Malaysia Airlines plane crashes in South China Sea with 239 people aboard

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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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Based on the latest news I do not believe that this was due to an act of terrorism nor a suicide attempt. I still suspect something happened onboard and the pilot turned the plane around but became incapacitated before they could return to Kuala Lumpur. The plane then flew until it ran out of fuel.

Unless the pilot programmed a new destination the plane should have flown to China. If the pilot had entered a new destination, it would be programmed by airport code, not GPS coordinates. Unless a radar track shows it going over an airport, I have to be skeptical. Even though this scenario makes sens there are still too many unanswered questions.

Malaysia is saying the jet is in the Indian ocean for sure now.. but again until there are verifiable pieces we can't put too much faith in this.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Given that one of the transponders ceased operation before the pilot's last voice communication, how do you posit an on-board emergency that gradually takes out the electrical system without drawing the pilot's attention or rendering the plane uncontrollable? Air isn't uniform, the autopilot still makes thousands of small adjustments an hour to keep the plane stable.

Based on my Naval and electrical/electronic experience the type of connectors and breakers use can disrupt signal and may not be apparent to the pilot/person operating the plane/equipment.

Have you read the transcript between the pilot and KL control? Doesn't look out of the norm.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...l-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Interesting read.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien called the fresh details about the flight a "game changer."

"Now we have no evidence the crew did anything wrong," he said. "And in fact, now, we should be operating with the primary assumption being that something bad happened to that plane shortly after they said good night."

If a crisis on board caused the plane to lose pressure, he said, pilots could have chosen to deliberately fly lower to save passengers onboard.
"You want to get down to 10,000 feet, because that is when you don't have to worry about pressurization. You have enough air in the atmosphere naturally to keep everybody alive," he said. "So part of the procedure for a rapid decompression ... it's called a high dive, and you go as quickly as you can down that to that altitude."

Military radar tracked the flight between 1:19 a.m. and 2:40 a.m. the day it went missing, the source told CNN, but it's not clear how long it took the plane to descend to 12,000 feet.
The new details about altitude are "highly significant," said Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

"It explains so many pieces that didn't fit together before," she said. "Now, if we have a scenario where something happened, the plane made a dramatic turn and dropped from 35,000 feet to 12,000 feet, this scenario would fit what a pilot would do in the event of a catastrophic onboard event, such as a rapid decompression, a fire, an explosion. That's what you would have to do, descend, get down and turn around and try to get back to an airport that could accommodate an ailing plane."

If the latest information is accurate, the theory of pilots trying to save the plane fits, said Mark Weiss, a former American Airlines pilot and CNN aviation analyst.
But that's a big if, he said.

"We've had so much information come out and so much contradictory information come out, that I caution against jumping to any types of conclusions at this point," he said.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,498
9,718
136
A disaster and attempt to turn around makes sense, if we rule out previously contradictory information. What does not make sense is their inability to land or communicate.

Was the plane in such mechanically bad shape that they could no longer maneuver it for a landing? Flying until you run out of fuel doesn't make much sense either - except in the face of death. If the pilots knew they couldn't safely land then perhaps they only wanted to live a little longer... until they couldn't.

Inoperable flight controls and fear explains the South India Ocean. The black box is a critical treasure trove for figuring out what happened and how to prevent any other flights from suffering a similar fate.
 

Xellos2099

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2005
2,277
13
81
Something is wrong...they completely ignored something they knew in the beginning? Also, we know the plane changed course before the good night message and transpsonder were turn off manually.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Based on my Naval and electrical/electronic experience the type of connectors and breakers use can disrupt signal and may not be apparent to the pilot/person operating the plane/equipment.

Have you read the transcript between the pilot and KL control? Doesn't look out of the norm.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...l-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html
That's my point. Nothing out of normal in a plane that's already losing systems doesn't seem likely.

A disaster and attempt to turn around makes sense, if we rule out previously contradictory information. What does not make sense is their inability to land or communicate.

Was the plane in such mechanically bad shape that they could no longer maneuver it for a landing? Flying until you run out of fuel doesn't make much sense either - except in the face of death. If the pilots knew they couldn't safely land then perhaps they only wanted to live a little longer... until they couldn't.

Inoperable flight controls and fear explains the South India Ocean. The black box is a critical treasure trove for figuring out what happened and how to prevent any other flights from suffering a similar fate.
I'm not buying the idea that flight controls AND communications were destroyed faster than they could call for help (extremely important when deviating from a planned flight path and altitude, and especially if there is a fire which gives you maybe twenty minutes tops AND requires specialized ground equipment to be in place to save lives) yet the plane continued to fly for several hours. One little buffet tipping the plane and it fairly quickly nose over and crashes. You'd have to have an accident that somehow rendered both pilots unconscious before they could communicate, or somehow removed manual controls and communications and satellite link (passengers' and crews' cell phones) but kept the autopilot (but not its computer) functional for hours. A hand grenade in the cockpit, maybe, with an injured pilot incapable of speech attempting to turn back and descend but quickly losing consciousness. Accident, I'm not buying. Unless maybe they took a meteor through the windshield. Or a drone - although high altitude drones are not small.

Took them 2 weeks but they finally came to same conclusion I did the day it happened, another Payne Stewart situation.

There was a hull breach at 35K and they all froze to death.
You're aware that airlines have had catastrophic hull breaches at altitude before, right? Only if you had no control over the plane would you possibly freeze to death, and that long after asphyxia killed you. Possible, but doesn't seem likely.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,726
54,730
136
Based on my Naval and electrical/electronic experience the type of connectors and breakers use can disrupt signal and may not be apparent to the pilot/person operating the plane/equipment.

