Mac, the most secure notebook on the market...

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Look guys, why are you complaining when Windows ads sound just as dumb and are not targeted at you? The bottom line is that Apple's ads is not targeting you enthusiasts, and you should know better. If you're going to hate a company because its ads work, then that's just wrong.

Thoroughly evaluate the product and figure it out first. For most of us unless you're doing something that absolutely requires Windows, then I don't see why you couldn't have both a Mac and PC. I'm not saying you need to switch, or need to have both, but the Mac can do quite a bit, and for a lot of us it would work just fine. Whether or not you want it can be personal preference, but it's easy to stick to Windows when you've been raised using it. I'm still no OSX expert, but I can use it fluidly enough to get what I need to do. A few months ago I finally forced myself to use Photoshop CS4 on my MBP instead of my PC. It took a little work to get used to but I managed to use that and Illustrator to do something I typically do on my PC. As I pointed out before, web surfing, chatting, can all be done on a Mac no problem. E-mail is fine now with Exchange support, and additionally all you downloaders out there can still download like on any other PC.

So now what? Games? I'll admit Windows > Mac for games. What about development work? I'd say Macs are developer friendly, but there's a lot of development tools out there for PCs too. But you can't just hate on Apple for lack of software. There's software out there for Macs to do things you can do on PC also. It's hard to say that you absolutely need a PC when most things can be done on Macs also.

Overpriced is a different thing. You can hate on it all, but if the MARKET asks for such prices, then tough.

 

[Phoenix86]

Least attacked, or rather, significantly less attacked != most secure.

You would be hard pressed to say Mac are not attacked less.

 

[Kaido]

I love Mac vs. PC threads on AT :heart:

 

[RESmonkey]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
F* apple. Itunes sucks also. I bought the freaking ipod let me have control of it you f*ing aholes.

Apple doesn't make products for "power users". Its made to be intuitive, easy to use, aesthetically pleasing, and fully plug and play. If you want to break past that, get another device and hack it.

this is sig-worthy. qft!

 

[vshah]

if i want a shell, i'll just use linux...

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Chris
There's about one million viruses and countless malware that targets the PC, where the Mac has about two actual, real-world threats. I'll keep using a Mac while Windows remains the honeypot for all that crap.

Mac hardware was supposedly superior but moved to Intel. OSX was supposedly virus free but now is getting one bundled and is now recommended to have an anti-virus asap. In another thread you said that iPods and iPhones are better cus they have sold so much more than their competition. Why have PC's/Microsoft sold more than their competition?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: halik

You've never done any development, have you?
OSX is far, far superior if you need to work with open source libraries for any sort of coding. The only option on windows is cygwin to my knowledge and setting that up is a huge mess.

Also there's still no real implementation of virtual desktops on windows, that little MS powertoy is crap. Another thing, dragging files into a folder doesn't open it when you hover over the folder icon, so if you're trying to drop it 2 levels deep, you're sol.

Real developers use notepad.

Uhh, no, stupid developers use Notepad. Real developers use the best tools available to them. As for Cygwin, I use it every day and it's a breeze to setup. You double-click that setup.exe icon, select the packages you want and it installs.

 

[her209]

VMware Server > *

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: halik
Also there's still no real implementation of virtual desktops on windows, that little MS powertoy is crap. Another thing, dragging files into a folder doesn't open it when you hover over the folder icon, so if you're trying to drop it 2 levels deep, you're sol.

Yeah, that's because the explorer in Windows actually, you know, MAKES SENSE. I open up, say, applications in OS X. That's cool. Say I want to open up another folder. Naturally, you think I could just click on, say, Utilities and have that open up in another window. NO. It opens up in the same window.

And it's not even just that...everything is either overly simple or not intuitive in OS X. The dock is OK, but still confusing. Better than a standard Windows taskbar (except for when it comes to open applications, minimized apps, etc), but Windows 7's taskbar blows it out of the water when it comes to functionality and intuitiveness.

And then there's Expose. Yeah, let's press a button or hover over to a corner to see every window I have open. Then I pick it. OR, if it was like Windows, I could just LOOK AT WHAT PROGRAMS I HAVE OPEN IN THE TASKBAR AND CLICK ON IT. Which sounds easier? Which sounds prettier? Which is EASIER TO USE AND MORE IMPORTANT?

