• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Low wage jobs (many temporary) dominate the recovery.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
$62K - 25% income tax - child care - medical insurance - transportation = leaving at best 20~25K for mortgage, property tax, insurance, groceries, and bills.

IMHO, an average family would scrape by with that income but wouldn't have much money for investment and entertainment.

.

Like I said, I think it would suck but it's not like you would be without food, shelter, or cable television.

By the way, I want it to be understood that I am not saying this is how I hope it all turns out in the end as it is definitely not a good thing for our country in the long run. I'm just basically saying that there are much worse places to be than pulling in $15/hour.
 
If I can sell something for $100 but it costs $110 dollars to do in the US and $25 to do in India it most certainly has everything to do with what the market can sustain.

Like i said, please tell this to everyone you meet and emphatically point out that you're a republican. I wonder if people will still believe the bullshit about trickle down economics.
 
Like i said, please tell this to everyone you meet and emphatically point out that you're a republican. I wonder if people will still believe the bullshit about trickle down economics.

The republicans already admit this. The theory is that offshoring some of the expenses prevents other layoffs. If I have a US company and I have 10 US employees, during hard times I can start buying products from China instead of USA because it saves enough money that I don't need to get rid of my 10 guys.

The side effect is that some other company then needs to get rid of a few US people :'(
 
Like i said, please tell this to everyone you meet and emphatically point out that you're a republican. I wonder if people will still believe the bullshit about trickle down economics.

Ok, then I can have no jobs that go along with selling that product in the US or India.

Genius!!!
 
Like i said, please tell this to everyone you meet and emphatically point out that you're a republican. I wonder if people will still believe the bullshit about trickle down economics.

Tell that to Clinton and NAFTA. Even as a liberal in my young, dumb and stupid days I knew that was a terrible bad idea.

Me? I buy American. What the fuck are you doing communist?
 
Tell that to Clinton and NAFTA. Even as a liberal in my young, dumb and stupid days I knew that was a terrible bad idea.

Me? I buy American. What the fuck are you doing communist?

It was the most stupid thing that Clinton did (more than Monica or anything else). Damn Reagan dreamed it up...Bush I pushed it through...and Clinton signed it. Short term gain...long term ruination.
 
It was the most stupid thing that Clinton did (more than Monica or anything else). Damn Reagan dreamed it up...Bush I pushed it through...and Clinton signed it. Short term gain...long term ruination.

No matter who or what, it had "bad idea" and unintended consequences written all over it.
 
No matter who or what, it had "bad idea" and unintended consequences written all over it.

Oh, I agree 100% with you on that. For everything Clinton did that seemed good (Atta boy), this was his AH SHIT moment that wiped them all out.

Cheap prices aren't worth a shit if you don't have a strong, money making consumer base to pay for it. The credit card did it for many years but that came to and end too...
 
Tell that to Clinton and NAFTA. Even as a liberal in my young, dumb and stupid days I knew that was a terrible bad idea.

Me? I buy American. What the fuck are you doing communist?

Nafta isn't that big of a deal, nor is Cafta. What is a big deal is offshoring of jobs to currency manipulating countries like China, and I suspect India, whose populations are enormous compared to our own.

On balance, Nafta doesn't seem to have changed things significantly wrt Canada, and increasing opportunities in Mexico just means less pressure for illegal immigration into the US.

You buy American? really? Where did your computer come from? Your television, sound system, GPS & cell phone? Your clothes? Maybe you bought an American car, but lots of the parts are made in other parts of the world, maybe most of them. What else?
 
Heh. Spoken like a true devotee of "I've got mine, so the rest of you can just ESAD."

Oh, and you just moved the median family income up from $50K to $64K, kinda auto-magically in your mind. From 1 part time and 1 full time or 2 part time jobs to 2 non-existent $15/hr full time jobs, apparently just so you can defend the fantasy you created.

You probably think those jobs have some kind of benefit package, too, but they don't. And you probably think people making that kind of money, rather tenuously, will somehow find a way to buy & occupy all the homes currently being foreclosed, so as to stimulate the economy, you know? And if they can't afford to buy them, then they really can't afford to rent them, either. Landlords seek positive cashflow, after all.

