Maggie Gallagher giving up on optimism

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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http://www.advocate.com/politics/ma.../read-last-syndicated-column-maggie-gallagher

Her full column: http://www.uexpress.com/maggiegallagher/

The founder of the antigay National Organization for Marriage, Maggie Gallagher, wrote her last syndicated advice column on Wednesday and announced she was giving up optimism.

Gallager's column has run in various publications for 17 years, where she espoused her conservative, and often antigay, beliefs. Gallagher has long been the face of the anti-marriage equality movement, appearing on talk shows and news programs. In her final column, Gallagher admits much of her work has proved fruitless. "On every key measure, marriage is weaker," she writes. "The consequences are more obviously unsustainable, yet culturally powerful voices are less willing to engage, and the power of porn and Hollywood to create our norms for family life is more triumphant than ever."

Gallagher believes men must lead all households, which must consist of a husband, a wife, and children.

"Without a powerful ideal of masculinity that points men toward marriage and fatherhood, more and more young men are deciding the hard work of becoming marriageable is not worth it: Porn, beer, video games with the guys, freedom and fleeting sexual encounters are good enough.

The most urgent overlooked need is the deep need of boys for masculine ideals. If civilization refuses to provide any, porn and video-game makers will step in to fill the gap.

Why should young men work hard to become protectors and defenders of women and children when American culture -- and women -- tells them they are not needed in either role?"

Gallagher seems to believe marriage is not pleasant — for straights or gays — but must be endured: "Men and women are different. A society that pretends otherwise is not going to raise boys to be loving, reliable family men. Marriage is about settling for less but raising up an ideal much bigger and more important even than the most urgent whispered promises of romantic love."

Gallagher closes her column by saying she's giving up on optimism, but remaining hopeful that her life's mission is taken up by others.

Good riddance. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, douchenozzle.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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She's absolutely right, good column by her. I don't agree with a lot of the religious bs she espouses, but she's right.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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She's absolutely right, good column by her. I don't agree with a lot of the religious bs she espouses, but she's right.

No she's not. She apparently believes that society is incapable of thriving without the things she thinks are necessary. That's a very narrow and historically unreliable view of society.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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No she's not. She apparently believes that society is incapable of thriving without the things she thinks are necessary. That's a very narrow and historically unreliable view of society.

What she says has merit, you just don't agree with it.

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Just say "it's not my cup o' tea", or that you disagree.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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What she says has merit, you just don't agree with it.

It doesn't have merit at all. It is not demonstrably factual or exclusively the only viable course for society to follow.

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Just say "it's not my cup o' tea", or that you disagree.

I'll say what I want about her wrong ideas, and I don't care if you have a problem with that.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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I dont think what she says is necessarily wrong. We just dont know the long term consequences of the data yet. A glimpse we can look to get some insight is the black community. They have a staggering amount of children born to single mothers. And the consequences don't look good.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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I'll say what I want about her wrong ideas, and I don't care if you have a problem with that.

I have a problem with you gays thinking everyone will be better off adopting your views, and that we should change for the sake of change, no matter how well off traditional marriages work for countless families. No, it's not prefect, but what is? Gay marriages?

You fail...
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
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I have a problem with you gays thinking everyone will be better off adopting your views, and that we should change for the sake of change, no matter how well off traditional marriages work for countless families. No, it's not prefect, but what is? Gay marriages?

I couldn't care less if everyone adopted my views. I do care, however, when their unjustified restrictions are forced on me by law/government.

They can be against gay marriage all they want, but that doesn't mean they get to enact that view into law.

You fail...

Talking about yourself again, I see...
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
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My home state of Massachusetts, which was the first state to hand out gay marriage licenses, is often number 1 in lowest divorce rate in the US (depending on the year). Ironically, red states, where gay marraige is illegal, tend to have the highest divorce rates.

Conservatives need to stfu about this issue.

edit:

Divorce hurts children; it also breaks apart life's most precious commitment -- a family.

LMFAO, maybe you should point a finger at your precious conservative states you fucking imbecile.
 
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kia75

Senior member
Oct 30, 2005
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What she says has merit, you just don't agree with it.

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Just say "it's not my cup o' tea", or that you disagree.

I wish Maggie Gallagher would follow your advice. Maggie Gallagher doesn't agree with the lifestyle of my friends and family, but that doesn't mean my friends and family are wrong. If she'd just say "its not my cup o' tea" or disagree with us then we'd have no problem.

But Maggie Gallagher is trying to prevent my friends and family from finding happiness, and she's trying to change the law to do it.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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What do you think are the odds that she's never had an orgasm?

Pretty poor, probably. It wouldn't surprise me at all that in private she is very much the opposite of how she acts and what she says in public.
 

finglobes

Senior member
Dec 13, 2010
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Gay marriage is a mutation that only takes place in an unhealthy social organism. Its no accident gay marriage is cropping up just as America is crashing and burning. First normal marriage was debased ("Its just a piece of paper!") and now its reincarnated as the most special thing in the world - but for homosexuals. I mean its all farce. Any day there will be a new AIDS from the gay populations except everyone might catch that disease and then their will be rage. Just like market bubbles nature and society make corrections and when it does it can be catastrophic. Clock is ticking.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
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finglobes

Let me know if I understand you right. You believe that AIDS is part of an environmental change that will weed out gay people from the general population? This is your "natural correction".
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
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She might have a bit of a point about there being listless young men and thus more disjointed family units. There does seem to be a trend of young men not really having a great sense of purpose versus in the past. I have no idea what gay people getting married has to do with that though. The posted rant seemed more like she was focusing on blaming porn, beer and video games. Hobbies, drinking and masturbation have all been available to men in some form or the other since the dawn of civilization so I don't put a whole lot of stock in that theory though.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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I care little about gay marriage either way. She is right however to be concerned about marriage and it is not even a debatable issue about its merits to children. Illegits and children of divorced parents fare far worse life in essentially all ways and to a large degree, when studied as a group.

