Mac Vs. PC

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Umberger
My brother just got a new 20" iMac G5. want to know what he does with it?
1)AIM
2)E-mail
3)MS Word.

To its credit, the thing has never frozen or crashed, the case is awesome looking, and the visual effects are stunning. Also, it comes with a really neat game, where you roll a marble around a map and collect gems. Is this worth almost $3000? I think not. But for $3000 I would think that they could give me a fvcking 2 button mouse.
I think a lot of what people are paying for is the ease of use of OSX. That operating system babies you, and won't let you screw anything up. It drives me nuts, but little bro seems to like the fact that he can't break stuff by messing with settings.

Hey that game sounds like it rules! Do you think someone might port it for Windows some time soon? Or do you advise me to spend $3000 on a G5 iMac to be able to play it?

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat
From a hardware perspective, the G5 doesn't have anything on Athlon 64/Opteron, but for people who have special software needs (a very small percentage of people) they have to go with Macs.

For the vast majority of people, PCs do a lot more for less $. Plus, I don't like not having control over my system, which is what OSx does, preventing people from utilizing the system. Of course, Windows is on it's merry way to that too.

Be smart. Use Linux LoL.

You're right actually about Windows. Freaking SP2 is so bad that I can't believe it gets so much support on a "geek site" like this. You'd think that we'd know better. However I can see how the resident sysadmins love it.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat
Very true. If you're into gaming, the A64 is for you. For encoding, possibly a G5 or P4. But I think that most scientific number crunching is left to 4-way+ Opteron systems or SPARCS.

Well, if you can afford a 4-way Opteron then great, but those are $$$$$. Two-way machines are sufficient for a lot of people, and much less costly.

True, but serious scientific simulations are not done on Macs, that's for sure. And a high-end Mac is roughly $4,000. If I were doing simulations all day, I'd put that money toward an Opteron system instead.

SPARCs don't typically do calculations. That isn't even close to their strong point. The 8-way processors might help, but it's still not their specialty.

Alphas were the proc to do with, but they're dead. Thanks Intel!

Opterons and POWER processors are the way to go for crunching server. Macs are also popular choices for workstations. Virginia Tech has some neat ideas though...

Actually, SPARCs are wonderful for massive multithreaded simulations, they offer far better performance than other similar machines. Nearly all complex engineering and physics simulations are run on SPARCs. Of course, try running a single threaded app on a SPARC, and it would be slower than molasses in January.

SPARC Comp Link

As for Macs, the only people who need them are those who either can't operate a PC or have special software needs.

For $3.5k, I can build one heck of a dual Opteron system that would beat any Mac hands down, even running apps that used to favor Macs, e.g. Photoshop. So why spend $3-4k for Mac when there is clearly a better alternative.

You could build one sure, but truth be told most university science departments will not allow someone to build a computer because they would rather pay extra for the service and support that comes with a brand name machine. Who is responsible for the built machine when something goes wrong?

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: crabbyman
I am one of the people apple would like to call a "convert." I was a OCer for a while..but it got old. The final nail in the coffin for me was when HL went the way of STEAM...and there was no high speed internet here. I was doing good on pre-STEAM HL with my 56k with latency of 90ms - 150ms. The second STEAM came around it shot up to 1500ms. ..to top it off my motherboard died soon after. So I decided to jump ship and try a mac. I got an iBook and love it. I like OS X. I am not and never will be interested in coding or anything of the nature. I looked into starting it and really didn't enjoy it. I like the feel and organization of OS X. Sure I maybe paid more for my iBook than someone who bought a budget Windows lappy last year, but to me its worth it. Also..Expose...got to love it! Especially in Photoshop or anything where you have many documents open at once. I really got tired of the Windows world of having to take care of the clutter every week. I'm not anti PC..just haven't seen anything worthwhile in my book. Like above...show me a CHEAP AMD 64 lappy with EXCELLENT battery life, light weight, and I might flop back over. Another thing is I like how quiet all the Mac I use are. That was one of the things that got tiring on PCs.

I seriously considered a 12" Powerbook also (but didn't get it unfortunately). I really think the 12" Powerbook is a bargain for what it is (the iBook even more so). A comparable PC ultralight machine from either IBM or Dell costs around $2300.

However, I just couldn't make the jump this time, and I'm glad I didn't as my school does everything on Windows software. So I ended up spending $2300 for an IBM X31. I'm glad I spent the extra money as I love my X31, but seriously for anyone looking for a laptop for regular internet surfing, word processing, e-mail, DVD playback, minor ripping and encoding etc. The 12" Apple motebook are an unbeatable value bar none. Nobody else makes such thin and light machines with top notch build quality for that price.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Actually the man is a genius, but admin is not his primary role--science is. I have said it before and will say it again. Everything on this mac (dual 2GHz, 1.5 blah, blah) runs noticably slower than my 3500+ winnie, blah blah. I do the same sheet on BOTH machines EVERY day, why would admin stuff change this? Hell, im the admin, care to make optimization suggestions? Because this machine has not been messed with since it came outta the box. What kind of macophile is gonna drop to command line to optimize?