The transition period of our economy is coming to an end. That's the part where the low price of imported goods and easy credit, increasing debt, made offshoring and automation seem to be a good deal for the middle class. Now, well now, we come to the part that all of the ravers who rah-rah about the global economy and free flow of capital didn't mention- that you need to have a job, a decent job, to enjoy those things, and that such jobs are becoming scarcer every day as a consequence of the basic proposition.

We're experiencing a situation where some middle class families thrive, largely on the basis of luck, other get beat down to working class, all so the richest can become a whole lot richer. Don't worry, though- they have plans to make us all working class, if we're lucky, and to find ways to get us to blame each other rather than the real perps. You already bought into that last part, obviously.

I didn't move anything anywhere. I quoted my figured directly from the poster I was responding to.

Just FYI, I KNOW that it's possible to live on that, because I DO live on $62k as my household income. In California. With medical benefits paid for by me. And two car payments. I've got Internet, phone service, cell phone, running water, I eat every day, and I can even take a small trip once a year with my wife (went to North Lake Tahoe a couple months ago). Now, if I can do that on < $62k/yr in California, anyone can do that in the interior states.

All middle class families are getting beat to shit. Social liberals have been eroding the middle class for decades. What you're trying to do is create a middle class by forcing specific employment, wage, and compensation packages via legislation. That's not a middle class, though. Regardless of how "well" the government forces them to be paid, a class that is dependent upon the government cannot by definition be a middle class. It's a lower class. All you've succeeded in doing is making everyone who was middle class lower class and everyone who was lower class gets shoved into a underclass of even more poverty.

You can't legislate a middle class. The market has to create one for itself. Unfortunately, it's harder and harder to do that, largely thanks to idiotic and inflationary government regulation.
 
This topic is really an extension of the same topic going back to the early parts of the last decade.


Most job growth has been in lower wage service-retail and lower paying mfg by multinational corporations like Toyota...

All the collapse did was speed its growth...
 
I take it you have no children, drebo, and that you're probably 3 paychecks away from bankruptcy. Also that you're relatively young and in good health, never had serious medical expenses.

Which makes living on 62K entirely do-able, no doubt. Contemplate the costs of providing daycare for children while you both work. Contemplate being laid off for an extended period, or having some sort of medical emergency that costs more than your annual gross income.

It wasn't your precious market that created the middle class as we know it, but rather a protected economy, and an economy that created a balance of trade surplus. An economy that was strengthened and made competitive by truly progressive taxes and limits on the export of capital. An economy constrained from doing stupid and greedy things by the strictures of New Deal banking and investment laws.

The middle class was doing just fine until the nation was stupid enough to elect Reagan, and follow the pied piper of trickledown economics.
 
Tell that to Clinton and NAFTA. Even as a liberal in my young, dumb and stupid days I knew that was a terrible bad idea.

Me? I buy American. What the fuck are you doing communist?

I've always said Clinton was one of the most rightwing presidents. P.S. If you're against free trade, that makes you a commie.
 
The middle class was doing just fine until the nation was stupid enough to elect Reagan, and follow the pied piper of trickledown economics.

Did Reagan come along just after the first generation living on the Great Society liberal handouts came into power?

They started learning that they can count on the government to bail them out of bad decisions.

The bottom of the middle class learned that they could take a step down and end up much better off.
 
Nafta isn't that big of a deal, nor is Cafta. What is a big deal is offshoring of jobs to currency manipulating countries like China, and I suspect India, whose populations are enormous compared to our own.

On balance, Nafta doesn't seem to have changed things significantly wrt Canada, and increasing opportunities in Mexico just means less pressure for illegal immigration into the US.

You buy American? really? Where did your computer come from? Your television, sound system, GPS & cell phone? Your clothes? Maybe you bought an American car, but lots of the parts are made in other parts of the world, maybe most of them. What else?

Good point. It's impossible to 'buy American' for a large number of goods. Spidey is a fucking liar as usual. I don't even claim to 'buy American' 100% of the time. Especially for electronics, you literally have no choice.

