[LR] AMD releasing 7770 1Ghz Radeon shortly with 'Verdetrol'

[brybir]

That's the problem. AMD has priced the 7970 very highly and as a result the rest of the range will fall into place accordingly. This is why AMD bought back the x9xx range, so it could charge more for its top end cards as if they were new, however this has backfired with knowledgeable consumers because a) the 6900s came in at a price to match the 5800s and b) performance increases have barely shifted since the 5000 series was released. The 7970 is a rip off for a card on a new process compared to the past generation, and it should not fetch the premium it is commanding. I can only hope that sense is restored when Nvidia releases its cards, at the moment the graphics card market is a complete joke and this can only serve to damage PC gaming if it continues.

They are charging the price they think the market will bear. This is what companies do. They are not here to provide charity to their customers, they exist to make money. Calling anything a rip-off suggests that you know what its "true" value is, when price is generally only a reflection of what other people are willing to pay.

Also, I don't think that their actions are harming the gaming market. If people want to buy slower parts, there is an entire range of 6xxx series cards to purchase and a ton of cards from Nvidia at nearly every price point down to $30. If anything, this incredible range of products helps to bolster the PC gaming market as the steady pace of new products and features eventually trickle down to the lower end stuff. The released the high end part aimed squarely at those that want to best and are willing to pay for it. COnsumers are not retarded, and can quickly figure out what their budget is and what performance they can acquire for their budget.

I see nothing wrong with the current system and arguably neither do the companies making the products.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

...people want to argue Mustang vs. Charger...

Um, that'd be Mustang vs. Camero

 

[railven]

They are charging the price they think the market will bear. This is what companies do. They are not here to provide charity to their customers, they exist to make money. Calling anything a rip-off suggests that you know what its "true" value is, when price is generally only a reflection of what other people are willing to pay.

Also, I don't think that their actions are harming the gaming market. If people want to buy slower parts, there is an entire range of 6xxx series cards to purchase and a ton of cards from Nvidia at nearly every price point down to $30. If anything, this incredible range of products helps to bolster the PC gaming market as the steady pace of new products and features eventually trickle down to the lower end stuff. The released the high end part aimed squarely at those that want to best and are willing to pay for it. COnsumers are not retarded, and can quickly figure out what their budget is and what performance they can acquire for their budget.

I see nothing wrong with the current system and arguably neither do the companies making the products.

You are a word smith. Thank you for summarizing what essentially has been happening since the dawn of computer parts.

I never understood where people got the notion that new-parts are suppose to cost less than old parts (normally already discounted due to age, unless you're the GTX 580 of course), and perform better at it too.

This card will launch, it will offer what it offers, mindful buyers will buy in their reach, the old 68xx cards will disappear, this card will drop price to fill that void, and new cards will launch. Quoting Elton John seems appropriate:

It's the circle of life...

 

[Blitzvogel]

http://www.3dcenter.org/

It also doesn't help that nvidia have had no answer to the 3yr old 5770 since it's launch.

/rant

Wasn't Nvidia's answer the GTS 450? IIRC, while the 5750 would even beat it, the GTS 450 always seemed to be cheaper, sometimes by as much as $50.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

You are a word smith. Thank you for summarizing what essentially has been happening since the dawn of computer parts.

I never understood where people got the notion that new-parts are suppose to cost less than old parts (normally already discounted due to age, unless you're the GTX 580 of course), and perform better at it too.

This card will launch, it will offer what it offers, mindful buyers will buy in their reach, the old 68xx cards will disappear, this card will drop price to fill that void, and new cards will launch. Quoting Elton John seems appropriate:

Take your frikkin' pick!

With your "logic" graphics cards would be more expensive with each generation, correlating with the % performance increase over the last.

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE. 2 6950s thrash it and cost less. Couple this with your logic again and the 7970 shouldn't be selling at all. It's funny how in the UK, the 7900s are not selling, I guess other buyers are just suckers for new silicon. You may think that offering the same performance at the same price is acceptable two years later (i.e. the 7800s replacing the 6900s) while the only thing that's changed is said companies profits, but I don't. Hope you enjoy being ripped off.

 

[railven]

Take your frikkin' pick!

With your "logic" graphics cards would be more expensive with each generation.

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE.

Pick of what? Holy crap, are you guys serious?

By your logic, we'd already be paying into the thousands per GPU. Do you think videocards, the product itself, were born with the HD 7900s?

How are people so ignorant to this simple concept? It just blows my mind!

 

[IlllI]

7770 should have been slightly slower than a 6870.... Not a 6850.

has amd ever had their new x7xx card have better performance than their previous gen x8xx cards?

 

[blastingcap]

So Nvidia should dump TWIMTBP? Nvidia should stop spending millions and millions on this and other marketing gimics in order to drop prices?

Come on. Be real here. Companies spend money to get their name out there and advertise. The Google-God makes all that money on people needing to advertise.

DevRel is different from marketing and is probably much more effective bang for the buck. TWIMTBP has actual effects on a game regardless of whether or not you agree with how they got there.