Oh, and I forgot...you can hover over another folder to open it up in 7. So...not a really legitimate complaint anymore.

Regardless, it's still a good OS, and great for developers. Power users =/= developers or similar, IMO. Windows is a much better OS for the power user, but less so for things like developing, professional networking, etc. But, some things just bug the crap out of me with it.

To top it off, the products are overpriced. The company lies outright and is the embodiment of smug douche bagginess.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: halik
...
OSX is far, far superior if you need to work with open source libraries for any sort of coding.

huh? wtf are you smoking? I'm involved in dozens of open sourced projects on windows and never touched cygwin. The free IDE's alone available for windows blow anything on OSX out of the water.

I think it depends on what you're doing...for some things, OS X is better. Other times, Windows. I've seen both sides in the CS department here.

 

[lifeobry]

Apple has annoying ads

 

[theflyingpig]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: halik
Also there's still no real implementation of virtual desktops on windows, that little MS powertoy is crap. Another thing, dragging files into a folder doesn't open it when you hover over the folder icon, so if you're trying to drop it 2 levels deep, you're sol.

Yeah, that's because the explorer in Windows actually, you know, MAKES SENSE. I open up, say, applications in OS X. That's cool. Say I want to open up another folder. Naturally, you think I could just click on, say, Utilities and have that open up in another window. NO. It opens up in the same window.

And it's not even just that...everything is either overly simple or not intuitive in OS X. The dock is OK, but still confusing. Better than a standard Windows taskbar (except for when it comes to open applications, minimized apps, etc), but Windows 7's taskbar blows it out of the water when it comes to functionality and intuitiveness.

And then there's Expose. Yeah, let's press a button or hover over to a corner to see every window I have open. Then I pick it. OR, if it was like Windows, I could just LOOK AT WHAT PROGRAMS I HAVE OPEN IN THE TASKBAR AND CLICK ON IT. Which sounds easier? Which sounds prettier? Which is EASIER TO USE AND MORE IMPORTANT?

Oh, and I forgot...you can hover over another folder to open it up in 7. So...not a really legitimate complaint anymore.

Regardless, it's still a good OS, and great for developers. Power users =/= developers or similar, IMO. Windows is a much better OS for the power user, but less so for things like developing, professional networking, etc. But, some things just bug the crap out of me with it.

To top it off, the products are overpriced. The company lies outright and is the embodiment of smug douche bagginess.

I can tell from reading your post that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. It seems as though your attempt at using OS X was similar to a chimpanzee mindlessly trying to assemble a 30 piece Lego set. Educate yourself before you speak.

 

[Zensal]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Overpriced is a different thing. You can hate on it all, but if the MARKET asks for such prices, then tough.

Obviously the market does not ask for such prices, evidenced by Apple's low market share.

Apple computer hardware is overpriced crap. No real desktops for under $2500? Really? A i7 920 with 3 gigs of ram for $2500? And no, I don't want your all-in-one with your crappy TN screen that I'm going to have to throw away when my computer gets old. Or a $600 Mac Mini with a 2.0Ghz C2D with 1 gig of ram?

I'll admit laptops might be different, but I do not have/need one right now and have little experience with them. Though they also seem very overpriced compared to similar spec'ed laptops.


On a separate note:

OSX is a preference. After trying Windows, OSX, and, for a brief time, Ubuntu, I prefer Windows for my uses. Whatever you may prefer I'm sure is great for you.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Zensal

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Overpriced is a different thing. You can hate on it all, but if the MARKET asks for such prices, then tough.

Obviously the market does not ask for such prices, evidenced by Apple's low market share.

Apple computer hardware is overpriced crap. No real desktops for under $2500? Really? A i7 920 with 3 gigs of ram for $2500? And no, I don't want your all-in-one with your crappy TN screen that I'm going to have to throw away when my computer gets old. Or a $600 Mac Mini with a 2.0Ghz C2D with 1 gig of ram?

