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LulzSec

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Jeff7 said:
Agreed.
4chan at-large at least seemed to have some set of standards for who they'd go after. (And reportedly, they love cats.) The lulz were delivered just the same.
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4chan seems to be a bunch of people having a good time by behaving badly.

4chan TP's your house while you are gone for the weekend and posts pictures on Facebook and laughs at you.

Lulz burns your house down and laughs that it's your fault for not having a fire sprinkler system.
 
ProfJohn said:
Seriously??

You go into work tomorrow and the boss calls everyone into a meeting and says
"hackers got in to my bank account and took all the money so I am going to have to close up shop and let everyone go. Sorry, it's my fault for not having better security."
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Moreover, you're implying that the security breach and the costs incurred as a result were a direct factor in the closing of the studios. Given Sony's massive profits including the costs associated with running the studios and including the cost of the security breach, it's likely that they're not hurting to keep those studios, and thus the decision to close them was an independent business decision. If Sony was still making money off those studios, or thought they could make more money off them than they currently are, they aren't going to just up and shut the doors.
 
BeauJangles said:
How is that even remotely what happened to Sony? Sony knowingly accepts credit cards and knows that by accepting and storing them, they have to provide security for them. They hire people to create that security. That security is a massive fail.

It would be like a bank hiring a private security company to secure the vault, but the security company forgetting to completely lock the door when they go home. Should you steal from them? That's entirely your prerogative, but inevitably someone will try and when they succeed most of the blame has to fall on the company responsible for the security of your money.

Analogy fail.
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Well, the bank vault's only good as long as no one puts a gun to the head of the manager, or runs in shooting while the vault's open. If the vault's locked, why not just go after the tellers? Or why not use a tow truck on the ATM machine?

I could probably rob any bank or store in my area right now too, but it'd be indecent to screw so many people over just to prove a point. Haha, you didn't have an armed guard at the door, who could just shoot and be done with anyways.

I don't give a shit about analogies. It's "indecent" or "wrong" to f*ck someone over so badly just because they're incompetent or careless. Sony had shit for security, but did someone have to go in and steal everything, just because?
 
1. I did not claim that the studio closing was related, it was an example of what can happen.

2. Sure Sony's profits are huge, but don't let class envy cloud your judgement. If you make $100,000 a year and someone steals $17,000 of it you are going to be damn pissed and that loss is going to effect your life style.

3. $170 million is a TON of money for anyone. Just because Sony is a huge company it doesn't mean that it won't hurt them to lose that amount of money. People will lose jobs or get smaller pay raises etc etc.

4. 13 million credit card numbers were stolen. How much time and money will be spent giving those people new numbers and new cards?

It is one thing to hack a home page and change it or hack some emails and publish them. It is another to do millions of dollars worth of damage to a company, even if it is Sony.
 
ProfJohn said:
3. $170 million is a TON of money for anyone. Just because Sony is a huge company it doesn't mean that it won't hurt them to lose that amount of money. People will lose jobs or get smaller pay raises etc etc.
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Particularly given that we are talking about Sony Gaming only, not Sony Films etc.
 
There was a UK report that some of them got arrested that was promptly taken offline. Wonder if it was true and the other LulzSec dudes got to the article, or if it had to be taken off because it was untrue. Both rumors circling overland
 
HAL9000 said:
So they accidentally took down PSN while leaving all the servers at Sony Media up and running?
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WHy are you so fucking stupid? If you don't know WTF you're talking about on a subject, why do you pretend to?

PSN wasn't taken down by LulzSec, PSN was taken down by Sony. They took it down THEMSELVES so that they could fix the holes that allowed LulzSec to hack them in the first place.
 
Duder1no said:
wrong again

get over it lol
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Sarcasm meter fail?

AMDZen said:
WHy are you so fucking stupid? If you don't know WTF you're talking about on a subject, why do you pretend to?

PSN wasn't taken down by LulzSec, PSN was taken down by Sony. They took it down THEMSELVES so that they could fix the holes that allowed LulzSec to hack them in the first place.
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So PSN problems weren't as a result of problems caused by LulzSec?
 
AMDZen said:
WHy are you so fucking stupid? If you don't know WTF you're talking about on a subject, why do you pretend to?