Also apparently AMD *did* sack a big swath of marketing and is subcontracting it out now, according to SA.

REALLY?!?!?!?


Have you been on these forums for long (rhetorical question)....haha the Red v. Green fanboyism and factional warfare just on this one forum is much closer to "lifestyle" arguments than any legitimate comparison based on performance or features. Sure, the debates focus around those features and performance, but if it were that simple, we would not have the video card and graphics forums devolving into a poop slinging contest that constantly requires moderators to come scrap crap off the walls.

At least here, the whole video card thing is a lot like the car arguments...people want to argue Mustang vs. Charger...they both by default do the same thing...transport people and things around...both can be tuned to have the same performance times in tested events, and yet there are still rabid fans of one or the other who will go to the grave arguing that the car they like is superior for any number of generally irrelvant reasons.

The video cards wars, the car preferences etc... all just flow from human nature (whatever that is) and these marketers try to influence that. Whether it works is really going to be dependent from person to person, but I suspect that we are all being much more influenced by marketing than we will ever know (i.e. the benchmark "recommendations" that the companies give to sites, the various bitching about the other teams settings, etc etc etc all stoke the passions of one side or the other). I don't know if it works in the long run, but my thought is that if the market economy keeps demanding marketing, and companies keep seeing value in it for them, they are going to keep doing it.

Anyways, just my 2 cents on the matter

These forums are not representative of the gaming populace, most of whom will never even hear about this little stunt.

That said, yes, there is still some brand loyalty and fanboyism around. But even then, I really doubt this stunt will affect it one way or the other for either camp. Same for all those expensive XFX/AMD wannabe-viral youtube videos that hardly anyone watches except to make fun of.

I'd rather they at least spend the money writing better drivers or something. Remember when a lot of people were dissing AMD because of their CF drivers? Would marketing have solved anything? No. But they did rewrite drivers and that shut people up and let them be seen as viable competitors.

 

[busydude]

has amd ever had their new x7xx card have better performance than their previous gen x8xx cards?

5770 is faster than 4850 and close to 4870 in performance.

 

[Joseph F]

Um, that'd be Mustang vs. Camero

Um, that'd be Mustang vs. Camaro.

 

[Mopetar]

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE.

They generally outperform the previous best single GPU card available and can overclock quite well. The performance is definitely there. But much like every other card that was at the top of the pile, that performance comes at a premium.

No one's forcing you to buy the card so why complain about it?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Take your frikkin' pick!

With your "logic" graphics cards would be more expensive with each generation, correlating with the % performance increase over the last.

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE. 2 6950s thrash it and cost less. Couple this with your logic again and the 7970 shouldn't be selling at all. It's funny how in the UK, the 7900s are not selling, I guess other buyers are just suckers for new silicon. You may think that offering the same performance at the same price is acceptable two years later (i.e. the 7800s replacing the 6900s) while the only thing that's changed is said companies profits, but I don't. Hope you enjoy being ripped off.

Two 6950's 2gb's cost like $540 new, use far more power, and only beat a 7970 if crossfire scales. Don't forget about heat and noise either. I'm sorry, but that argument is not a good one.

The vast majority of PC gamers do not want the headaches that come with using SLi/Xfire. I'll gladly drop $550 for close to previous gen dual card performance in a single card.

 

[railven]

That said, yes, there is still some brand loyalty and fanboyism around. But even then, I really doubt this stunt will affect it one way or the other for either camp. Same for all those expensive XFX/AMD wannabe-viral youtube videos that hardly anyone watches except to make fun of.

If anything, MrK6's experience with the XFX HD 7970 really turned me off from that product, and the XForce Rangers (or whatever it was called) parody video only made me want to go research the Power Rangers - which I did, and realized I must have ate some glue to actually say at one point I enjoyed that show haha.

Agree though, their marketing won't really affect those of us here as when the number crunching is finalized, all the pills in the world won't make a poorly priced/performing product become recommendable. The only saving grace I see for the HD 7770 is if it OCs well and/or it performs better in DX11 titles.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Um, that'd be Mustang vs. Camaro.

D'oh! Apologies!

 

[BlockheadBrown]

The only saving grace I see for the HD 7770 is if it OCs well and/or it performs better in DX11 titles.

At the very least, it should handle tessellation better.

 

[railven]

At the very least, it should handle tessellation better.

One can only hope. Or at least until a price cut going on the rumor it is on par to an HD 6850, I'm not even sure anyone can easily recommend this product.

 

[formulav8]

The 7770 will have to drop in price to slightly under the 6850.
That means less than 130$ or so.

No way. Expect more like $199 at release. Some versions may even be $219.

 

[Arkadrel]

One can only hope. Or at least until a price cut going on the rumor it is on par to an HD 6850, I'm not even sure anyone can easily recommend this product.

Once cheaper than a 6850, you can with ease.

heres why:

DX11.1: (main things)
formalization of Stereo 3D support into the D3D API = microsoft solution.
for games that do choose to directly implement it such as Deus Ex, it will now be possible to do this through Direct3D.

