MAC Haters

[HomerSapien]

This is funny. I know i am pissing in the wind right now, but here it goes.

I am a PC and a Mac user.

To clear things up, Macs do support more than one button. It is annoying that they come with those. I am using a wireless Intellimouse. It has 5 buttons and it is an MS product.

PC is great for people who have time to tinker. Macs are great for people who need to get things done and not worry about tinkering.

Upgrading. If you can open the case, you can upgrade it.

Switch commercials= gay, except the will ferrell one. that one is hilarious.

Not every mac user thinks Steve Jobs is god, just like not every PC user thinks Bill Gates is god. They are businessmen selling their products. Apple sells primarily hardware, MS primarily sells software.


DDR is supported by the Xserve now and will be supported by the next line of powermacs.

The TI books are sexy and how many PC laptops can be driven over and still work like the Ibook. These things will boot and run after they have been hit with hammers.
They may be of a different breed, but then you guys wouldnt have anything to complain about.

Cost is not that bad. They come with so many software titles that are apple brands that work exceptionally well. Appleworks, As good as Office, but $69 dollars instead of $400. (retail version)

Os9 = worst piece of crap i have ever used.
10.2 will rock this world. Each update runs faster and faster and looks better.

It is funny going to Mac forums because they are as single minded as pc users.


Now i am going to enjoy not having to run antivirus software, since EVERYONE MAKES VIRII FOR WINDOWS. Not to forget, there is no frickin gator program for mac yet.

 

[fitz4521]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
COST

Especially COST vs. Performance.

 

[Miko2Miko]

I wonder why anyone would buy a mac over a pc.
"It doesn't crash" my A$$!!!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Czar
In a sense yes, when I bash macs because of OS issues and often stability issues then yes. But the rest still goes, almost impossible to upgrade, little software support compared to pc's, expensive, expensive, top of the line macs slow compared to top of the line pc's.

Its been noted that all parts can be upgraded. Motherboards seem to be the hardest part.
There is plenty of software out there for it.
It is expensive.
It is slower at most things.

Ah yes, all parts except the motherboard can be upgraded. Let me see one of those Mac fans upgrade their Mac with a P4 2.5GHz and DDR400. Oh wait... can't do that right?
PowerPC is not the standard at the moment, Intel/AMD are. If Apple would quit being anal about the hard-/software combos maybe more people would use their OS at least. They want to release an Intel based Mac in the future I think, but they still want to put in their own mobo, so you will still be restricted by whatever they decide on putting in.

And on 'The Mac supports other mice too!!!': If you bought a house and got it without toilets, but with a hole in the back garden, and the person selling it would tell you that it '...supports indoor plumbing too!', would you feel ripped off? If there even is software which REQUIRES 3 mouse buttons, why don't they at least supply a 2 mouse button mouse with it?

P.S. The Apple_gamers video rox, and proves a good point. As long as stuff like that does not change 99% of the people won't even consider using it.

 

[IGBT]

Sooo...what flavor mac ya gona get??

 

[Lucky]

And on 'The Mac supports other mice too!!!': If you bought a house and got it without toilets, but with a hole in the back garden, and the person selling it would tell you that it '...supports indoor plumbing too!', would you feel ripped off?

Not when I could sell the hole and buy indoor toilets with what I made off selling the hole. Thats what you dont realize-put that mouse on ebay and you could buy a new multi button mouse with what you made. So no, I wouldnt feel ripped off. Annoyed? Sure.

Ah yes, all parts except the motherboard can be upgraded. Let me see one of those Mac fans upgrade their Mac with a P4 2.5GHz and DDR400. Oh wait... can't do that right?

You can upgrade processors, or if your motherboard doesnt support the fastest PPC processors you can buy one off ebay. Considering it doesn't support it nor would it utilize it, I dont see why you would want to use it. But you can upgrade ram.

PowerPC is not the standard at the moment, Intel/AMD are

Really? Please show me who says x86 is standard for personal computers? It certainly dominates the market but just because it has more market share doesnt mean its better or worse.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Lucky

PowerPC is not the standard at the moment, Intel/AMD are

Really? Please show me who says x86 is standard for personal computers? It certainly dominates the market but just because it has more market share doesnt mean its better or worse.

just means it is the "standard", just like he said

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Lucky

PowerPC is not the standard at the moment, Intel/AMD are

Really? Please show me who says x86 is standard for personal computers? It certainly dominates the market but just because it has more market share doesnt mean its better or worse.

Imagine releasing a far superior word processor which can do everything people could ever want and more. Now imagine it not supporting the Word format nor running under Windows. Think it would become immensely popular? No?