PSN wasn't taken down by LulzSec, PSN was taken down by Sony. They took it down THEMSELVES so that they could fix the holes that allowed LulzSec to hack them in the first place.
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exactly
 
ProfJohn said:
2. Sure Sony's profits are huge, but don't let class envy cloud your judgement. If you make $100,000 a year and someone steals $17,000 of it you are going to be damn pissed and that loss is going to effect your life style.

3. $170 million is a TON of money for anyone. Just because Sony is a huge company it doesn't mean that it won't hurt them to lose that amount of money. People will lose jobs or get smaller pay raises etc etc.
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Not doubt, $170K will make anyone blink. I can imagine that what won't happen is the execs will say "Hmmm, we should have done a better job making sure we had a good security implementation. Maybe I shouldn't take that 3 mil bonus this year."
 
Imp said:
Well, the bank vault's only good as long as no one puts a gun to the head of the manager, or runs in shooting while the vault's open. If the vault's locked, why not just go after the tellers? Or why not use a tow truck on the ATM machine?
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Again, epic analogy fail here.

All the situations you just proposed, if translated to Sony's situation would make me far more sympathetic because all of your scenarios involve circumventing a decent security system. LulzSec didn't do that. They exploited gaping holes in Sony's security. They walked through an open door and grabbed everything they could.

If LulzSec had attacked them with some crazy zero-day, discovered a brand-new exploit in some piece of software or had done something really ingenious to break into PSN, they'd have a lot more sympathy.

I could probably rob any bank or store in my area right now too, but it'd be indecent to screw so many people over just to prove a point. Haha, you didn't have an armed guard at the door, who could just shoot and be done with anyways.
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LulzSec are criminals, just like bank robbers.

I don't give a shit about analogies. It's "indecent" or "wrong" to f*ck someone over so badly just because they're incompetent or careless. Sony had shit for security, but did someone have to go in and steal everything, just because?
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Sony has been repeatedly warned about holes in their security and has chosen to ignore them. LulzSec committed a crime. A huge crime. Most people would not do what they did and while the law will be sympathetic to Sony in this case, as they are the victim, that doesn't mean they're innocent.
 
^ aka girls in mini skirts who get raped are to blame because they should have done a better job protecting themselves.
 
ProfJohn said:
^ aka girls in mini skirts who get raped are to blame because they should have done a better job protecting themselves.
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Your analogies stink worse than Sony's security and they have nothing to do with the to subject you're so vociferously debating

edit: And honestly, what are you debating anyway? I'm certainly not "laughing at Sony's incompetence," but I'm also not willing to let them pass the buck to a bunch of hackers when they should have been doing so much more to secure their network.

Do you think Sony is not liable at all?
Should they be blame-free as you've repeatedly implied?
Don't they have responsibility here to secure their customer's data against intrusions and take all reasonable precautions?
 
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I go to mall and leave windows open (despite signs saying to lock doors) While in mall someone steals my radio.

Your claim: It is my fault for not reading the sign and thus the criminal shouldn't be held accountable.
My claim: it is the criminals fault for stealing.
 
Why do you guys continue to try and argue? BeauJangles comes across as a spoiled, entitled brat. I doubt he has never had to actually put in a hard day's work in his life. I doubt he has ever had to shoulder the responsibility of anyone other than himself. He does not possess the necessary life experiences to understand how the world works. How society works.
 
ProfJohn said:
I go to mall and leave windows open (despite signs saying to lock doors) While in mall someone steals my radio.

Your claim: It is my fault for not reading the sign and thus the criminal shouldn't be held accountable.
My claim: it is the criminals fault for stealing.
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Its not like you're going to change your mind. and even though you're completely wrong and also an idiot at analogies, its all irrelevant. Groups like LulzSec and Anonymous are not going anywhere. Some people will love them, others will hate them.

I'd rather people are out there exposing security holes and publishing their data making it obvious so that I can see if my information has been compromised as opposed to the latter. You think LulzSec was the first in PSN stealing information? No, they were the first to publish all the info. They published it so that you, Joe Smith, see your name and info on it you know your info was compromised and to take proper action.

The 10 people in there before LolzSec getting that same info of yours didn't tell anybody and could have used it if you hadn't known the problem existed in the first place.

There is no doubt they are criminals. That isn't the argument, its what kind of criminals and hackers are they. I personally think they are more white hat than black. You are entitled to your own opinion. But they aren't going anywhere, and will only get stronger as the world becomes even more connected.
 
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