"Make my day" Law

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

??? really?


No, this is some kind of elaborate hoax, right..


you so crazy, amdhunter.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Thats 1 less drunk driver on the road as well.

<-- Galss half full kinda guy

Fixed.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Regs
I wonder what the guy's motive was for breaking in? According to the DA report it did not seem like a burglary attempt, and he obviously wanted to make a big scene. It almost seems like a classic case of ex-boyfriend jealousy.

He was drunk and confused. Something like he lived in the same spot (relative to the block), only a block away in the same neighborhood. The houses all look very similar.

I could swear one of the papers here mentioned the resident had shouted warnings, but maybe not....or maybe they reported it wrong.

Either way, it was a totally reasonable course of action. Tragic, but reasonable.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

ohhhhhhhhhh he thought it was his house.....love that excuse. Who made that up because I'm sure a dead man didn't give that statement

 

[spidey07]

As the DA laid it out the guy did a heck of a job protecting himself and his girl. The 911 tape actually provided all the evidence needed to make sure prosecution couldn't even take place. A lot of states if somebody is just trying to break in you can use deadly force.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
why the hell is it called the "make my day" law?

surely they could've come up with a better name than that.. or is Colorado in the habit of basing all their laws on Clint Eastwood movies? Because there are a couple of rape jokes in The Eiger Sanction that I could see being codified..

I don't think it is an official name. Probably some tacky reporter of a local newspaper started it.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
ohhhhhhhhhh he thought it was his house.....love that excuse. Who made that up because I'm sure a dead man didn't give that statement

It's the best they could figure. Someone trying to rob a place doesn't bang on the doors and windows, there wasn't any connection with him and the residents and the guy was hammered.

IIRC, it was the victim's parents that were offering up that reasoning on the news.

*shrug*

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

/sarcasm meter dissolves in puff of white smoke

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2



IIRC, it was the victim's parents that were offering up that reasoning on the news.

*shrug*

The victim was the one who did the shooting.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: edro
My concealed carry instructor taught these 4 precursors to using deadly force:
1. Intent - Does the perp have intent to cause you or others harm?
2. Ability - Does the per have the physical ability to harm you or others?
3. Opportunity - Does the perp have the spacial ability (no barriers between you and them)?
4. Jeopardy - Does the perp give you no other opportunity to exit the situation?

Obviously you can't go through this list while in a highly intense situation.
However, these should be common sense and you should be able to go through them in a split second.

Because he was outside, breaking in, and the home owner couldn't see him, 1,2 and 3 were not obtainable.

If it were I in the same situation, I would have notified the person that I had a gun.
At least my conscience would be at ease after I took his life.

I am not of the shoot now, ask questions later bunch.

your instructor doesn't know the law very well. read below if i was in the homeowners shoes i would have blasted the guy as well. why because some guy was breaking into my home. ignoring my yells to leave. sorry but i have a wife and 3 kids and i would have protected them.

After several minutes the resident and his girlfriend saw the man run around to the back of the home. The resident positioned himself near the kitchen and saw the man at the back door. The man broke the lock on the back screen door, pulled open the screen door and began beating his fist on the back door. The man continued to yell obscenities. The man then broke out the pane of glass in the back door nearest to the dead bolt. The man put his arm in through the broken window and was using his hand to undo the deadbolt when the resident shot at the man three times with his revolver.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

/sarcasm meter dissolves in puff of white smoke

I'll never understand why the mods let racism like that go.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

/sarcasm meter dissolves in puff of white smoke

I'll never understand why the mods let racism like that go.

for trollhunter???......par for the course.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: edro
My concealed carry instructor taught these 4 precursors to using deadly force:
1. Intent - Does the perp have intent to cause you or others harm?
2. Ability - Does the per have the physical ability to harm you or others?
3. Opportunity - Does the perp have the spacial ability (no barriers between you and them)?
4. Jeopardy - Does the perp give you no other opportunity to exit the situation?

Obviously you can't go through this list while in a highly intense situation.
However, these should be common sense and you should be able to go through them in a split second.

Because he was outside, breaking in, and the home owner couldn't see him, 1,2 and 3 were not obtainable.

If it were I in the same situation, I would have notified the person that I had a gun.
At least my conscience would be at ease after I took his life.

I am not of the shoot now, ask questions later bunch.

your instructor doesn't know the law very well. read below if i was in the homeowners shoes i would have blasted the guy as well. why because some guy was breaking into my home. ignoring my yells to leave. sorry but i have a wife and 3 kids and i would have protected them.

