Malala confronts Obama

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

so if I just add "f****n" to every sentence it should make my argument stronger?

Are you a relative of BrainHulk ?

 

[bubblehulk]

Why don't you go over there and try to reason with them. After all, they'll respect you more, right?

Now you're starting to make sense!

This is what we should have been doing, if anything at all.

I'm of the "isolationist" view that people actually DON'T enjoy bombs being dropped on their heads, go figure. Trading peacefully is the best way to make friends. Trying to shoot missiles at bad guys while not caring about collateral damage is a BAD idea. Not good foreign policy. And by saying Ron Paul is an isolationist because he is for less foreign intervention (which is wrong since peaceful trading is not isolationism) just proves that you take your arguments straight from CNN and Fox News. All of whom are talking heads spewing garbage. There is no difference between politicians these days.

What did we get under Bush? Big spending and endless wars.
What do we have under Obama? Big spending and endless wars.

It's an illusion, like reality TV.

 

[LegendKiller]

Now you're starting to make sense!

This is what we should have been doing, if anything at all.

I'm of the "isolationist" view that people actually DON'T enjoy bombs being dropped on their heads, go figure. Trading peacefully is the best way to make friends. Trying to shoot missiles at bad guys while not caring about collateral damage is a BAD idea. Not good foreign policy. And by saying Ron Paul is an isolationist because he is for less foreign intervention (which is wrong since peaceful trading is not isolationism) just proves that you take your arguments straight from CNN and Fox News. All of whom are talking heads spewing garbage. There is no difference between politicians these days.

What did we get under Bush? Big spending and endless wars.
What do we have under Obama? Big spending and endless wars.

It's an illusion, like reality TV.

Dude, RP went on record saying that all we need is one SSBN and nobody would fuck with us b/c we can launch nukes. Sounds like an isolationist to me.


And as far as big endless wars. I happen to agree. However, I do realize war was made on us. Not because of Iran or Israel or any reasons you have already mentioned, it was made on us because we dared protect SA and enter sacred muslim lands. OBL was rebuffed and he was pissed.

 

[Jaskalas]

Dude, RP went on record saying that all we need is one SSBN and nobody would fuck with us b/c we can launch nukes. Sounds like an isolationist to me.


And as far as big endless wars. I happen to agree. However, I do realize war was made on us. Not because of Iran or Israel or any reasons you have already mentioned, it was made on us because we dared protect SA and enter sacred muslim lands. OBL was rebuffed and he was pissed.

Osama is dead, most the people involved are dead, and we first retaliated 12 years ago. When does it end?

 

[bubblehulk]

Dude, RP went on record saying that all we need is one SSBN and nobody would fuck with us b/c we can launch nukes. Sounds like an isolationist to me.


And as far as big endless wars. I happen to agree. However, I do realize war was made on us. Not because of Iran or Israel or any reasons you have already mentioned, it was made on us because we dared protect SA and enter sacred muslim lands. OBL was rebuffed and he was pissed.

Hmmm mind sharing the link to RP saying that on record? And the whole conversation please, not just an edited sound byte.

See, that's where you're wrong. War was not made on us. We made war on their soil. 9/11 was retaliation. Blowback. CIA had to come up with a term for how much they pissed people off.
You actually corrected yourself when you say it was because of SA and invading Muslim lands. (Israel is probably a big part of that, FYI)

 

[Tom]

Per this: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/11/obamas-meet-with-malala/?hpt=hp_t3



I respect her (significantly) for standing up to the Taliban and for confronting Obama. However, I believe that she is essentially misguided in that she doesn't understand that the Islamic world will always commit terrorist acts against the Western (or otherwise non-Islamic) world simply because we are not Islamic. She is an idealistic teenager and she means well, but her worldview is shifted far towards Islamic values than it is toward Western values.

People of any religion or no religion could agree with her.

Or, could see the difference between what is ideal, and what is practical and necessary.

There's no reason to associate her ideals with Islam, or the terrorism of others as exclusive to Islam either.

 

[raildogg]

Per this: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/11/obamas-meet-with-malala/?hpt=hp_t3



I respect her (significantly) for standing up to the Taliban and for confronting Obama. However, I believe that she is essentially misguided in that she doesn't understand that the Islamic world will always commit terrorist acts against the Western (or otherwise non-Islamic) world simply because we are not Islamic. She is an idealistic teenager and she means well, but her worldview is shifted far towards Islamic values than it is toward Western values.

