Mac user needs help picking a motherboard

[mosco]

I am not really going from a PC to a Mac because my main System will still be my mac but i just want the pc because it can encode divx and copy dvds better.

 

[Buz2b]

Well, I guess it's like the old saying, "Whatever floats your boat!" But don't be suprised if you find yourself using the PC more and more. Good luck!

 

[mosco]

i almost forgot again, thanks for all the help. we will see how much money i can scrape together and whether i have enough for a graphics card or if i can borrow one from somebuddy. But as of right now, the MSI looks good with its VGA and s-video out alling the connection to my tv until i can afford i nicer card. With my luck, by the time i am ready to buy one of these boards, new models will be out and i will have to go through all this again.

Trust me, I doubt i will be using the pc more and more. I use windows 2000 everyday at school and java class. I can honestly say i hate everything about windows from the folder structure to the way applications take up the whole screen. But i have come to the realization that windows has is uses and some people like its clean cutness better the smooth GUi of a mac. Plus i plan on going to Computer engineering so its probably important to know the ins and outs of windows xp. Anyone know how much a student copy of windows xp pro costs?

 

[Buz2b]

You can get an "Academic" version of XP PRO upgrade on this site for under $90. Upgrade just means you need to have a copy of Win98, 98SE, ME, NT Workstation, Win2000, or XP Home to do the install. You don't have to actually have one of those installed either. All you need to do is boot to the CD first and start the install, then just have a CD (of one of the other OS's) ready when it asks for proof of eligibility for upgrade.

 

[Buz2b]

Found a less costly one. Try here. $82 plus $4 shipping.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: mosco
yeah, i am a poor high school student and i spent all the money i made last summer on a new mac and then my christmas money on home theater speakers so at the moment i am short on cash.

Hey, I know what that's like.... i too am a high school senior and i just built an entire loaded pc (with the *platform* segment of my profile forthcoming... temp parts in now) with just the money i got from unloading the equity of my mac's upgrades on ebay. it was over 500$ for:

an overclocked 550mhz g4 zif processor card (@600mhz)
a radeon classic pci
a mac sound blaster live (retail 120 for almost the same thing) and
2 128meg sticks of pc100 (which i actually sold for a whopping 30$ a piece on ebay)

I really recomend that if you want a good pc, you cash out of your mac. it should be able to buy you the best pc on the market easily and still put you on a caribean cruise for 2 for senior week.

have fun

 

[mosco]

well, i don't think i am going to sell mac, but i forget that i do have some stuff i sell on ebay like a radeon PCI and some other astuff i forgot i had

Its funny though looking back at the purchases i have made in the last 6 months and saying, "why did i buy that".

like buying 70 dollars worth of optical cable, or 100 dollars on xbox games that i still have not played even though i bought them months ago, etc.

 

[mosco]

Would the MSI one i had above be better than a Aopen model that the exact same features.

 

[toilet]

mosco I ám a MAC user actually, I am graphic designer and 3d content creation... Look I work with mac but when I work in fash and internet I need a PC so I build a lot of them but Always have problem when I work .... but.. when put my hand in a nforce 2 motherboard my live change ... YEs never hav problems with stability or corrupt renders etc..
So you need a asus or abit board a tbred or barton xp and buala!!!!!!!... ahhh buy good memory I thing like a DDR 333 be ok!!! but 2x 256Mb DDR 333 ( allways 2 sticks )

Weel good luck with PC world.. be welcome... look .. PC hardware have very good component but the only problem is the Operation System!!!.. A little detail!!!

good luck man!!

( ahh if you want to work in this machine buy a nvidia VGA card )

 

[mosco]

Originally posted by: toilet
mosco I ám a MAC user actually, I am graphic designer and 3d content creation... Look I work with mac but when I work in fash and internet I need a PC so I build a lot of them but Always have problem when I work .... but.. when put my hand in a nforce 2 motherboard my live change ... YEs never hav problems with stability or corrupt renders etc..
So you need a asus or abit board a tbred or barton xp and buala!!!!!!!... ahhh buy good memory I thing like a DDR 333 be ok!!! but 2x 256Mb DDR 333 ( allways 2 sticks )

Weel good luck with PC world.. be welcome... look .. PC hardware have very good component but the only problem is the Operation System!!!.. A little detail!!!

good luck man!!

