Maine Shooting dozens dead or injured.

[Denly]

That's an interesting statement in that it implies that individual shootings don't count.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that someone would bring up Chicago, so I'll go ahead and do that now. Roughly seven people are shot in Chicago every day, but it's never reported as a mass shooting, it's never reported nationally at all as far as I know. Why is that? Why is it that continuous random shootings are just a part of life but mass shootings capture the attention of the nation? One is a horrific crime that congress needs to address, and the other is business as usual. To me they're all a national disaster, be it seven a day or 20 all at once.

And the best way to counter gun violence is....gun control?

 

[sandorski]

That's an interesting statement in that it implies that individual shootings don't count.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that someone would bring up Chicago, so I'll go ahead and do that now. Roughly seven people are shot in Chicago every day, but it's never reported as a mass shooting, it's never reported nationally at all as far as I know. Why is that? Why is it that continuous random shootings are just a part of life but mass shootings capture the attention of the nation? One is a horrific crime that congress needs to address, and the other is business as usual. To me they're all a national disaster, be it seven a day or 20 all at once.

Chicago is 27th for Murder.

 

[Brovane]

This is becoming a regular occurrence, some nut with a AR.

 

[Leeea]

See, I'm on the other side. I think that some 95%+ of Americans are mentally ill, our standard for 'mentally ill but functional' is just super fucked. I've been very vocal on this board about how I feel regarding firearms, and while some elements of that have adjusted I'm still pretty pro-2A. That said, there's very, very clear instances where even the slightest modicum of effort could have avoided a situation. A self-report of 'hearing voices' should be one of those instances where firearms are confiscated and kept away from the individual until such time as they are deemed healthy.

Hearing voices is not nearly as bad as you think it is.

ok, it is, it absolutely is.

A self-report of 'hearing voices' should be one of those instances where firearms are confiscated and kept away from the individual until such time as they are deemed healthy.

because it is self reported, under current law they will not confiscate or lose any rights, I learned that myself in a similar situation

That said, there's very, very clear instances where even the slightest modicum of effort could have avoided a situation.

It is incredibly difficult to actually do this. People who tend to have these mental health disorders tend to be a on the paranoid side. So I can assure you simply searching their home is not going to turn up any firearms. Also, paranoia tends to attract ... yea, you get where this is going.

I've been very vocal on this board about how I feel regarding firearms, and while some elements of that have adjusted I'm still pretty pro-2A.

honestly, the only real solution is to just ban them all. Like you said:

I think that some 95%+ of Americans are mentally ill

A person receiving mental health care is better off then 95% of America. Because at least they are getting treatment. I get reevaluated every week.


But is the 2nd amendment really worth it for 5% of the population? What is the point?

 

[Meghan54]

The states with the highest murder rates in the United States are (1-10) Louisiana, Missouri, South Carolina, Arkansas, Tennessee, Alaska, Maryland, Oklahoma, Mississippi and North Carolina.

But to listen to the cons, it’s IL (Chicago) and CA (LA primarily).

Odd neither appear in any list of most dangerous/most homicides/most violent crime cities/states.

 

[Leeea]

Odd neither appear in any list of most dangerous/most homicides/most violent crime cities/states.

I have always found it interesting the entire state of Louisiana has a murder rate higher then the worst hood in Chicago.

 

[MrSquished]

So why stay? There are dozens of places you could move to. I'm sure at least a few would align with your idea of what a proper nation should be.

Yeah! If your roof is leaking and you need new siding on the house, just LEAVE! Don't try to fix it just head out!

Fucking moron.

 

[IronWing]

I have always found it interesting the entire state of Louisiana has a murder rate higher then the worst hood in Chicago.

Humidity changes a person. Every person you meet has the worst crotch rot imaginable. It doesn't take much to push them over the edge.

 

[HomerJS]

And the best way to counter gun violence is....gun control?

The 1994 assault weapons ban was successful.

Is the best way to counter gun violence is more guns?

 

[Thump553]

It hasn't been brought up here yet, but the first place he shot up (and where most of the shootings occurred) was a bowling alley. The local news here is talking about at least 50-60 shot and that a nearby middle school has been opened up for parents to gather. Pure speculation but it looks to me like there will be a lot of kids as victims (again).

PS: re mental health, don't forget that Trump and his GOP cronies made it one of their first tasks to REPEAL a requirement for mental health checks to buy firearms: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

 

[HomerJS]

So why stay? There are dozens of places you could move to. I'm sure at least a few would align with your idea of what a proper nation should be.

I find it interesting that your definition of a proper nation is unfettered access to all guns.

Parents of the Sandy Hook victims would disagree with you.

 

[akugami]

And the best way to counter gun violence is....gun control?

The answer is always prayer. Always.