Now consider that Macs are generally slower yet more expensive than PCs, partially due to the hardware, that there is a lot less software available for it (yeah yeah, there is software for it, but just cause there are tens of thousands of programs I'm mostly not interested in for it doesn't mean that I'll go for the tens of millions for PC + Windows instead (and I'm a Microsoft hater )), and then tell me why Macs are superior to PCs.

If you'd sell a car which needed a special, expensive kind of gas only available in a few places, and would only drive while in NY, some people from there might buy it because they like whatever extras it gives. But don't be surprised if no one else ever buys it, or complains to you afterwards.

 

[Lucky]

Imagine releasing a far superior word processor which can do everything people could ever want and more. Now imagine it not supporting the Word format nor running under Windows. Think it would become immensely popular? No?

What? I dont understand what the hell that means in relation to macs vs. PC's.

Now consider that Macs are generally slower yet more expensive than PCs, partially due to the hardware, that there is a lot less software available for it (yeah yeah, there is software for it, but just cause there are tens of thousands of programs I'm mostly not interested in for it doesn't mean that I'll go for the tens of millions for PC + Windows instead (and I'm a Microsoft hater )), and then tell me why Macs are superior to PCs.

I'm not telling you they are superior. Each have their own purpose. I have 4 PC's at the current moment and one mac G4. I like both and use them for different purposes. I like the OS X GUI much more than winxp, thats for sure.

And, as has been noted by others, I think 99% of software out there is crap. I use, on a regular basis, perhaps 25-30 software programs. And the great thing about macs is that there is a thriving shareware community

If you'd sell a car which needed a special, expensive kind of gas only available in a few places, and would only drive while in NY, some people from there might buy it because they like whatever extras it gives. But don't be surprised if no one else ever buys it, or complains to you afterwards.

Terrible analogy. Car=needs constant refilling to be able to use it. computer=once you've bought the mac and programs there are not additional costs.

I've yet to encounter software on the PC that I use that is not on the mac, except for perhaps RTCW (not even sure on that one!). You can use much of the same hardware in macs that you use in PC's, or if its not a simple plug and play you can do a little modification (bios flash,etc) to make it work.

Have you ever used a mac? When was the last time? What kind of mac was it and what operating system was it running?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Imagine releasing a far superior word processor which can do everything people could ever want and more. Now imagine it not supporting the Word format nor running under Windows. Think it would become immensely popular? No?

What? I dont understand what the hell that means in relation to macs vs. PC's.

[/quote]
It's an attempt at explaining 'standard'. Name 5 different companies that manufacture PCs. Now name 5 that manufacture Macs.

Now consider that Macs are generally slower yet more expensive than PCs, partially due to the hardware, that there is a lot less software available for it (yeah yeah, there is software for it, but just cause there are tens of thousands of programs I'm mostly not interested in for it doesn't mean that I'll go for the tens of millions for PC + Windows instead (and I'm a Microsoft hater )), and then tell me why Macs are superior to PCs.

I'm not telling you they are superior. Each have their own purpose. I have 4 PC's at the current moment and one mac G4. I like both and use them for different purposes. I like the OS X GUI much more than winxp, thats for sure.

And, as has been noted by others, I think 99% of software out there is crap. I use, on a regular basis, perhaps 25-30 software programs. And the great thing about macs is that there is a thriving shareware community

[/quote]
So? It still means there are a whole lot less programs for a Mac. If you dislike choice, or are happy with the programs you are offered, good for you. I like more choice. You want to claim that there is not a thriving shareware community for Windows/Linux/*BSD?

If you'd sell a car which needed a special, expensive kind of gas only available in a few places, and would only drive while in NY, some people from there might buy it because they like whatever extras it gives. But don't be surprised if no one else ever buys it, or complains to you afterwards.

Terrible analogy. Car=needs constant refilling to be able to use it. computer=once you've bought the mac and programs there are not additional costs.

I've yet to encounter software on the PC that I use that is not on the mac, except for perhaps RTCW (not even sure on that one!). You can use much of the same hardware in macs that you use in PC's, or if its not a simple plug and play you can do a little modification (bios flash,etc) to make it work.

Have you ever used a mac? When was the last time? What kind of mac was it and what operating system was it running?

Then make the car more expensive and the gas the same price. Still doesn't explain why you'd want to be limited to the Big Apple when driving.

Why would you want to not be able to choose your own computer in the first place though? Buy a dual MP PC, and post the AVI here where you show how to get OS X to work with some little BIOS modifications.
RtCW is available for Macs.