( ahh if you want to work in this machine buy a nvidia VGA card )

So i should always get 2 sticks? is that what they mean by dual channel? if i get 2 X 256MB chips and use the dual channel thing, i still have 512MB right?

 

[toilet]

yes... 2x256 mb = 512mb .... !!! ALLWAIS
I dont know wich diference in money are between 2x256Mb DDR 333 and DDR 400 ... but if the diference is a little go for 400 ... but remember buy a good memory... me now I using a CRUCIAL memory .. I never have problem with them!!!!

bye

 

[mosco]

Now unless they secifiy with these new boards, you can only use AGP 4X and 8X cards right? not 2X?

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Buz2b

The onboard graphics is equal to a Geforce 4 MX 440 I believe

I think you mean geForce 2 MX440, not geForce 4. If it were equal to a geforce 4 there wouldn't be any argument as to whether or not to get a separate video card.

mosco,
You have enough info and seem like you're smart enough to do the right thing. Heck, at least you are going PC from Mac! :beer: Good luck in your endeavors. When you get down to building the system, don't forget you can get a lot of help here if you have any problems. Lots of knowledgable folks here.

The nForce1 IGP is GF2 MX, nForce2 IGP is GF4 MX. Just read Newegg's description.

 

[Buz2b]

The nForce1 IGP is GF2 MX, nForce2 IGP is GF4 MX. Just read Newegg's description.

The problem was, the link provided for the NewEgg offering didn't have a description that said anything about the video level. However, after jumping through a few hoops and finally getting the Epox (Europe was the only one I could get to load) site to load, I found you were correct; the onboard video for nForce2 is supposedly equal to geForce 4 MX. I stand corrected and chastised for not keeping up with the newer nForce offerings. I suppose if you want to share your RAM with your onboard graphics, then maybe it is an option. Personally, I wouldn't but as I said earlier, in this situation (and because they are looking to save a few bucks) it might be worth getting.

In answer to a couple of other points;

So i should always get 2 sticks? is that what they mean by dual channel?

No, not necessarily but do a Google search for "Dual Channel DDR" and you will get a better explanation. Dual channel enables two separate memory controlers so that two sticks run at 128 bit level. Would you see a vast difference in one 512 MB stick vs 2 x 256 MB; probably not.

I dont know wich diference in money are between 2x256Mb DDR 333 and DDR 400

About $20 per stick +/- and depending upon brand.

Stick with the ASUS, sell off a few of the "extras" you mentioned and get a nice video card for now. Don't go "top of the line" with the video card, especially since you seem to want to stick to the Mac for most of your graphics apps. However, if you make a good batch of green from the sell off of the extras, go for it.

Contrary to the other opinion on the graphics card, go for the ATI. Much quieter, which as a former Mac user, you would appreciate greatly.

 

[mosco]

Well, a question still unanswered, what about Aopen vs MSI (both with integrated graphics). I like the board layout of an AOPen and it has a dual bios in case i mess the first one up. people seem happy with them.

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: mosco
Well, a question still unanswered, what about Aopen vs MSI (both with integrated graphics). I like the board layout of an AOPen and it has a dual bios in case i mess the first one up. people seem happy with them.

I am not personally acquainted with the Aopen boards, hence my reluctance to tackle the question. You also didn't mention a specific model of the Aopens you were talking about. So, I guessed that you wanted the one that included all the "extras" including the onboard graphics. Anyway, it took a bit of searching around but I did turn up a few reviews.
This one seemed to be typical of most I read. You will notice a few "quirks" here and there but nothing horrible. I'm not happy with the CMOS battery installation on this at all though. That's an accident waiting to happen. Also, the lack of multipliers would severely limit most overclocking. Having used a board with this same problem, I can say that it wasn't a big deal because overclocking wasn't important to me at first. However, later on this did prove frustrating to me even though I'm still not what you would call an avid overclocker. Again, whatever floats your boat.
One "problem" is do see with Aopen is their lack of sheer numbers by end users in the US marketplace. Their main presence has been in the European market in past years. They are not very "commonplace" here. You may have a hard time finding an english speaking forum for Aopen. I did find this one using Google. While not a tradgedy, it is just nice to know you have a place to go (other than, of course, the wonderful AT forums) where there are individuals using the same equipment; having the same troubles, etc.

 

[mosco]

I can't remember if i already asked this yet but how exactly do i know if a board has SoundStorm audio? Is it any board with a 6channel out and optical out?