 

[Stokely]

Interesting, that area (near Portland) is one I've sorta thought about when I finally leave this Desantis/Trump-loving "stand your ground" swamp.

Maybe this means that it will be really safe now, after all what are the chances two gun nuts shoot up the same spot?

Funny, the nuts are right when they say things are really dangerous out there--of course, they are using it as justification for their toys, while to me they are the reason things are dangerous...

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If 95% are mentally ill, how do you even define "normal", when "normal" is defined as the median and within 1-2 standard deviations?

We could just put a stop to this by limiting access to guns in the first place and stop playing up to people's fantasies of being some sort of guerilla Star Wars rebel against the government and whatnot.

The problem is the guns and access to them. Always has been. Everything else is just lipstick on a pig.

'Normal' is mentally ill, using the common standard of the word. I'm not for selling firearms to normal people, I'm for selling them to healthy people.

Alright, get to work on limiting access to firearms. We'll see if we get a constitutional amendment before a) a revolution splits the country or b) climate change kills us all.

 

[HomerJS]

Listening to the radio the host characterized the failure of the US to pass any meaningful gun safety regulation is a societal problem. WRONG. It's a Republican Party problem. You can add all the people who vote for Republicans that refuse to enact safety laws.

Polling is clear: Americans want gun control

Politicians diverge from voters when it comes to preventing gun deaths.

www.vox.com

 

[Leeea]

according to WaPo the person has not been caught:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/10/25/lewiston-maine-shooting-live-updates/

 

[Brainonska511]

Alright, get to work on limiting access to firearms. We'll see if we get a constitutional amendment before a) a revolution splits the country or b) climate change kills us all.

Yes, let's just throw up our hands and do nothing because it's too hard to even try.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, let's just throw up our hands and do nothing because it's too hard to even try.

Hey, those are your words, not mine. I already identified something that should change in this very thread. I've got more ideas but they always get shit on by people who just want to stop shootings with no ideas how to do it beyond 'change the constitution'.

 

[Pens1566]

Bringing up Chicago in a discussion on gun violence is usually a great way to instantly know someone has no idea what they're talking about. Almost a perfect litmus test.

 

[Brainonska511]

Hey, those are your words, not mine. I already identified something that should change in this very thread. I've got more ideas but they always get shit on by people who just want to stop shootings with no ideas how to do it beyond 'change the constitution'.

Change the constitution, put laws in place that limit the types of guns people can buy, make guns more expensive, more waiting periods and extensive background checks, change the supreme court to one that would roll back Heller, etc... Hell, go abstract and have a state pass a law that says everyone over 18 is now a part of the state militia, and as a regulation on the militia, only the State armory may maintain firearms, and private storage is forbidden, just to play up the the "originality" meaning of the 2A.

The Constitution isn't a stone tablet with immutable meaning. It just has whatever meaning we choose to give it and what some politicians in robes say.

 

[HomerJS]

Bringing up Chicago in a discussion on gun violence is usually a great way to instantly know someone has no idea what they're talking about. Almost a perfect litmus test.

My over/under on right wing media or Republican being up Chicago is 2 days which is EOD tomorrow.

The betting is open

 

[Pens1566]

My over/under on right wing media or Republican being up Chicago is 2 days which is EOD tomorrow.

The betting is open

Under. Hard. Easy money.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Change the constitution, put laws in place that limit the types of guns people can buy, make guns more expensive, more waiting periods and extensive background checks, change the supreme court to one that would roll back Heller.

The Constitution isn't a stone tablet with immutable meaning. It just has whatever meaning we choose to give it and what some politicians in robes say.

In our current political climate, it may as well be chiseled in stone brought down from the mount. I don't see current SC changing the rules, and we're probably not up for any shift in the SC for what, another 10 or so? so that shoves out types of guns, or undue financial burden on firearms. I agree with waiting periods and background checks, and it should probably go beyond that. I don't know if that specifically would sneak past the SC but it's probably worth a try. Just have to get the House into a non shit state, get agreement from the senate, and finally not get 'fuck you'd' by the sitting president.

 

[fskimospy]

Quick question - is it too soon after the tragedy to discuss gun control or is the tragedy far enough behind us now that there's no need to discuss gun control?

 

[Brainonska511]

In our current political climate, it may as well be chiseled in stone brought down from the mount. I don't see current SC changing the rules, and we're probably not up for any shift in the SC for what, another 10 or so? so that shoves out types of guns, or undue financial burden on firearms. I agree with waiting periods and background checks, and it should probably go beyond that. I don't know if that specifically would sneak past the SC but it's probably worth a try. Just have to get the House into a non shit state, get agreement from the senate, and finally not get 'fuck you'd' by the sitting president.

I say stop being afraid to act and pass laws because SCoTUS has decided to take a radical approach to interpreting the Constitution.