I'll admit laptops might be different, but I do not have/need one right now and have little experience with them. Though they also seem very overpriced compared to similar spec'ed laptops.


On a separate note:

OSX is a preference. After trying Windows, OSX, and, for a brief time, Ubuntu, I prefer Windows for my uses. Whatever you may prefer I'm sure is great for you.

actually it does. apple dominates the high end pc/laptop market. you confuse market share with profitability. it is better to make a few high end products that sell with decent profit, than spam out countless netbook like units that involve each manufacturer cutting their own throats to compete in a race to the bottom.
"According to new stats from NPD Group, Apple now claims 91 percent of the U.S. retail market for personal computers costing more than $1,000. Nine out of 10 dollars spent on such machines in June went to Cupertino." http://digitaldaily.allthingsd...ose-laptop-hunter-ads/


look at how dells profits are doing, their share price..and apples.

"Dell Inc's second-quarter profit was whacked 23 per cent as the personal-computer industry's slump dragged on."
"Dell's shipments of consumer PCs increased 17 per cent over the last year, while revenue in that category was down 9 per cent to $US2.9 billion ($A3.51 billion)." http://news.smh.com.au/breakin...-23-20090828-f1jv.html

so look at that, sell more, make less. wonderful isn't it.

dell share price $15
apple share price $165

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Platypus
Completely untrue. If you've ever had to write code or create scripts or edit video or record music these applications are FAR better suited to the OSX platform in my opinion. It all depends on what you use your computer for. Windows might do everything you want to do on a Mac just as well, and that's great, go ahead and use it... but I cannot get anything remotely close to the level of professional quality for recording except for maybe ProTools and I don't have the money for it. Logic is one of the best applications out there. Final Cut is amazing. The ability to have a native UNIX shell environment is essential for me. These things do not exist in Windows unfortunately.

Powershell... (I understand most won't have any experience what so ever with it for quite awhile now, but when they finally do they will see the light)

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Platypus
Completely untrue. If you've ever had to write code or create scripts or edit video or record music these applications are FAR better suited to the OSX platform in my opinion. It all depends on what you use your computer for. Windows might do everything you want to do on a Mac just as well, and that's great, go ahead and use it... but I cannot get anything remotely close to the level of professional quality for recording except for maybe ProTools and I don't have the money for it. Logic is one of the best applications out there. Final Cut is amazing. The ability to have a native UNIX shell environment is essential for me. These things do not exist in Windows unfortunately.

Powershell... (I understand most won't have any experience what so ever with it for quite awhile now, but when they finally do they will see the light)

No thanks, I'm already fluent in bash, ksh, php, perl, python, ruby, C, C++, Obj-C, applescript, javascript, java, any probably a few I'm forgetting. I have no desire to learn any more languages, especially proprietary ones.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
No thanks, I'm already fluent in bash, ksh, php, perl, python, ruby, C, C++, Obj-C, applescript, javascript, java, any probably a few I'm forgetting. I have no desire to learn any more languages, especially proprietary ones.

If you do indeed know all those languages, it should be a fucking cakewalk for you?

 

[sourceninja]

Every language has it's own little quirks. Little gotcha's that you can only really know if you work in the language day to day. Because of this I'm strongest in Obj-C, applescript, javascript, bash, and php. I'm 'ok' in java, C, C++, ksh. I'm passable in python and ruby.

I'll put it this way. You tell me to automate something with a shell script, I tend to first approach it with bash, then python. If you tell me to write a web application I first look to use php over ruby or python. I wouldn't feel really qualified to write professional work in python or ruby. I do it everyday with php.

So why waste my time learning yet another language, and one that may not be portable to my mac or my linux machines, when i can use languages that are.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: halik

You've never done any development, have you?
OSX is far, far superior if you need to work with open source libraries for any sort of coding. The only option on windows is cygwin to my knowledge and setting that up is a huge mess.

Also there's still no real implementation of virtual desktops on windows, that little MS powertoy is crap. Another thing, dragging files into a folder doesn't open it when you hover over the folder icon, so if you're trying to drop it 2 levels deep, you're sol.

Real developers use notepad.