Anything that weakens marriage in general is a terrible affliction on society.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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I have a problem with you gays thinking everyone will be better off adopting your views, and that we should change for the sake of change, no matter how well off traditional marriages work for countless families. No, it's not prefect, but what is? Gay marriages?

You fail...
Hold on a second. How is gay marriage changing the idea of traditional marriage for countless families? My brother is married to a woman and they have two kids; a pretty traditional nuclear family. If the laws were changed so that his mother, a lesbian, could have married her partner, how does that change his traditional marriage? He's still married to a woman, they still have their children, but now his mother gets to enjoy those same benefits of marriage as well. That's win-win in my book.

Whenever I hear someone make the claim that legalizing gay marriage is somehow going to affect all these traditional marriages that people are already in, it makes me wonder if they're only in a heterosexual relationship right now because they're supposed to be. Legalizing gay marriage won't turn you gay, just like legalizing pot won't turn you into a junkie or legalizing country music won't make you racist. It's a preposterous claim that allowing other people to enjoy the rights you enjoy is somehow cheapening the experience for you.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
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finglobes

Let me know if I understand you right. You believe that AIDS is part of an environmental change that will weed out gay people from the general population? This is your "natural correction".

It's just embarrassing watching these bitch idiot conservatives post. Even if every gay person was wiped out today, it's not like gay people won't be born to replace them.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
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Hold on a second. How is gay marriage changing the idea of traditional marriage for countless families? My brother is married to a woman and they have two kids; a pretty traditional nuclear family. If the laws were changed so that his mother, a lesbian, could have married her partner, how does that change his traditional marriage? He's still married to a woman, they still have their children, but now his mother gets to enjoy those same benefits of marriage as well. That's win-win in my book.

That isn't what I said (or meant, hopefully).

Come to think about it, I could have misunderstood him.. however, the argument against traditional marriage (one man, one woman) is often based on divorce rates. So I was saying that despite how high those rates are for those in traditional marriages, they work out just fine for others.

In a nutshell, just becasue heteor couple divorce more, doesn't mean the alternative will be a cure-all. Arguments are often formed on those grounds.

Marriage isn't about "Love" either. It's about your attitude toward it, and if you're willing to change/compromise.
 
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jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
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Gay marriage is a mutation that only takes place in an unhealthy social organism. Its no accident gay marriage is cropping up just as America is crashing and burning. First normal marriage was debased ("Its just a piece of paper!") and now its reincarnated as the most special thing in the world - but for homosexuals. I mean its all farce. Any day there will be a new AIDS from the gay populations except everyone might catch that disease and then their will be rage. Just like market bubbles nature and society make corrections and when it does it can be catastrophic. Clock is ticking.

That would explain why gay marriage was also such a prominent issue during the civil war, great depression, cold war, etc.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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I care little about gay marriage either way. She is right however to be concerned about marriage and it is not even a debatable issue about its merits to children. Illegits and children of divorced parents fare far worse life in essentially all ways and to a large degree, when studied as a group.

Anything that weakens marriage in general is a terrible affliction on society.
This, exactly. I think she is wrong however that gay marriage is a threat to regular marriage, just as my neighbor's ball bat does not lessen my Second Amendment rights. And the principle - that government should not be free to discriminate, even with the majority's approval, without a compelling societal need that can only be fulfilled with that discrimination - is very important indeed. That principle defines our society far more than does whether or not gays can marry.

I only regularly socialize with three gay men, two of them a couple. One has children by a previous marriage and has them regularly. They are lovely, very personable and seemingly well-adjusted children and I don't think their father has any difficulty in providing a suitable masculine role model. For that matter, his partner is sufficiently masculine that if I did not know he was gay I would not automatically assume it. The third is very, um, flamboyant, but in many ways can still provide a masculine role model and, even more important, a good person role model. There are a lot of factors in masculinity and while I share Gallagher's concern about how our society is trying to ignore differences between men and women, forcing an idealization on everyone is not a good solution. One size does not fit all, and people that fit into society perfectly well as they are may not well fit into a stereotypical role, let alone be happy in it.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,688
6,737
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It is always painful when the morality you were raised with from childhood and which gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling makes you good, you find out as an adult other people consider to be a pile of shit and likely is.

Marriage is about proclaiming the sacredness of your love for another before the symbol of sacredness, to make a spiritual compact, to symbolize externally how you feel internally, that love gives a feeling of divine mystery to those who feel it. Naturally, a lot of people, when they are spiritually empty, just go through the motions. As always, the issue is not the nature of the values we proclaim as real in a society that matters, but that we are mentally healthy enough to be able to feel the wonder and beauty of life. It really makes little difference, I think, who you love and want to commit your life to, but that, if you feel that, you can do it. It is just not very nice of straight people to say the love they feel for another, others can't also feel for another if the same sex. Sexual orientation does not seem to be a matter of choice.
 

OlafSicky

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2011
2,364
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I have been all over this issue . Now I think that this whole gay marriage debate is pointless right now. Within a couple of decades there will be a bigger issue emerging whether parents have the right of changing their babies sexual orientation. The fast pace bio research has been going at now is astounding. In my humble opinion there will be a "pill" that will change this. I wouldn't be surprised if 30 years from now no gay people were born.
Maggie Gallagher has the right to her opinions she might be wrong or her views might not be fashionable but we do have free speech.