You can be a genius and still be a moron when it comes to administration.

I don't know any "macophiles." I'm not even sure what that is...

Everyone I know that has an Apple machine is a unix guy, so the cli is natural.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: sxr7171
However, I just couldn't make the jump this time, and I'm glad I didn't as my school does everything on Windows software.

Any school that limits itself to one platform isn't worth going to.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: sxr7171
However, I just couldn't make the jump this time, and I'm glad I didn't as my school does everything on Windows software.

Any school that limits itself to one platform isn't worth going to.

My sister goes to the Health Science Center, to become a Dentist. She had a choice between choosing a Windows platform notebook, or an Apple. She chose the 12'' iBook. She loves it.

 

[Aquila76]

Originally posted by: sxr7171
Hey that game sounds like it rules! Do you think someone might port it for Windows some time soon? Or do you advise me to spend $3000 on a G5 iMac to be able to play it?

I can save you $2,980.05:

http://www.shockwave.com/sw/content/marbleblast

 

[bluemax]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Opteron all the way baby.

The Dual Italy Opteron upgrade path is gonna make me pity the Mac-fanboy photoshop fool .

Don't mince words, Bones, tell us what you REALLY think!

 

[bobsmith1492]

Do macs have a serial port and are there C compilers available? I'm pretty sure every single program we use in the EGR department here won't work on a mac...

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: ohnnyj
Cost prohibitive to many as well.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
Do macs have a serial port and are there C compilers available? I'm pretty sure every single program we use in the EGR department here won't work on a mac...

USB to serial converters work just fine, and gcc is the official compiler shipped with Mac OS X.

 

[DanDaMan315]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat
From a hardware perspective, the G5 doesn't have anything on Athlon 64/Opteron, but for people who have special software needs (a very small percentage of people) they have to go with Macs.

For the vast majority of people, PCs do a lot more for less $. Plus, I don't like not having control over my system, which is what OSx does, preventing people from utilizing the system. Of course, Windows is on it's merry way to that too.

Be smart. Use Linux LoL.

You're right actually about Windows. Freaking SP2 is so bad that I can't believe it gets so much support on a "geek site" like this. You'd think that we'd know better. However I can see how the resident sysadmins love it.

SP2 seems like a nice improvement to me...

 

[imported_fictionised]

Originally posted by: SLCentral
Games + Macs = No. Everything else is so kick ass on a Mac, but not because of the hardware, but because of the OS. Top of the line Opterons will beat the G5 in most things.

Things are changing- give it 5 years max, and Apple will have a good share of the gaming market.

Also, Tiger will whip anything out there

 

[Boze]

Originally posted by: fictionised

Originally posted by: SLCentral
Games + Macs = No. Everything else is so kick ass on a Mac, but not because of the hardware, but because of the OS. Top of the line Opterons will beat the G5 in most things.

Things are changing- give it 5 years max, and Apple will have a good share of the gaming market.

Also, Tiger will whip anything out there

I can see that your username serves you well, fictionised, because those statistics are completely made up... in fact, most trends are pointing the opposite, according to Forbes' & Fortune's predictions, which clearly have shown Apple's share of the PC world dwindling down further and further... it used to be what a few years ago? About 5% I think? Now its around 2.98% or something similar? Contrary to popular belief, all the iPods and iTunes in the world aren't going to bring market share up to a "good" amount, especially in the ridiculously laughable area of gaming performance... you'd have to be a pretty hardcore grade-A fact ignoring person to buy a Mac for gaming over a PC... its practically unheard of.

And as far as Tiger goes... well styistically and such, yeah, it might be a great OS, but it still won't recapture the market from Windows (or Linux, and as I write that, I laugh out loud to think that Linux has more users than OS X).

I personally think the best move Apple could ever make to regain market share would be to take OS X and make it work on x86 hardware, i.e., Intel & AMD processors, while opening up the internal workings of the system to geeks like us. I would probably switch from Windows to OS X if it would run on The Behemoth.

 

[hopejr]

Originally posted by: Boze
I personally think the best move Apple could ever make to regain market share would be to take OS X and make it work on x86 hardware, i.e., Intel & AMD processors, while opening up the internal workings of the system to geeks like us. I would probably switch from Windows to OS X if it would run on The Behemoth.

I suppose you don't realise that the only part of OS X that isn't open source is the GUI (Aqua), while the rest of it is? There's the internal workings of the system for you. That's why there is heaps of geeks moving to OS X (oh, I suppose you didn't realise that either).
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Aquila76

Originally posted by: sxr7171
Hey that game sounds like it rules! Do you think someone might port it for Windows some time soon? Or do you advise me to spend $3000 on a G5 iMac to be able to play it?

I can save you $2,980.05:

http://www.shockwave.com/sw/content/marbleblast

I was being sarcastic.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: sxr7171
However, I just couldn't make the jump this time, and I'm glad I didn't as my school does everything on Windows software.