After several minutes the resident and his girlfriend saw the man run around to the back of the home. The resident positioned himself near the kitchen and saw the man at the back door. The man broke the lock on the back screen door, pulled open the screen door and began beating his fist on the back door. The man continued to yell obscenities. The man then broke out the pane of glass in the back door nearest to the dead bolt. The man put his arm in through the broken window and was using his hand to undo the deadbolt when the resident shot at the man three times with his revolver.

yeap. the guy was breaking into the house. im not going to set there and see if he intends to cause me or my family harm (if he is breaking windows to get in i will take that as a yes he is going to casue harm). i will tell him to leave and if he does not then i whatever i feel needs to be done will be done.

 

[olds]

This is complete bullshit. The guy and his girlfriend were in no danger whatsoever. When the lost guy was knocking on the back door, the couple could have went out the front door and to a neighbors house to wait for the cops to get there. Let the professionals handle it.
This is a perfect example of why people shouldn't own guns. An unarmed man was killed by a warmongering, red neck.

I know if this would have happened at my house, I would have left a glass of warm milk and my slippers by the back door as I left via the front door.

/old atot response

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
This is complete bullshit. The guy and his girlfriend were in no danger whatsoever. When the lost guy was knocking on the back door, the couple could have went out the front door and to a neighbors house to wait for the cops to get there. Let the professionals handle it.
This is a perfect example of why people shouldn't own guns. An unarmed man was killed by a warmongering, red neck.

I know if this would have happened at my house, I would have left a glass of warm milk and my slippers by the back door as I left via the front door.

/old atot response

bhahahah at first reading it i was thinking "ok olds has finally fucking lost it" and "man what retard"

lol.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

sheesh, RTFA, he was drunk, not high on crack. Obviously white, not black.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The only thing that bothers me about that tape is the lack of the homeowner yelling "Go away! I have a gun!" or something to that effect.

I want to agree with that. But if you give a warning, you give the intruder the chance to make the first shot.

Shooting the intruder without warning doesn't give him a chance to shoot at you. Seems safer for the homeowner to not give the warning.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: amdhunter
Was the murder victim Black? If so, good. If he was White, it's messed up the shooter didn't give some kind of notice.

Unless the shooter was Black, then he should be jailed, regardless of what race the victim was.

sheesh, RTFA, he was drunk, not high on crack. Obviously white, not black.

oh ok now i get it. whites are drunks and blacks are high on crack. glad that was cleared up!

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Now, if you shout out and the guy keeps coming, by all means fire away. As for netwarehead's contention that you're giving away your posistion... whatever. Real life criminals aren't SOBER crack shots like in the movies. They're looking for a cheap score at a place they think is empty. (Or they think they are breaking into their own house) Your shout is 99:1 going to run the guy off. Yeah yeah, what about the :1? :roll: It's easy, you're already established in your position, aimed and ready... who is going to win that fight? Nobody is that quick on the draw.

Thinking that you are somehow superior because you are in the right could get you killed.

Darwin won this one.

he didnt say he would win due to being in the right, he stated he wouldnt give much away in regards to position, since the defender was already set up, locked loaded and aiming at the intruder. if im pointing a loaded gun at you and you have one in your belt, whats the chances you can pull, take safety off and fire before i pull that trigger?

that all said, id have yelled (and have, ive been in that situation before) before shooting him. id only shoot if that intruder was warned i was armed and still decided to continue into my domain. fortunately, every time ive been in that situation, the intruder has run off.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The only thing that bothers me about that tape is the lack of the homeowner yelling "Go away! I have a gun!" or something to that effect.

I want to agree with that. But if you give a warning, you give the intruder the chance to make the first shot.

Shooting the intruder without warning doesn't give him a chance to shoot at you. Seems safer for the homeowner to not give the warning.

Some of you need to read the whole post. If the guy is standing OUTSIDE your house and you're aimed, cocked and ready to go, what chance does he have if he tries to do something? Zero. The moment he flinches like he's going to try something you squeeze.

If the guy is INSIDE the house then you just drop him no questions asked (or warnings given).

I just think, in this instance, while the guy was outside the house sticking his arm through the door (no gun in his hand) the shooter should have said something.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I just think, in this instance, while the guy was outside the house sticking his arm through the door (no gun in his hand) the shooter should have said something.

And the guy having his hand inside trying to break in is justification for deadly force (depending on state). There's a difference when it comes to your home, your one place of supposed safety. Really the best course of action here is to eliminate the threat, that threat being somebody breaking into your home.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
This is complete bullshit. The guy and his girlfriend were in no danger whatsoever. When the lost guy was knocking on the back door, the couple could have went out the front door and to a neighbors house to wait for the cops to get there. Let the professionals handle it.
This is a perfect example of why people shouldn't own guns. An unarmed man was killed by a warmongering, red neck.