Spidey, do a fucking inventory of all the goods in your house. I suspect that most of your shit is not American, especially if you post on anandtech, you probably have a ton of gadgets made oversees.
 
Nafta isn't that big of a deal, nor is Cafta. What is a big deal is offshoring of jobs to currency manipulating countries like China, and I suspect India, whose populations are enormous compared to our own.

On balance, Nafta doesn't seem to have changed things significantly wrt Canada, and increasing opportunities in Mexico just means less pressure for illegal immigration into the US.

You buy American? really? Where did your computer come from? Your television, sound system, GPS & cell phone? Your clothes? Maybe you bought an American car, but lots of the parts are made in other parts of the world, maybe most of them. What else?


NAFTA wasn't a big deal , just ask Hillary, she couldn't even remember what the fuss was all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBypp2hqxaQ

The Wonderful World of NAFTA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnVL0d9fwkY&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxQQael1ueE&feature=fvw
 
Good point. It's impossible to 'buy American' for a large number of goods. Spidey is a fucking liar as usual. I don't even claim to 'buy American' 100&#37; of the time. Especially for electronics, you literally have no choice.

Spidey, do a fucking inventory of all the goods in your house. I suspect that most of your shit is not American, especially if you post on anandtech, you probably have a ton of gadgets made oversees.

My speakers are martin logan, my pre and amps are krell. Made in America. No I don't buy 100% american but if I have a choice and even if american product is more expensive I will buy it.
 
My speakers are martin logan, my pre and amps are krell. Made in America. No I don't buy 100% american but if I have a choice and even if american product is more expensive I will buy it.

Wow, your speakers and amps. You are the most red blooded American ever.

P.S. You're more 'communist' than you let on since a) You said you only hired union labor in another thread and b) You're against free trade. I should report you to the local GOP headquarters.
 
I didn't realize $15/hr was awful? Assuming you're getting 40 hours a week that is. Plus understand that 'temp' work doesn't quite mean the same thing that it used to mean. In many cases it just means the company now doesn't hire directly and chooses to go through a temp agency but the position is still basically a regular full-time job.

Do you think those jobs provide good, decent affordable health insurance? Also, what happens if you have student loans to pay off? (Since, according to this study, few jobs that pay over $15/hour were created, it seems like a good assumption that many college graduates will have to take the jobs that pay $15/hour and under.)
 
Lets be serious now,those manufacturing and IT jobs that have been outsourced, they are never coming back.

We could get those jobs back if we wanted to by ending our exposure to global labor arbitrage. We could impose stiff tariffs on imported goods, eliminate the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, and end mass immigration--if we wanted to.
 
Maybe the wages down to $15 hour or less is simple a Correction and Many people are just overpaid! Just like real estate is over-valued.

Just close the borders, and start rounding up illegal labor. Make it painful to export jobs overseas. What I see is a dangerous situation if we export a lot of jobs to one country like China or India. Maybe we need value added taxes for labor performed outside of the USA! If you buy a car and it says made in the USA, it is a lie. Was it just assembled in the USA, or was it really made in the USA? Parts can come from places like Mexico and Canada and other countries. Just look at computers. Why do almost all the parts come from China??? What if China starts a war and computer parts rise 10 times the normal price? What are we going to do then?
 
Last edited:
US grads will have to consider employment out side the US in the field of their choosing with the realization that the US will be dominated by low end service jobs for decades to come.

Where will they go? The world doesn't have any shortage of college graduates. Also, other nations probably aren't stupid enough to welcome foreign labor unless their own citizens are employed in those good jobs.

A young person's best bet might be to try to find sanctuary and citizenship in a Western European or Scandinavian country or to go to Australia or New Zealand. At least in those nations health care won't be a concern. However, those nations probably aren't stupid enough to allow anyone who wants to immigrate to immigrate.
 
The republicans already admit this. The theory is that offshoring some of the expenses prevents other layoffs.

It's complete free market dogmatist hogwash. What that argument fails to mention is that without the foreign outsourcing it wouldn't be necessary to have layoffs at all.
 
Back
Top