And the West will always exploit, rape, plunder, kill the rest of the non-Westerners as they have done for the past 800 years. How's that?

The Islamic world and the Western are not very different. One has much better PR, better media to portray and mold things in a certain way, one has better imagery to project to the outside world. However, they are both responsible for the most deaths. These so-called Christians and Muslims have more blood on their hands than any group in the world. Therefore, the West and its citizens are hypocrites. They have no right to tell the Muslim world to not kill when they themselves are just as bad.

 

[irishScott]

So. Why do Muslims commit more acts of terrorism than anyone else? Well, who ever said that is the case? Assuming it is true, could it be that we are CURRENTLY all over the middle east and not Germany or Vietnam. I think race (color) could play a part. That means Germany is out, and North Vietnam won the Vietnam war! They have no more reason to be at war with us. (go to Vietnam and ask them how they feel about America. I'm sure they adore us)

So. What else could enable Muslims to wage more war against the US? I bet money is a big factor. If more people had big oil reserves to fund their ventures maybe there would be more terrorism from other places. By the way, which nation do you think supports the most terrorism? Could it be Saudi Arabia? America's best friend! 12/19 of the 9/11 "hijackers" were from Saudi Arabia. How come we invaded Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia? Makes sense. Saudi Arabia is a state sponsor of terrorism and no one says anything to them. In fact Hilary Clinton even visits them and gets $500,000 worth of gold jewelry and precious gems!

I apologize, I've been on my phone this whole time, but I'll be able to be more coherent when I finally apprehend a computer.

Oh, so the timeline matters now? I thought you were arguing on the basis of "blowback" from events as far back as 60 years ago. Also last I checked there were no drone strikes going on... anywhere when 9/11 occurred, and we weren't in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I don't see how our hypocritical stance on Saudi Arabia matters here. All you seem to do is point out American foreign policy mistakes and hypocrisy. Which are very much there, but their existence alone is not proof that they are the sole or even primary cause of terrorism. Especially when similar mistakes have been made in the past in non-Muslim nations and not provoked anything resembling a similar reaction.

 

[unokitty]

Why don't you go over there and try to reason with them.

I was in the first draft lottery. Then, I was surprised by how many young fellows drew high numbers and overnight became war hawks.

So, I'm not surprised when someone like you thinks that someone like me ought to do all of their fighting ... But I've done that once. And I won't get fooled again...

People, like you, that lack the integrity to put their values into action, you've got my sympathy.

People, like you are free to believe that they know more about a country and a culture than a girl like Malala that grew up in that country and that culture. But everyone can read your words. And your words make it clear that you lack the ability to distinguish between factual evidence and your own opinion.

Nonetheless there is factual evidence that, unlike you, Malala has the integrity to stand up for her beliefs.

And unlike you, she has earned the right to her opinion.


Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[shira]

OP apparently doesn't like it when a person politely asks "please stop killing my people".

I'm as war hawk as anyone - but only for a purpose. Bin Laden is dead, Afghanistan is "re-built" (read: exactly the same as it was 15 years ago), but neanderthals are still obsessed with killing Muslims. To what end?

If you think this girl offends you, what about our leaders whose incompetence has killed more Americans than those who died on September 11th? Those leaders who think it's a great idea to leave soldiers on patrol in the streets of the Middle East. So they can have a target painted on their backs for snipers and IEDs. The military is meant for killing, but it was used for policing.

Their orders of "nation building" expressly got Americans killed. Where is your outrage over that?

The world's Islamic Terrorism problem will only be solved one of two ways. Genocide, or by a moderate Muslim faction assuming power over the rest. F'ing around by killing a few men, women, and children isn't a complete genocide, nor is it going to help moderates. All we're doing is fueling terrorism.

Let them build their own countries, and let us stay home attending to the Muslim population here on our soil. They are the ones who would harbor terrorists that strike us - they need our help the most, for both our sakes.

The end of Islamic Terrorism doesn't come from a drone strike.

That's not what Kadarin said at all. He said that he disagrees with her position.

There's a difference between saying "I disagree with you" and "I don't like that you're saying things I disagree with."

 

[LegendKiller]

I was in the first draft lottery. Then, I was surprised by how many young fellows drew high numbers and overnight became war hawks.

So, I'm not surprised when someone like you thinks that someone like me ought to do all of their fighting ... But I've done that once. And I won't get fooled again...

People, like you, that lack the integrity to put their values into action, you've got my sympathy.