I know if this would have happened at my house, I would have left a glass of warm milk and my slippers by the back door as I left via the front door.

/old atot response

LOl good one

 

[oogabooga]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I just think, in this instance, while the guy was outside the house sticking his arm through the door (no gun in his hand) the shooter should have said something.

And the guy having his hand inside trying to break in is justification for deadly force (depending on state). There's a difference when it comes to your home, your one place of supposed safety. Really the best course of action here is to eliminate the threat, that threat being somebody breaking into your home.

I don't think whooz is disagreeing with you that you need to "eliminate the threat" only in this case he's saying that there is potentially a reasonable possibility this could have ended without deadly force. I see what he means that it seems there is the space at some point there could have been a "HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING", or flash some lights on in the house or something. Who knows, maybe there was such an attempt but it hasn't been noted in the article.

That being said, that course of action could lead us to reading an article about how a drunk guy with a gun broke into a house, killed the resident and his girlfriend because he thought they had broken into his house, and fell asleep. Hindsight is always sorta funny like that.

Personally : I do see that this could have ended better. I think the guy is justified in what he did and he doesn't seem like he took the first opportunity to shoot the guy. Letting him pound on the front door and waiting for him to get away is enough waiting imo. Letting him get to the backdoor and practically finish breaking in - I know why you fired.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I just think, in this instance, while the guy was outside the house sticking his arm through the door (no gun in his hand) the shooter should have said something.

And the guy having his hand inside trying to break in is justification for deadly force (depending on state). There's a difference when it comes to your home, your one place of supposed safety. Really the best course of action here is to eliminate the threat, that threat being somebody breaking into your home.

I agree. I don't think the homeowner should be prosecuted. Far from it. I've said that over and over. He was certainly justified to shoot and I agree with the spirit and letter of the so-called 'make my day' laws. You shouldn't have to wait to defend yourself.

It just seems to me, listening to the 911 call and putting a logical time-line of events together that the homeowner could have ended this without shooting anyone. I just think in this case, looking at the circumstances that are in front of me, he exercised poor judgement in not making at least one verbal attempt to run the guy off. That's all. I'm not condemning the guy. I'm just a little uncomfortable that he let things drag out for so long without saying anything.

(I used the words 'poor character' in a previous post - I meant to say poor judgement)

*looking up one post*

Pretty much what ooga said.

 

[rgwalt]

Originally posted by: NSFW

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

I really don't have a problem with shooting someone who is breaking into your house. None at all. I'm from Alaska for crying out loud.

It just seems to me that this guy was in the process of breaking in (while still outside the house) long enough for someone to dial 911, get an operator (that takes a while) and then spend 30 seconds talking to the operator and not once did the home owner make any kind of verbal warning or threat?

The guy was right to do what he did but yelling "I have a gun!" is usually enough to scare someone away. The idiot is still alive and the homeowner doesn't have to live with having taken a life.

Now, if you shout out and the guy keeps coming, by all means fire away. As for netwarehead's contention that you're giving away your posistion... whatever. Real life criminals aren't SOBER crack shots like in the movies. They're looking for a cheap score at a place they think is empty. (Or they think they are breaking into their own house) Your shout is 99:1 going to run the guy off. Yeah yeah, what about the :1? :roll: It's easy, you're already established in your position, aimed and ready... who is going to win that fight? Nobody is that quick on the draw. And if you see a firearm (which this guy did not in the [guessing] minute or so he was observing the drunk trying to break into his home) then obviously you skip the warning and just fire.

My opinion? The home owner was justified but was presented with a situation where he could leagally shoot someone and took advantage of that. In the back of his mind he had probably been waiting for something like this to happen.

The dead guy was terminated due to his own idiocy but I've not met many people who sit quitely while someone is breaking into their house, while they are still in it, for the length of time this guy was apparently working on the back door.

Like I said, he was justified but I definitely question his character.

Not to disagree, but I disagree. If someone is breaking in, I am going to assume they are armed and know how to use the gun. This isn't a Lethal Weapon movie where the bad guys fire 100 shots and miss every time but the good guy fires one shot and kills the bad guy from 100 yards out. Criminals have just as much experience with guns as everyone else. Thinking that you are somehow superior because you are in the right could get you killed.

Darwin won this one.

I'm with NSFW. I'm not going to risk my life to try and spare someone else's.

R