m2 Carbine

[TehMac]

One of my favorite firearms, the M2 Carbine, gets featured in a 1944 army informational video.

Not only that, but you guys get to see some gas/spring powered automatic fire.

I just think the M2 is such a cool gun, and it's arguably America's first assault rifle, so it's worth checking out.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I don't see many situations in RL where full-auto is effective though, for the rest its just a big waste of ammo.

 

[TehMac]

I don't see many situations in RL where full-auto is effective though, for the rest its just a big waste of ammo.

You'd be surprised. That's sort of the justification the M16s were installed with the three round burst instead of full auto because some sort of study proclaimed that anymore would be "inefficient." To some extent, playing a numbers game is what lost us in Vietnam--the bureaucratization of war as opposed to the appreciation of war as both an art and a science is a dangerous game.

When the Germans introduced the STG44 in WW2 it was a major game changer, automatic fire has a purpose, even in the hands of individual personnel.

if someone were to send me off to a war with the STG44 or a garand, as much as I respect the Garand, I'm taking the STG44.

 

[l0cke]

M2 carbine is very cool, and the round is actually pretty nice.

I bet that the ATF would classify that giant model as a machine-gun

 

[Jschmuck2]

You'd be surprised. That's sort of the justification the M16s were installed with the three round burst instead of full auto because some sort of study proclaimed that anymore would be "inefficient." To some extent, playing a numbers game is what lost us in Vietnam--the bureaucratization of war as opposed to the appreciation of war as both an art and a science is a dangerous game.

When the Germans introduced the STG44 in WW2 it was a major game changer, automatic fire has a purpose, even in the hands of individual personnel.

if someone were to send me off to a war with the STG44 or a garand, as much as I respect the Garand, I'm taking the STG44.

 

[TehMac]

You have an insightful comment you would care to add?

 

[OverVolt]

I dunno the type 100 reloads so fast I think I'd go with that one.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

are you watching lock n load with r. lee earmy?

 

[TehMac]

are you watching lock n load with r. lee earmy?

I was lifting and I turned on the TV in the gym and I saw his show dealing with bunker busters--interesting stuff but a little too softcore for me. I like digging in the archives--well when I say archives, I mean youtube. I would dig in further if I lived in D.C., but I live on the opposite coast.

So I only saw one episode, and it looked cool, why do you ask good sir?

 

[HybridSquirrel]

I was lifting and I turned on the TV in the gym and I saw his show dealing with bunker busters--interesting stuff but a little too softcore for me. I like digging in the archives--well when I say archives, I mean youtube. I would dig in further if I lived in D.C., but I live on the opposite coast.

So I only saw one episode, and it looked cool, why do you ask good sir?

because he does a whole segment on the m2 =D figure thats what inspired this post. i have ita ll downloaded and usually watch it when i work out

 

[TehMac]

because he does a whole segment on the m2 =D figure thats what inspired this post. i have ita ll downloaded and usually watch it when i work out

Oooo hawt. I'll have to check it out.


edit: the only M2 I got on youtube for Lock N Load was the M2 Ma deuce .50 cal. Sure that's what you weren't referring to?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

You'd be surprised. That's sort of the justification the M16s were installed with the three round burst instead of full auto because some sort of study proclaimed that anymore would be "inefficient." To some extent, playing a numbers game is what lost us in Vietnam--the bureaucratization of war as opposed to the appreciation of war as both an art and a science is a dangerous game.

When the Germans introduced the STG44 in WW2 it was a major game changer, automatic fire has a purpose, even in the hands of individual personnel.

if someone were to send me off to a war with the STG44 or a garand, as much as I respect the Garand, I'm taking the STG44.

The reason the M16 was changed to burst was because draftees who had no business being in a war in the first place were spraying and praying in hellish situations and doing little good.

With full auto, experienced shooters can control their own bursts much like the guy does in this very video of the M2...but still have the ability to go full auto if so desired.

Sure, as ground breaking as the STG44 was in terms of making strides towards true assault rifles, the ground breaking aspect of the Garand was the fact that it was a standard issue rifle and thus was the bigger game changer.

I don't see many situations in RL where full-auto is effective though, for the rest its just a big waste of ammo.

Where would full auto be ideal? Close quarters operations, which is precisely why the M4A1 has a full auto option and is extensively used by special forces.

 

[TehMac]

The reason the M16 was changed to burst was because draftees who had no business being in a war in the first place were spraying and praying in hellish situations and doing little good.

With full auto, experienced shooters can control their own bursts much like the guy does in this very video of the M2...but still have the ability to go full auto if so desired.

I haven't read that anywhere, but I think you're right on the money.

Sure, as ground breaking as the STG44 was in terms of making strides towards true assault rifles, the ground breaking aspect of the Garand was the fact that it was a standard issue rifle and thus was the bigger game changer.

Sort of--the fact is that the STG44 doesn't get as much credit is because it was in the hands of the losers. The tacticians and armament masters think that weapons are everything.

