiatric condition leads them to seek amputations. They don't get free amputation surgery because they are suffering a psychotic break. Actually, they will likely not get their amputations at the hospital at all, because of ethical issues with performing such a surgery (I wouldn't do it, for one).
Here we're dealing with the same kind of a procedure. It's not required by any stretch of the imagination, because if the person is not going to be able to harm themselves, they will only suffer psychologically.
Unless this is going to be good practice for the docs and free, I don't want my money paying for that.
Here we're dealing with the same kind of a procedure. It's not required by any stretch of the imagination, because if the person is not going to be able to harm themselves, they will only suffer psychologically.
Unless this is going to be good practice for the docs and free, I don't want my money paying for that.
Yes, your genetic makeup does choose your gender, you tool. You need to realize the difference between gender, and gender identity.
If your dog was raised by cats, acts like a cat, thinks he is a cat, is it a cat?
I don't understand, is Anand your personal friend? Cause by all accounts you should've been banned months ago, not just for trolling, but for being an insufferable a$$hole.
When did gender become a state of mind and not a physical genetic trait?
That is like saying I am tall (I'm only 5'7") because I have height identity disorder. Since I THINK I am 6'1"; I am tall.
Does Eminem have Race Identity Disorder? Is he really black because he acts that way?
Our thoughts, even if our thoughts are due to some physical anomaly in our brains, does not change who and what we are.
That is like saying I am tall (I'm only 5'7") because I have height identity disorder. Since I THINK I am 6'1"; I am tall.
Does Eminem have Race Identity Disorder? Is he really black because he acts that way?
Our thoughts, even if our thoughts are due to some physical anomaly in our brains, does not change who and what we are.
Devastated, no...
Upset, yes...
He wasn't hurting anyone (at the time, I don't know what his original crime was), and he is a human being. Of course it's upsetting when people suffer and die, especially when psychiatric illness is involved.
It would depend on the province. Some provinces covers this operation, and others don't.
I see nothing wrong with prisoners getting the same treatment as others in the country.
As for in the US, he probably shouldn't... because i don't think the US systems normally covers this. He shouldn't receive preferential treatment just because this made headlines. If he can afford it himself, maybe he should though. I doubt this is just a way for him to get out of men's prison... if it is, and he's willing to go through with it, then he is mental.
His original crime was brutally murdering his wife. This guy really is scum and I don't think he, or anyone in prison, should be prevented from commiting suicide. Let them take the easy way out.
Anyhow, back on topic...was just curious.
edit: fixed quotation
You bring up a good point. If he were not in prison, he would have to pay for the operation. No insurance company would pay for it. So why should he get special surgery, covered by tax payer dollars, when he is in prison? To me, the prisoner is getting more rights than those that are free.
Aidanjm, why should a prisoner receive an operation in prison that he never would have gotten for free otherwise? Why should he receive special rights in prison?
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
- 1
- 81
More notably, there was the case of the boy with botched circumcision that end up being raised as a girl. By the time he/she hit puberty, he had all sorts of gender identity issues because of his male genetic make up. In the end he had to have reconstructive surgery to turn him back into a male.
This whole non-issue is idiotic. I mean what about female prisioners that suffer depression because their boobs are too small? Or how about small inmates wanting anabolics to get gain muscle so they surivive in jail?
The argument that it's a necessary procedure fro someone's psychological well-being is total bulsh!t. If that was the case, all of us would be entitled to plastic surgery and (* body part ) enlargement surgery because it's necessary for our well being.
Hell I feel fat today, wanna pay for my lipo? If you don't i'll be really depressed over my fatness!
If he were sent to a female prison, he'd probably kill himself. Who wouldn't, being surrounded by thousands of women and being the only man in sight, sans the tallywhacker?
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
Now why are you going to accuse me of being against something I'm already on the record as being for?
And if you're trying to compare his desire for a sex change operation to that of a cancer sufferer your argument holds no water. (And is insulting to anyhone who truly is in medical jepaordy) One situation is, in itself, life-threatening. The former is not a physically or medically dangerous situation. He's not going to die if he doesn't receive this surgery. He might kill himself, but that is HIS CHOICE. A cancer patient doesn't have a choice to live or die. They are at the mercy of their disease and the limits of medical science.
P.S. The unwarranted insults are tiring.
gender is a social construct.
You need to realize the difference between biological sex, and gender.
You also need to realise that biological sex is not, in some cases, black and white. E.g., It is possible for someone to have a male genetic makeup, yet possess female-like anatomy (breats, apparent vagina, no penis/ adam's apple/ other male secondary sexual characteristics). And so on.
Explain how that analogy is relevant.
A more relevant question would be: If a genetic male fetus grows up into an adult with breast, shapely hips, and a short vagina (but with no internal female reproductive organs) is this person male or female?
Or: if a male fetus undergoes brain feminisation leading ultimately to a female gender identity, is this person male or female?
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
I guess the theory (which I do not subscribe to) is that society has denied him the chance to save up money and pay for the operation himself by imprisoning him. It seems to me HE is the one who made that choice by killing his wife, but apparently there are those who think that society owes prisoners MORE than they would have if they hadn't committed awful crimes. I find the whole thing just ridiculous.
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