Partially Resident Textures (PRT)
Eyefinity Technology 2.0 (now with "Stereo 3D" (HD3D) with multiple screens)
Discrete Digital Multi-Point Audio (DDMA) (the next step in audio output from a video card).
Fast HDMI technology (4K x 2K displays over HDMI)
VCE (very similar to Quick Sync. Encoding process via fixed function hardware (higher tuneing/quality))
Game+encode video without stressing your pc, done at the same time = win. (ei. people that frap's their gameplays)
UVD3
Steady Video 2.0
zero core (idle power much much lower, esp for crossfire setups)
Better Anisotropic Filtering quality. Ei Enhanced Quality AA = (NVIDIA’s CSAA), DX19+ and SSAA
Reduced Flickering issue to nvidia levels.
Better tessellation ability
Better Compute abilities
Lower Power usage

 

[Arkadrel]

No way. Expect more like $199 at release. Some versions may even be $219.

Why would a 7770 cost that much more than a 6850? that doesnt make sense (going by leaked performance #'s).
I remember seeing a rumor suggesting it would cost around 140-150$.

Thats too much for a 6850 performance... which is why I said it needs to come down around the 130$ levels.

 

[Mopetar]

Why would a 7770 cost that much more than a 6850? that doesnt make sense . . .

If the 7770 overclocks anything like the 7900 series cards, it will probably easily beat out the 6850. Other than AMD hiking prices simply because they can, they may be baking OC potential into the price tag.

 

[wahdangun]

Take your frikkin' pick!

With your "logic" graphics cards would be more expensive with each generation, correlating with the % performance increase over the last.

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE. 2 6950s thrash it and cost less. Couple this with your logic again and the 7970 shouldn't be selling at all. It's funny how in the UK, the 7900s are not selling, I guess other buyers are just suckers for new silicon. You may think that offering the same performance at the same price is acceptable two years later (i.e. the 7800s replacing the 6900s) while the only thing that's changed is said companies profits, but I don't. Hope you enjoy being ripped off.

did you even see what 8800 ultra price when it was released ???? and by your "logic" then after 8800 ultra released we will have HD 7970 for $1200 card right now but did that ever happen ???

 

[railven]

Take your frikkin' pick!

With your "logic" graphics cards would be more expensive with each generation, correlating with the % performance increase over the last.

It's not about charity, it's about progression. There is no progression of performance with the 7900s. NONE. 2 6950s thrash it and cost less. Couple this with your logic again and the 7970 shouldn't be selling at all. It's funny how in the UK, the 7900s are not selling, I guess other buyers are just suckers for new silicon. You may think that offering the same performance at the same price is acceptable two years later (i.e. the 7800s replacing the 6900s) while the only thing that's changed is said companies profits, but I don't. Hope you enjoy being ripped off.

Oh damn, I didn't see this guy added to his little blurp. Alright guy, where am I being ripped off? Please, give me an example.

Here are my conditions:
Single lane 16x PCIE 2.1 motherboard
$450-500 budget
1920x1080x3 resolution (optional, I know nVidia doesn't support this on one card.)

Suggest me a card that won't rip me off, by all means.

 

[Skurge]

Two 6950's 2gb's cost like $540 new, use far more power, and only beat a 7970 if crossfire scales. Don't forget about heat and noise either. I'm sorry, but that argument is not a good one.

The vast majority of PC gamers do not want the headaches that come with using SLi/Xfire. I'll gladly drop $550 for close to previous gen dual card performance in a single card.

Yep, my 2 6870s are evidence of that. Tossed them out and ordered a 7950. I've always avoided CFX/SLI. Decided to take the plunge this time and it didn't work out. Yes I know there are a lot of people have flawless multi-GPU. But I wasn't interested in the possible headaches and I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel the same way.

 

[formulav8]

Why would a 7770 cost that much more than a 6850? that doesnt make sense (going by leaked performance #'s).
I remember seeing a rumor suggesting it would cost around 140-150$.

Thats too much for a 6850 performance... which is why I said it needs to come down around the 130$ levels.

Well, AMD has modified their pricing structure. Their top 69xx series single gpu card was released at about $400 or so? While the 7970 is @ $550.

So now they will start their pricing at $550 and work their way down, instead of starting at $400 and working their way down.

This is of course my opinion and have no concrete info. But I am somewhat certain that the 7770 will Not be $130, even if it performs worse than the 6850. I could see it being $179 for the cheapest, base 7770's and go up to $199 and higher for the higher clocked/spiffied versions. ^_^


Jason

 

[Arkadrel]

@Formulac8

the 7770 is like 135mm^2 <-> 140mm^2 going by rumors.
Thats tiny.. smaller than the 5770 chip is (166mm^2).

AMD could probably price it less than 100$ and still make money off it, I doubt they ll sell them for more than 140$. That is unless they want people to buy the 6850's instead.... maybe they do? >_>