The military has a saying "amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics" Hitler's screwed up mind was micromanaging everything, while the Allies had an organized strategic setup where there was a clear chain of command and the logistics were intensely planned out.

There have been accounts of German battalions getting STG44s paradropped into their camp and blasting themselves out of a looming Russian inf encirclement.

The M1 Garand is a solid rifle, but compared to the STG44...no I don't think so. There was more at work here than just weaponry and even tactics. One of Bradley's aides wrote a book and one of the things he said was "The scary thing about the German was that he liked to fight." and he also said "Our greatest weapon against the Nazis was Hitler."

 

[brblx]

there is really no use for full auto in an assault rifle. the only time the military will instruct you to use automatic fire (including burst) is when providing covering fire- and even then, there has to be some precision to it. your buddy's not gonna have much time to move if you spray off an entire magazine in one burst (or have a jam because of an attempt to do so.)

not to mention how ridiculously inaccurate it is, even with a very tame rifle like an M16. at best you get two on-target shots before you start to lose it. might be better with a small-caliber submachine gun; only one i've shot on auto is a thompson (.45 of course) and it was worthless after two or three shots, even with all its weight.

i highly doubt even elite commando units with full auto m4's ever fire more than three rounds at a time.

in an average firefight, an m16 on semi (which can be fired very quickly) is probably no less useful than an m16 on full. i can't claim combat experience, but i've put a lot of rounds through the fuckers and know how they behave. and as far as a 7.62 rifle on auto? go home.

even a 7.62 LMG fired from a bipod is all over the place. after the first one or two aimed shots in a long burst, you just kind of watch the tracers and herd the bullets downrange.

edit: i will say that auto has one use: hosing down trenches, concrete pillboxes, ect with extended fire to kill multiple VERY close range enemies...but we really just don't engage in that kind of warfare anymore.

 

[TehMac]

...but we really just don't engage in that kind of warfare anymore.

That same line of thinking is what the bureaucrats in the Pentagon used to justify not attaching a gun into the F-4 Phantom--because missiles both heat seeking and radar guided were supposed to be the future.

A year into its service in the combat theater of Vietnam, crew chiefs in Vietnam were attaching gun pods with M61 Vulcan cannons onto their aircraft and scored several kills on Migs.

Moral of the story: don't rule out any kind of engagement of warfare

 

[HybridSquirrel]

Oooo hawt. I'll have to check it out.


edit: the only M2 I got on youtube for Lock N Load was the M2 Ma deuce .50 cal. Sure that's what you weren't referring to?

hrmm...drinko de mayo seems to have fucked with me by saying m2 thats what i thought you meant. my bad.

 

[TehMac]

hrmm...drinko de mayo seems to have fucked with me by saying m2 thats what i thought you meant. my bad.

lol you got my hopes up for a second.

I'd be surprised for him to cover it, it's a relatively "obscure" gun, but it's actually making a comeback in gun enthusiast's conscious.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

lol you got my hopes up for a second.

I'd be surprised for him to cover it, it's a relatively "obscure" gun, but it's actually making a comeback in gun enthusiast's conscious.

my bad honestly thought thats what you meant. i have had a bit to drink tonight


I my self have taken a fancy into ww2 guns. I've recently purchased a nagant and a 8mm mauser. but the m2 carbines are selling for 2k around here.

 

[TehMac]

yea I think they technically haven't been banned because the politicians don't know about them. I doubt they're legal in CA though

 

[HybridSquirrel]

m2 carbines? aarent tehy semi auto? with an 8round mag?

 

[Born2bwire]

m2 carbines? aarent tehy semi auto? with an 8round mag?

M1 Carbine was semi-automatic, the M2 Carbine was capable of full automatic.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

You ever fire one? They're really freaking light and the drop in the stock doesn't help. Only a really bad straight blowback SMG could qualify for worse controlibility in my mind. Pretty much the first shot is on target and the rest really really aren't. However, the happy switch is a good addition to the M-1. I mean, why not? The situation may come up that you just want to dump a magazine across a room or in the general area of some movement.

9mm AR-15's and H&K UMPs got them beat for badness, but not much else does. I guess less reliable guns have them beat... but there aren't many of those that the US ever adopted.

However, I can understand somebody falling in love with the idea of the gun. I even loved the M-1 Carbine until I bought one. Jam-o-matic!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

edit: i will say that auto has one use: hosing down trenches, concrete pillboxes, ect with extended fire to kill multiple VERY close range enemies...but we really just don't engage in that kind of warfare anymore.

you forget about urban warfare?

 

[NesuD]

Worked for a guy about 25 yrs ago that had one of those. His had the folding paratroopers stock. My understanding at the time was that it was illegal as hell to have unless one had the federal license required to possess a fully automatic weapon. Don't know what is required these days but it was tough to get licensed for back then.

 

[TehMac]

you forget about urban warfare?

You quoted the wrong guy.