People, like you are free to believe that they know more about a country and a culture than a girl like Malala that grew up in that country and that culture. But everyone can read your words. And your words make it clear that you lack the ability to distinguish between factual evidence and your own opinion.

Nonetheless there is factual evidence that, unlike you, Malala has the integrity to stand up for her beliefs.

And unlike you, she has earned the right to her opinion.


Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

So really, just wrap yourself in your service to undercut anybody else. Pretty pathetic.


Malala knows so much about her culture of war and misogyny that she is now hiding in another country, one that doesn't make war on innocents and children and women, so that she can speak her mind and make a moral war on them. But do you think they give a shit about that? Nope.

This is what I find ironic, very hypocritical and very naive about this situation. She can easily rip on our President in public, she can champion values, she can try to spread the world, but she does it *HERE*, in the west, where she is protected by drones, by massive militaries, by intelligence arms that are working, every day, every second she does these little speeches, to destroy the very people who would kill her instantly if she went back to that shithole country.

This is how much she knows about her people. She knows she isn't even safe around them.

Then she is going to tell the west to stop droning? Ohh yes, ohhh so noble. Why doesn't she tell her own people to raise up against them, overthrow the mullahs, kill the terrorists, and THEN the droning will stop?


Why don't you challenge her to say that, then we don't have to send soldiers over.

Nope, it's the west's fault for their own medieval policies and subjugation.

 

[LegendKiller]

And as far as that Sun Tzu quote - you take it an interesting spin. You take it to mean that war should be avoided. That wasn't the meaning. Else wise, why even write the remainder of the book on the art of war?

The real meaning was to undermine a population, eliminate its ability to make war, remove its support base, accomplish its surrender in a way as not to engage in a full war or in the full body of the enemies military. If you can accomplish this without wasting your own resources, you have won.

It's like getting a checkmate without losing a single piece. You don't give a shit about making the other side feel good.

As has been proven in the past with the Taliban, you can't negotiate with them.

 

[unokitty]

So really, just wrap yourself in your service to undercut anybody else. Pretty pathetic.

Insulting me doesn't change who, or what, you are.

Uno

 

[raildogg]

And as far as that Sun Tzu quote - you take it an interesting spin. You take it to mean that war should be avoided. That wasn't the meaning. Else wise, why even write the remainder of the book on the art of war?

The real meaning was to undermine a population, eliminate its ability to make war, remove its support base, accomplish its surrender in a way as not to engage in a full war or in the full body of the enemies military. If you can accomplish this without wasting your own resources, you have won.

It's like getting a checkmate without losing a single piece. You don't give a shit about making the other side feel good.

As has been proven in the past with the Taliban, you can't negotiate with them.

People have used Christ, Buddha, Sun Tzu, Ghandi and a lot of other people to gain favor for their cause. Sun Tzu isn't here so there is no point debating what he means by his words.

These ancient books are beyond our intellectual biases. They are not meant to be taken literally. Only a mind that looks at things deeply can understand these ancient books.

Also, the policy you're describing will only lead to an endless cycle of bloodshed - which has been happening for thousands of years. Unfortunately, man hasn't learned a single thing.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sure, they end their old school holy war against infidels, drone strikes stop. seems pretty simple.

 

[LegendKiller]

Insulting me doesn't change who, or what, you are.

Uno

FYI, I was already signed up to go NROTC, but then I blew out my knee in my senior year of HS which, no matter what I tried, weakened it too much to sign up. This was reinforced by me dislocating it another dozen times over 6 or so years until I finally had it reconstructed and my Patellar Tendon relocated. I'd have joined my friends in the military if I could have.

I won't turn around and say stuff about you, personally, because that is disrespectful to our armed services and what you stood for. My dad never bludgeoned his kids with his service to try and prove points, he left it out of the arguments, because he had too much respect for what his serving actually stood for. I would hope you would do the same.

Back on topic.

Do you, or do you not, find it hypocritical of her to be hiding behind the wall of western military power and then criticizing that power. The *only* thing that protects her is the fact that she is here. If she was saying what she says at home she'd be dead by now. Yet she wants to bite the hand that feeds her.

Furthermore, not only is she biting the hands that feed her but she's also reinforcing those that tried to kill her. Rather than criticizing them first and trying to be a leader of her people, she would rather tow the party line and blame the US.

 

[LegendKiller]

People have used Christ, Buddha, Sun Tzu, Ghandi and a lot of other people to gain favor for their cause. Sun Tzu isn't here so there is no point debating what he means by his words.