Have you read the transcript between the pilot and KL control? Doesn't look out of the norm.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...l-54-minutes-of-communication-from-MH370.html

I would agree. Of course I have no idea how the plane itself is wired but there are certainly cases in other electronics where you could have a cascading failure that wouldn't necessarily be immediately obvious.

By the way I don't know if this was mentioned, but apparently Malaysia Air notified the victims' families via text. Classy.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
A hand grenade in the cockpit, maybe, with an injured pilot incapable of speech attempting to turn back and descend but quickly losing consciousness. Accident, I'm not buying. Unless maybe they took a meteor through the windshield. Or a drone - although high altitude drones are not small.

You're aware that airlines have had catastrophic hull breaches at altitude before, right? Only if you had no control over the plane would you possibly freeze to death, and that long after asphyxia killed you. Possible, but doesn't seem likely.

Speculations will likely go on forever no matter what scenario actually happened that was a lot of souls lost.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Speculations will likely go on forever no matter what scenario actually happened that was a lot of souls lost.
True. And I suppose if the catastrophic breach were in the cockpit, might well kill the pilots too quickly to get off a message. Although that wouldn't explain the transponders failing - one before the last voice message.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Took them 2 weeks but they finally came to same conclusion I did the day it happened, another Payne Stewart situation.

There was a hull breach at 35K and they all froze to death.

It would have to have been a gradual lose of pressurization that no one noticed. If it was rapid the pilots would have had almost 2 minutes before passing put. O2 masks can be donned in a split second. And Payne Stewarts Lear jet flew straight..... The direction that the autopilot was programmed. This does not explain why the plane turned. If there were an emergency why was there no communication.

Maybe one pilot tried to take over after locking the other pilot out of the cockpit. Plane goes up,to 45k feet killing everyone. But the pilot would know where the flight attendant walk around oxygen mask is. Maybe he then tried to get back control... But both pilots got knocked out in the struggle. Then the plane continues to fly in the direction the autopilot was last programmed.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Speculations will likely go on forever no matter what scenario actually happened that was a lot of souls lost.

True. And I suppose if the catastrophic breach were in the cockpit, might well kill the pilots too quickly to get off a message. Although that wouldn't explain the transponders failing - one before the last voice message.

Timeline of this whole thing has been screwy since the news broke.

Can't trust any of it.

Pilot suicide putting the plane into the Payne Stewart situation seems to be the most plausible since the auto Pilot electronics seemed to have continued to work after whatever event killed all aboard.

I'm sure they will try and duplicate (if they already haven't) getting the plane into the configuration that occurred with this one.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Took them 2 weeks but they finally came to same conclusion I did the day it happened, another Payne Stewart situation.

There was a hull breach at 35K and they all froze to death.



It would have to have been a gradual lose of pressurization that no one noticed. If it was rapid the pilots would have had almost 2 minutes before passing out. O2 masks can be donned in a split second. And Payne Stewarts Lear jet flew straight..... The direction that the autopilot was programmed. This does not explain why the plane turned. If there were an emergency why was there no communication.

Maybe one pilot tried to take over after locking the other pilot out of the cockpit. Plane goes up,to 45k feet killing everyone. But the pilot would know where the flight attendant walk around oxygen mask is. Maybe he then tried to get back control... But both pilots got knocked out in the struggle. Then the plane continues to fly in the direction the autopilot was last programmed.

I'm sure they are or already have tried duplicating all kinds of scenarios to get this configuration this plane wound up in for this.

If I recall correctly the freezing happened extremely quickly with the Payne Stewart flight. I think it was less than 2 minutes.
 

uclabachelor

Senior member
Nov 9, 2009
448
0
71
Malaysia is saying the jet is in the Indian ocean for sure now.. but again until there are verifiable pieces we can't put too much faith in this.

We have peer reviewed scientific proof that the plane was last "seen" in the middle of the Indian Ocean at ~7 hours into the flight. Since they know how much fuel was loaded onto the plane, one can conclude that the plane ended up in bottom of the ocean somewhere since there isn't any land within 3-4 hours of flying time.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
4-5-2014

http://news.yahoo.com/biggest-searc...dian-ocean-021719617--sector.html?clear=cache

Chinese ship hunting for missing Malaysia jet detects 'ping'



A black box detector deployed by the vessel Haixun 01 picked up the "ping" signal with a frequency of 37.5kHz per second - the same as emitted by flight recorders - at about 25 degrees south latitude and 101 degrees east longitude


Xinhua also reported that a Chinese air force plane had spotted a number of white floating objects in the search area.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Picking up the ping strikes me as a fantastic stroke of luck or extremely unlikely.

That ocean is huge (and very deep in places), they don't seem to know where it might have gone down and they haven't spotted wreckage to help them locate it.

Fern
 

PG

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
3,426
44
91
Picking up the ping strikes me as a fantastic stroke of luck or extremely unlikely.

That ocean is huge (and very deep in places), they don't seem to know where it might have gone down and they haven't spotted wreckage to help them locate it.

Fern

I hear you, but this new ping location seems to be close to the arc that they said was the last known position based on the satellite data. Well, the southern arc to be specific, so maybe this really is the plane. That would fit. Also now there are reports that some debris has been spotted around 90 km from this ping site. The debris maybe could have moved that far over the course of several weeks.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
Looks like they are still looking in the wrong place how is this new news to these folks?

Now with improved map!

Search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight has been looking in wrong part of Indian Ocean after picking up bogus black box signal, says British satellite firm Inmarsat

Article

Map

.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
I'm flying to Thailand tomorrow.

Guys, if I don't make it I'd like to say that it's been a pleasure to connect with everyone here.

ATOT is my home.

:(
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,672
136
Oh and there is this very interesting report

Female sailor thinks she may have spotted MH370 in the sky above the Indian Ocean on the night it disappeared

Link