It has been ages since I used a Mac, and I don't plan on using it anytime soon again either. I like to play new games, I like to be able to get software in a store instead of either having to order online or to search for that 1 European shop which sells Mac stuff, I like to be able to run all the programs I want, I like being able to not worry about whether a software or hardware manufacturer actually bothered to support Macs, and I can do all I want/need with Windows 2000/XP/FreeBSD/Linux. I have no reason to even consider using it.

 

[Lucky]

So? It still means there are a whole lot less programs for a Mac.

Great! I can have twice as much crap programs to choose from!

It has been ages since I used a Mac

Well gee-whiz golly, what a surpise.

and I don't plan on using it anytime soon again either.

Way to keep an open mind!

I like to be able to get software in a store instead of either having to order nline or to search for that 1 European shop which sells Mac stuff

Well get out of bumf*ck netherlands and you might be able to! Besides, its no different than having to live in a small town here in the US. I cant just goto the store and buy software either, I have to order online. That doesnt mean that PC's suck because I live in a bad location!

I like to be able to run all the programs I want

I do too! Since you confirmed there is RTCW for mac, I guess there isnt a single proggie I couldnt get on the mac!

I like being able to not worry about whether a software or hardware manufacturer actually bothered to support Macs

Like windows users dont have to worry about whether the software or hardware supports windows 2000/windows xp/longhorn?

I have no reason to even consider using it.

Well fine but that doesnt mean the PC is inherently better! They each serve different purposes, but I wouldnt expect you to understand that with you limited knowledge of moden macs and you closed mindedness to them.

 

[Czar]

I would like to know one thing from mac supporters.

What does the Mac have that the PC doesnt? (apart from MacOSX ofcorse)

 

[Lucky]

ooh, and let me add one last thing before I get repetitive...

Most sensible people dont buy a car on price and specs alone. They test drive it, see how it feels, and if it fits their personality. Some people prefer cars with better interiors, or nicer wheels, and will pay more for that. That's because if you use something every day, you want to be comfortable with it and how it works. Dare I use this analogy but some people buy macs using similar reasoning.



Czar, two words: Sexy cases! :Q

 

[Czar]

Lucky,
yeah I was going to add that to the list of "except"

a simpler question, what can the mac do better than the pc?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Lucky
ooh, and let me add one last thing before I get repetitive...

Most sensible people dont buy a car on price and specs alone. They test drive it, see how it feels, and if it fits their personality. Some people prefer cars with better interiors, or nicer wheels, and will pay more for that. That's because if you use something every day, you want to be comfortable with it and how it works. Dare I use this analogy but some people buy macs using similar reasoning.



Czar, two words: Sexy cases! :Q

One word: Casemodding!

Case 1
Case 2
Case 3

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Lucky
ooh, and let me add one last thing before I get repetitive...

Most sensible people dont buy a car on price and specs alone. They test drive it, see how it feels, and if it fits their personality. Some people prefer cars with better interiors, or nicer wheels, and will pay more for that. That's because if you use something every day, you want to be comfortable with it and how it works. Dare I use this analogy but some people buy macs using similar reasoning.



Czar, two words: Sexy cases! :Q

One word: Casemodding!

Case 1
Case 2
Case 3

Two words:

Mac casemodding!

more

more

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Lucky
ooh, and let me add one last thing before I get repetitive...

Most sensible people dont buy a car on price and specs alone. They test drive it, see how it feels, and if it fits their personality. Some people prefer cars with better interiors, or nicer wheels, and will pay more for that. That's because if you use something every day, you want to be comfortable with it and how it works. Dare I use this analogy but some people buy macs using similar reasoning.



Czar, two words: Sexy cases! :Q

One word: Casemodding!

Case 1
Case 2
Case 3

Two words:

Mac casemodding!

more

more

So you agree that you can make any case for any computer you want? Then the 'pretty case' argument falls away too. (Upgrading Mac hardware could cost time and involve BIOS flashes and such, then making a nice case can take time for PCs too)

 

[Lucky]

So you agree that you can make any case for any computer you want? Then the 'pretty case' argument falls away too. (Upgrading Mac hardware could cost time and involve BIOS flashes and such, then making a nice case can take time for PCs too)

Sure, in most cases you can fit any computer in any case, physically limited. The new imac's, not sure if those mATX boards will fit in there. But where else can you buy a translucent case with handles on all four ends with antenna's built into them for your wireless networking needs?

upgrading mac hardware is as simple as as it with a PC (actually simpler since the case access is incredible in g3/g4 onward. BIOS flashes are only required, if say there was a hot deal on a GF3 or GF4 but they were for PC and you wanted to use them on macs. I remember about a year ago or so there was a hot deal on voodoo 5 for mac's, and there were hundreds of people here flashing the bios so it could work on PC. Same thing.