Any school that limits itself to one platform isn't worth going to.

My sister goes to the Health Science Center, to become a Dentist. She had a choice between choosing a Windows platform notebook, or an Apple. She chose the 12'' iBook. She loves it.

I also go to Dental school incidentally, and we don't really get that choice. If I really wanted to I could have gone Apple and supported myself and bought extra software on my dime to run with Apple but I don't see the hassle and cost as worth it. I actually chose my laptop before I knew which school I was going to and I chose the IBM anyway because it was going to be my work laptop (as opposed to my hobby desktop). I needed it to run the programs I need for school and to get the functionality I need to interface with my phone and PDA among other things that are more cheaply and efficiently accomplished on a PC.

I would take a Mac mini for a second hobby desktop though just to mess with.

Usually professional schools don't have the sort of IT infrastructure to support both Macs and PCs anymore. It costs a lot to run a Dental school and supporting Macs probably would have cost us extra on our software licenses, not to mention have staff to support Macs on site all for the 5% who would have preferred them.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Heen05
Ok, what im trying to say is, WHY isnt a top of the line mac G5 as good as a PC at doing things (even just regular PCs)? Theoretically shouldn't it be much better?

It is. Games just aren't optimized for Mac's. A G5 and special Dual G5's would be overkill for most users.

No, its not. My G5 is NOTICABLY slower than my 3500+ Winnie.

 

[wakawaka]

Wow, this is a touchy subject for a lot of you folks, lol

 

[alocurto]

How about everyone gets what they think is best and we never have this crap posted again.

 

[arcangel]

nobody holding anyone to buy apple or pc. so why waste convincing people tht x is better than y.if i think x is better il buy it and use it and i dont care why the person sitting next to me using y cause he believes im a fool using x...lol....

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: ksuWildcat
Very true. If you're into gaming, the A64 is for you. For encoding, possibly a G5 or P4. But I think that most scientific number crunching is left to 4-way+ Opteron systems or SPARCS.

Well, if you can afford a 4-way Opteron then great, but those are $$$$$. Two-way machines are sufficient for a lot of people, and much less costly.

That isn't going to be hard since the dual core opterons will bearriving and still much more affordable for the cpus....What is the G5's going to do against dual opterons each with 2 cores...still 2 sockets.....I smell a major smackdown here....The cost upgrade will still keep it in line with dual 2.7s.....


I hear in another thread that Epsiode III of Star wars, Sin City, and some of the upcoming dreamworks movies are done using AMD opteron systems.....I would think dual core is really going to help this....

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: Thin Lizzy
400mhz to 500mhz doesn't cost several hundreds. You are over exaggerating. I don't insist on Apple memory. I'd rather have Crucial. Apple's wireless mouse and keyboard is too expensive. $69 for a wireless 1 button mouse isn't worth it.

If you go to any hardcore PC website, they will only show the PC's winning. The most reputable site for Mac vs PC is Barefeats.

Where do you find processor upgrades for less than $100? I recall Sonnet upgrade cards for a Mac I woked on starting at $249.99 for a 600mhz G3 Processor Card. This was for a 200mhz leap. The price might have went down but looking at their website I don't see any upgrade for less than $149.99.

Why are you only looking at Sonnet? And 249 is ridiculous for a G3 upgrade, 600mhz. OWC has a G4 upgrade for the PM G3 for $129.

There is a difference between "several hundreds" and hundred dollars. Can you explain how 149 falls under several hundred dollars?

On the PC side of things I can find a P3 or a K6 for less than $40 with shipping. $329.00 for a 1.1ghz upgrade? Try about $45 for an Athlon for the same speed. Yea you can upgrade a Mac but how many kids can one sell to do it.

Most serious Mac Heads ride the cutting edge and sell off their old parts as they go along. Upgrading a Mac is typically not financially feasable and has a terrible return on investment.

AMD's Socket 939 should be the best platform as far as forward-thinking goes. Socket 940 looks as though it's going to rival Socket A as being the most upgradable platform of all time.

If I could get any of my engineering software to run on a Mac I would buy one of their laptops in a heartbeat. As it stands right now, Mac laptops are only good as presentation machines. Graphic designers love them. Writers love them. Architects and Engineers have very little use for them.

Dispite saying all that, the only laptop I would ever buy would be a Mac. There's something to be said for superb industrial design when you're working on a laptop.

I agree....That said no laptop as very much use for me.....dual core dual opterons for me, thank you...

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
I love my Powermac G5 - but then again all I use it for is getting creative work done. I work with heavy applications ranging from audio, design, animation and film - and most often multitasking between them. The Mac is the perfect environment for me to create efficiently without worrying about crashes, spyware, incompatabilities, etc. I get work done on my Mac. Period.

But you've got no idea how much I wish that I still had my PC so that I could play some HL2 and CS:Source.

that's more of a personal problem, because there are many of us who don't have to worry about any of that stuff running pcs.