Uhh, no, stupid developers use Notepad. Real developers use the best tools available to them. As for Cygwin, I use it every day and it's a breeze to setup. You double-click that setup.exe icon, select the packages you want and it installs.

My point is really developers are by default equipped with OCD. Every single one of them will prefer a particular IDE setup a particular way and don't you dare change anything on them. At that point, there is really not much point debating which is better, there is only which is your favourite.

Claiming OSX is better for open source library is as laughable as claiming MACs are secure.

Coding is really more an art than science. And my degree is in computer science.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
Every language has it's own little quirks. Little gotcha's that you can only really know if you work in the language day to day. Because of this I'm strongest in Obj-C, applescript, javascript, bash, and php. I'm 'ok' in java, C, C++, ksh. I'm passable in python and ruby.

I'll put it this way. You tell me to automate something with a shell script, I tend to first approach it with bash, then python. If you tell me to write a web application I first look to use php over ruby or python. I wouldn't feel really qualified to write professional work in python or ruby. I do it everyday with php.

So why waste my time learning yet another language, and one that may not be portable to my mac or my linux machines, when i can use languages that are.

Cygwin, or Mysys. Both are bash environments available to windows. If you must have bash, it is available to a windows environment.

BTW, what on earth convinced you to learn objective C?

 

[sourceninja]

That's not the point.

I don't want bash. I want a full unix environment. The things I come to expect from my operating system.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
That's not the point.

I don't want bash. I want a full unix environment. The things I come to expect from my operating system.

Wait, what? Maybe you don't understand this, but you can HAVE the full unix environment through cygwin. (and even to a large extent with Mysys). That means the availability of python scripts, shell scripts, ruby scripts, ect. In exactly the same way that you would do them in a *nix environment. There is no difference other then the fact that the background operating system is windows. (And yes, cygwin even provides X11 extensions).

It is literally just like opening a command prompt in *nix, there is no difference.

 

[sourceninja]

I've used cygwin, it's not the same, it's not intergrated into the core OS. It's a little unstable, it's also usually out of date.

I want a UNIX OS, not some unix tools tacked on to another OS. I have not used windows as a primary desktop in over 5 years. I have no desire to use windows. I'm a recent OSX convert because I've fell in love with notebook computers and there are not any solid unix notebooks out there.

OSX has one of the best terminals out there imho, it has a great X implementation (way way way better then cygwin), X apps almost look native. I supports every tool I use out of the box and with fairly recent versions, it supports tools beyond *nix that I've fell in love with (Xcode, textmate, viscosity, ical, garageband, vmware fusion w/ unity mode, etc), on top of that, It integrates with the iphone a lot better then when I had to use windows or linux to do it and it is the only platform I can write iPhone applications with.

Seems like a win win to me. Much better then trying to hack windows into something I might enjoy. Even if I didn't use OSX, I wouldn't use windows. I'd be using linux like I did before I switched.

 

[dirtboy]

That's why I don't use Safari. Good luck breaking in.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I've used cygwin, it's not the same, it's not intergrated into the core OS. It's a little unstable, it's also usually out of date.

I want a UNIX OS, not some unix tools tacked on to another OS. I have not used windows as a primary desktop in over 5 years. I have no desire to use windows. I'm a recent OSX convert because I've fell in love with notebook computers and there are not any solid unix notebooks out there.

OSX has one of the best terminals out there imho, it has a great X implementation (way way way better then cygwin), X apps almost look native. I supports every tool I use out of the box and with fairly recent versions, it supports tools beyond *nix that I've fell in love with (Xcode, textmate, viscosity, ical, garageband, vmware fusion w/ unity mode, etc), on top of that, It integrates with the iphone a lot better then when I had to use windows or linux to do it and it is the only platform I can write iPhone applications with.

Seems like a win win to me. Much better then trying to hack windows into something I might enjoy. Even if I didn't use OSX, I wouldn't use windows. I'd be using linux like I did before I switched.

I've never had stability issues with cygwin, I'm getting the 4.3 version of gcc (mingw has 4.4 available).

Lots of things change in 5 years.

Fine if you love the development tools available exclusively to OSX, I have no issue with that. However, your judging an open source project with 5 year old knowledge of it.