These ancient books are beyond our intellectual biases. They are not meant to be taken literally. Only a mind that looks at things deeply can understand these ancient books.

Also, the policy you're describing will only lead to an endless cycle of bloodshed - which has been happening for thousands of years. Unfortunately, man hasn't learned a single thing.

It is pretty obvious what Sun Tzu meant. His book wasn't a book on diplomacy, it was a book on war. Waging a war before the war to minimize expended resources is the ultimate way to win the war. This was reinforced in several places around the book. Overall the book is about strategy and using your forces for maximum effectiveness with minimal losses. What better way is there to fight a war than to take what you want without losing a life. That had nothing to do with diplomacy and everything to do with finding a weak spot and exploiting it (ie funded coups, treachery, psyops...etc).

I could be wrong but the historians I have read support this. This isn't Sun Tzu: Art of Peace

 

[JEDIYoda]

malala smalala wholala caresalala?la?La?La

 

[Jaskalas]

That's not what Kadarin said at all. He said that he disagrees with her position.

There's a difference between saying "I disagree with you" and "I don't like that you're saying things I disagree with."

So noted, but it'd be nice if you'd address the main issue.

What she said is correct. Is anyone here ignorant enough to believe that if we keep nonstop drone strikes against other nations, that we OURSELVES would not be DIRECTLY responsible for the next September 11th?

These people may be technologically inferior and thus easy to kill and victimize, but they've already proven what 19 men with box cutters can do. They will find a way. We're doing DAMN sure to guarantee their motivation.

And while we delude ourselves that we're "winning" the "war" on terror, we're actually doing quite a large amount of damage - to ourselves. Remember that "winning" feeling the next time you have to be sexually assaulted at the airport.

 

[Kadarin]

And the West will always exploit, rape, plunder, kill the rest of the non-Westerners as they have done for the past 800 years. How's that?

The Islamic world and the Western are not very different. One has much better PR, better media to portray and mold things in a certain way, one has better imagery to project to the outside world. However, they are both responsible for the most deaths. These so-called Christians and Muslims have more blood on their hands than any group in the world. Therefore, the West and its citizens are hypocrites. They have no right to tell the Muslim world to not kill when they themselves are just as bad.

I am someone who happens to believe in Western values of promoting rights for women, scientific progress, and advancing the human condition. By contrast, the Islamic world promotes the belief that the world should be more Islamic.

All else being equal, fuck the Islamic world.

 

[Kadarin]

That's not what Kadarin said at all. He said that he disagrees with her position.

There's a difference between saying "I disagree with you" and "I don't like that you're saying things I disagree with."

I respect her for what she has to say and what she went through to say it. I just feel it was put forth with the naivete of and idealistic young person who doesn't see the whole picture, and is therefore inaccurate and incomplete.

 

[Kadarin]

What she said is correct. Is anyone here ignorant enough to believe that if we keep nonstop drone strikes against other nations, that we OURSELVES would not be DIRECTLY responsible for the next September 11th?

Islamic terrorism existed prior to the advent of drone strikes. It will continue to exist if the US (and the West in general) decides to end them and embrace some policy of "respect" toward the Islamic world. Terrorism will continue to exist until (a) Islam conquers the entire world, or (b) Islam no longer exists.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's really quite ironic that malala criticizes our president for killing the islamo-wackos, but she has to do it from somewhere other than her crap country because if she were there the islamo-wackos would kill her in an instant. Naive and stupid kid is given a platform.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Islamic terrorism existed prior to the advent of drone strikes. It will continue to exist if the US (and the West in general) decides to end them and embrace some policy of "respect" toward the Islamic world. Terrorism will continue to exist until (a) Islam conquers the entire world, or (b) Islam no longer exists.

Since Islam is a major religion and isn't going away you and the guy who wants the Constitution shredded because he's scared better start killing faster.

 

[LegendKiller]

Since Islam is a major religion and isn't going away you and the guy who wants the Constitution shredded because he's scared better start killing faster.

Because not trying to counter these people is the correct way to live life. We already see that they have no regard for people who challenge them, including shooting a little girl. You are about as big of a hypocrite she is. It's easy to cry about every small perceived reduction in rights when you haven't been directly impacted.

I am all for checks and balances.

I am not for shredding the Constitution but I am for rational approaches to the fact that the Constitution is a foundation, not the house. It is meant to keep our house within confines of a reasonable and representational government. The people who wrote it knew that times would change and the Constitution must allow adaptation to those changes.