Now RAM, hard drives, CDRW's, etc...thats all plug and play. cross platform compatible.

 

[Czar]

ermm.. what can the mac do better than the pc?

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Czar
ermm.. what can the mac do better than the pc?

With the current sorry state of motorola and their PPC development team, I would say NOT MUCH! When employed I work in the newspaper industry where macs *are* a standard, at least in the backend. I wouldnt say they run better than PC's but they certainly dont slack off in the applications I use working.

Where they work better might come into play when you consider mac software-i.e, iMovie.

 

[Czar]

so basicly the mac does nothing better than the pc at the moment

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Czar
so basicly the mac does nothing better than the pc at the moment

Well, I gave one example, iMovie and the associated tasks. I've only had my g4 for 2 weeks and havent had the time to check out all its features and benefits, and other software for it.

I would definitely say, especially speed-wise, the mac does not have too many advantages over the PC. Doesnt mean that the PC is superior tho!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Lucky

So? It still means there are a whole lot less programs for a Mac.

Great! I can have twice as much crap programs to choose from!

[/quote]
So instead of being able to choose from 1 decent Mac game you are able to choose from 100 or more decent PC games? What's bad about that?

It has been ages since I used a Mac

Well gee-whiz golly, what a surpise.

Mostly due to the fact that there is nothing worthwhile for me to use on Macs. Sure I can run some programs on Macs too which I use under Windows or FreeBSD, but why would I bother buying a slower Mac for those few when I can't run the rest of the software on it and will need a PC for that anyway?

and I don't plan on using it anytime soon again either.

Way to keep an open mind!

Do you use OpenBSD on the desktop or plan on doing so in the near future? No? Way to keep an open mind!
I have no use for it, unless Mac suddenly changes totally and can run on the best hardware available, and gives stuff I want/need which I can't get from PCs there is no reason for me to consider it. Maybe .03% of our customers asks if we also have the software we sell for Macs, about the same percentage which wants it on Linux. No reason for us to spend ages rewriting it for those OSes and buying hardware+software/hiring people just for that purpose.

I like to be able to get software in a store instead of either having to order nline or to search for that 1 European shop which sells Mac stuff

Well get out of bumf*ck netherlands and you might be able to! Besides, its no different than having to live in a small town here in the US. I cant just goto the store and buy software either, I have to order online. That doesnt mean that PC's suck because I live in a bad location!

So you mean that in the USA there are dozens of shops selling Mac stuff per town? That there are thousands in NY alone? The market is much smaller and therefor there are far less stores for it. The ones that exist often are for the 'dumb users': Those only sell iMacs with MS Office.

I like to be able to run all the programs I want

I do too! Since you confirmed there is RTCW for mac, I guess there isnt a single proggie I couldnt get on the mac!

You can run NetBSD on a PDA. I guess there isn't a single OS or program that can't run on it then!
RtCW can run on it, but it will be faster on a new PC. I like to play on 64 player servers, I don't like to play on 64 player servers with 3 fps as maximum.

I like being able to not worry about whether a software or hardware manufacturer actually bothered to support Macs

Like windows users dont have to worry about whether the software or hardware supports windows 2000/windows xp/longhorn?

Indeed. Far more hardware is supported by Windows 2000/XP than by OS X, or can you prove me wrong? How many hardware suppliers only have drivers for OS X and not for Windows?

I have no reason to even consider using it.

Well fine but that doesnt mean the PC is inherently better! They each serve different purposes, but I wouldnt expect you to understand that with you limited knowledge of moden macs and you closed mindedness to them.

PC is faster, more versatile when looking at both hardware and software, the market demands Windows (It's what people know, and what most people have at home). If you think a PowerMac is better cause it is slowed and has less software, but can meet your specific needs, fine. It doesn't meet my demands, and therefor it is of no use to me. This has nothing to do with closedmindedness, this is meeting what the market wants. If you are looking for the fastest computer you don't buy a 286 or Mac, it's as simple as that.


P.S. From store.apple.com:

Power Mac G4 computers and Macintosh Server G4 systems contain synchronous dynamic random-access memory (SDRAM)--one of the fastest memory technologies available today. SDRAM improves performance and reliability by synchronizing memory speed with the speed of the central processor so that data can be delivered continuously and more rapidly to the processor.

P.P.S. Sun and Apple just announced that Star Office will be released for Macs next year, OpenOffice will be released for it the end of this year.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: Czar
so basicly the mac does nothing better than the pc at the moment

Well, I gave one example, iMovie and the associated tasks. I've only had my g4 for 2 weeks and havent had the time to check out all its features and benefits, and other software for it.