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: mosco
I can't remember if i already asked this yet but how exactly do i know if a board has SoundStorm audio? Is it any board with a 6channel out and optical out?

There comes a point when you have to do some research on your own here. But, I'll give you a head start; there are several different nForce chipsets. Each has a "designation"/name of it's own. Only one or two have the onboard video (if you are still looking for that). As an example, this page explains the differences in the nForce2 chipsets that Aopen offers. This covers pretty much most of the nForce2 offerings but not all I think.
Bottm line is that it is time for you to hit the "Google" search on your own. Most of what I was unsure of I found simply by doing a quick Google search. You can do the same. Good luck and learn well. Post back when you have built the system and brag a bit. I look forward to it.

 

[mosco]

I totally forgot that i own an ibook that i hardly use anymore that i am trying to convince my parents to let me sell. Thats around another 500 dollars on top of what i would have to buy a pc which might fix my monitor, keyboard, mouse, and graphics card problem.

I got the Compaq 17inch flat CRT i have now for about 17 dollars after rebate in one of those hot deals. I should have gotten 2...

 

[Buz2b]

I got the Compaq 17inch flat CRT i have now for about 17 dollars after rebate in one of those hot deals. I should have gotten 2...

Good find! BTW, what are the specs on that ibook?

 

[mosco]

ah, its pretty crappy. ibook 466 SE, one of the old clamshell models. it runs os X but kinda slow. there is one on ebay going for 660 dollars right now which i think it way to much. We will see what happens though. I really want an Asus and a radeon 9500 Pro!

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: mosco
ah, its pretty crappy. ibook 466 SE, one of the old clamshell models. it runs os X but kinda slow. there is one on ebay going for 660 dollars right now which i think it way to much. We will see what happens though. I really want an Asus and a radeon 9500 Pro!

Thanks, I was curious. I keep saying that one of these days I want to "play around" with a Mac of some sort but just don't want to put out the bucks for something decent and stuff that is too old or slow just wouldn't be "representative" of what that OS can do. Good luck with the sale. I"m sure you'll make enough to get a good vid card!

 

[mosco]

The Mac has changed alot in the last year so you kinda need a recent mac to understand everything it will do. Suprisingly enough, my friend bought an ibook after spending a couple hours in the Apple Store.

 

[Buz2b]

Suprisingly enough, my friend bought an ibook after spending a couple hours in the Apple Store.

Ok, first I want to apologize for any feelings I might infringe upon. I would like to quote the March '03 issue of Maximum PC that, after some some "real time" testing with dual processor Mac and PC systems; using the same programs and scripts, loaded to their optimal settings, there simply was no contest. That exact quote was, "Mac people who scream that their Apples are faster than PC's are simply so full of crap, they could double as septic tanks." Harsh words I admit but if you take the time to read their test procedures and setups, you will see that they went the extra mile to make sure that all things were as equal as they could be considering the cross platform testing. They tested the (considered) best dual G4 system vs the better dual Athlon and dual Xeon systems. Even in Photoshop 7 (where Mac usually shines), using the same script, the Mac was a very poor show against the dual Athlon and especially the dual Xeon systems. Yes, the Mac system's CPU's were rated far below the PC's (in terms of MHz speed) but they were considered the best that Apple could offer and were pitted against dual processor PC systems. Apple, as AMD is fond of saying, claim that "speed isn't everything". Well, while I might agree in principle, you should read the results; they aren't pretty.
So, while I have said I would like to "play" with a Mac system and see what it's all about, I don't think I would trade my PC for a Mac for anything, or anytime soon.
I understand that, as a Mac user there are some that would say the same about their systems; they wouldn't trade them for anything. I just think that maybe this article/test is pointing out that maybe they are fooling themselves.
I DO NOT wish to start a Flame War here with Mac Owners. If you have a problem with the results of the Maximum PC tests, take them up with that magazine. They have been known to print a retraction before, if proven wrong; but it doesn't happen very often. I also still plan on picking up a Mac system one day; if nothing else to better educate myself on how the "other side" (for lack of a better term) works.

 

[mosco]

I know exactly what you mean. As i said in one of my above posts, Macs are alot slower. I am not one of those mac users who claim hardware dominance. I just like Mac OS X better than windows and its not like i am doing 3D rendering for my job. This is one of the reasons i am building a pc, encoding divx and svcds are alot faster on the pc.

For the sake of apple, i hopethe new IBM 970 really is as fast as they claim.