I would definitely say, especially speed-wise, the mac does not have too many advantages over the PC. Doesnt mean that the PC is superior tho!

I'v used Imovie, easy to use but not powerful at all, I'v also tried Avid and that is powerful and much much better than imovie.

 

[Lucky]

So instead of being able to choose from 1 decent Mac game you are able to choose from 100 or more decent PC games? What's bad about that?

Nothing bad about that, I dont game with my Mac. I use them for different purposes. However, If I want to game with my Mac I'd throw in some extra pc100 ram and get a gf3 for it. It would happily run any of the modern FPS's I play.

Mostly due to the fact that there is nothing worthwhile for me to use on Macs. Sure I can run some programs on Macs too which I use under Windows or FreeBSD, but why would I bother buying a slower Mac for those few when I can't run the rest of the software on it and will need a PC for that anyway?

Obviously they aren't for you! Doesn't mean they dont serve a purpose.

Do you use OpenBSD on the desktop or plan on doing so in the near future? No? Way to keep an open mind!

I dont know WTF "openBSD" is! :Q Perhaps if I were to read up a little I might be interested.

I have no use for it, unless Mac suddenly changes totally and can run on the best hardware available, and gives stuff I want/need which I can't get from PCs there is no reason for me to consider it.

Just because it doesnt have the fastest commercially available hardware doesnt mean it's useless. I doubt you rush out to upgrade your video card, RAM, processor, and motherboard immediately after a new one comes out anyways.

Maybe .03% of our customers asks if we also have the software we sell for Macs, about the same percentage which wants it on Linux. No reason for us to spend ages rewriting it for those OSes and buying hardware+software/hiring people just for that purpose.

Uh, great! Just because your customers in your corner of the world aren't interested matters to this conversation how?

So you mean that in the USA there are dozens of shops selling Mac stuff per town? That there are thousands in NY alone? The market is much smaller and therefor there are far less stores for it. The ones that exist often are for the 'dumb users': Those only sell iMacs with MS Office.

Odd, I dont recall saying anything about "thousands in NY alone". You are right, the market share is less. There are still plenty of apple stores as well as authorized resellers

You can run NetBSD on a PDA. I guess there isn't a single OS or program that can't run on it then!

Your PDA lets you run quake3 or RTCW on it? Somehow I doubt that!

RtCW can run on it, but it will be faster on a new PC. I like to play on 64 player servers, I don't like to play on 64 player servers with 3 fps as maximum.

Oh yeah, a fast PPC with a Gf3 or gf4 is going to play at 3fps. Suuuuure, whatever you say fanboy.

Indeed. Far more hardware is supported by Windows 2000/XP than by OS X, or can you prove me wrong?

Funny how you skipped the "software" part of my post. And no, I dont dispute what you are saying, its only logical that OS X need not support bazillions of pieces of hardware because its a closed format and the hardware would need to be mac compatible. I didnt take issue with that, read my post again.

PC is faster, more versatile when looking at both hardware and software, the market demands Windows (It's what people know, and what most people have at home). If you think a PowerMac is better cause it is slowed and has less software, but can meet your specific needs, fine. It doesn't meet my demands, and therefor it is of no use to me. This has nothing to do with closedmindedness, this is meeting what the market wants. If you are looking for the fastest computer you don't buy a 286 or Mac, it's as simple as that.

Is sure is closed mindedness! You seem to only care about specs! Thats perfectly fine! I like having my fast PC's that can bench 300fps too. However there is a certain elegance and grace to my g4 that I enjoy. Going back to my car analogy you dont buy a car on specs and price alone, you make sure it fits your personality and style. I find the g4 complements my PC in my computer use.

BTW, you seem to be confusing what YOU want and need with what the MARKET wants. You are NOT the market!

And why are you still talking about who is the fastest? Who has disputed that? Get over it already!

Power Mac G4 computers and Macintosh Server G4 systems contain synchronous dynamic random-access memory (SDRAM)--one of the fastest memory technologies available today. SDRAM improves performance and reliability by synchronizing memory speed with the speed of the central processor so that data can be delivered continuously and more rapidly to the processor.

Ok idiot, you've already brought that up once. From what I've heard the current G4's wouldnt benefit much from DDR anyways, but the so called "g5" will feature it. X-serve already does.

P.P.S. Sun and Apple just announced that Star Office will be released for Macs next year, OpenOffice will be released for it the end of this year.

[/quote]

Your point is? The news article says " To date, no major PC makers have pledged to heavily promote StarOffice.", so are you applauding apple for promoting an alternative to microsoft?


pps im going to bed