Low wage jobs (many temporary) dominate the recovery.

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Click me.

I suspected that many jobs were being run through as temporary (by looking around companies in several states while doing jobs there). While companies rack up cash and profits, workers get less and less. Not sure of benefits (if any) though. But just keep looking the other way while offshoring of our economy continues....:whiste::whiste:

Chris Isidore, senior writer, On Monday January 31, 2011, 8:29 am EST

There are two problems with the jobs recovery to date. Employers haven't added enough jobs. And those they have added aren't particularly good ones.

The former has gotten a lot of attention. But the low-wage jobs that have been added are also a cause for concern.

"Growth has been concentrated in mid-wage and lower-wage industries. By contrast, higher-wage industries showed weak growth and even net losses," said Annette Bernhardt, policy co-director for the National Employment Project. She said that growth has been far more unbalanced than during previous job recoveries.

Bernhardt's analysis of the first seven months of 2010 found that 76% of jobs created were in low- to mid-wage industries -- those earning between $8.92 to $15 an hour, well below the national average hourly wage of $22.60.

But the biggest problem is continued job losses in higher-wage industries severely hit by the bursting of the housing bubble -- construction and financial services. Recoveries in those sectors helped lead the economy out of earlier downturns, but they're still suffering more than a year and a half after the official end of the Great Recession.

High-wage sectors -- made up of jobs that pay between $17.43 and $31 an hour -- accounted for nearly half the jobs lost during the recession, but have produced only 5% of the new jobs since hiring resumed, Bernhardt's study showed.

Even in some of the higher-wage industries that are hiring, it's lower-wage occupations within the sector where the jobs are being added, according to William Rodgers, chief economist for the Heldrich Center for Workforce Development at Rutgers University.

Case in point: Professional and business services sectors gained a healthy 366,000 jobs in 2010. Workers in that sector earned $27.23 an hour, on average, in 2010. But almost all of the new jobs -- 308,000 -- came in temporary help services, where the average hourly wage was only $15 an hour.

And those temporary jobs accounted for nearly one in four jobs created by all types of businesses last year.

"This recovery is being driven very much by temp employers," said Rodgers.

Will it last?

A big worry is whether the trend toward low-wage jobs will continue. Experts say it's too soon to tell.

But the Bureau of Labor Statistics has made some worrisome projections about the pay for jobs likely to be created.

The BLS's most recent job growth forecast, published back in November 2009 and projecting the job market from 2008 through 2018, identified 30 different occupations expected to experience the best growth.

The good news is that the occupation expected to add the most jobs over those 10 years -- registered nurse -- is considered "very high wage." But the six occupations with the largest gains are all classified as either "low wage" or "very low wage." Among those jobs are home health aides, retail sales people and food preparation -- including fast food workers.

Overall, 55% of the jobs growth forecasted in the 30 fastest-growing occupations identified by BLS, are considered to be low- or very low-wage.

The greater number of low-wage jobs shouldn't be a surprise, said Kristina J. Bartsch, chief of occupational outlook for BLS, simply because higher-wage occupations are always going to be in the minority. Some of the jobs projected to enjoy the fastest pace of growth are very high-wage.

For example, network systems and data communications analyst jobs are projected to increase by more than 50%, but they are still only a small portion of the workforce.

"By and large, occupations that are more high skill, and have high wages, are fast growing," she said. "They're just not as huge as waiters and waitresses."
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Click me.

I suspected that many jobs were being run through as temporary (by looking around companies in several states while doing jobs there). While companies rack up cash and profits, workers get less and less. Not sure of benefits (if any) though.

speaking for myself, $15 an hour isn't so bad. Especially if overtime is on the table.

I can scrape by on that just barely with a wife, kid, and mortgage.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
I didn't realize $15/hr was awful? Assuming you're getting 40 hours a week that is. Plus understand that 'temp' work doesn't quite mean the same thing that it used to mean. In many cases it just means the company now doesn't hire directly and chooses to go through a temp agency but the position is still basically a regular full-time job.

(Also, I'm referring to $15/hr not being awful on average, not in California or other high-wage locations)
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I didn't realize $15/hr was awful? Assuming you're getting 40 hours a week that is. Plus understand that 'temp' work doesn't quite mean the same thing that it used to mean. In many cases it just means the company now doesn't hire directly and chooses to go through a temp agency but the position is still basically a regular full-time job.

(Also, I'm referring to $15/hr not being awful on average, not in California or other high-wage locations)

That's not much higher than unemployment compensation in my state. If somebody takes a 15/hr job they have got to be really desperate.

Companies use temp labor for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is being able to fire them without any worries about any labor laws or recourse. Companies are using temp labor in these uncertain times specifically for that reason and it shouldn't really surprise anybody.
 
Last edited:

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
That's not much higher than unemployment compensation in my state. If somebody takes a 15/hr job they have got to be really desperate.

Which state?

Actually, I just googled 'median household income 2010' and found the following link. Granted the data cuts off at 2009 but it does show a median income in the US just shy of $50k/yr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

At $15/hr, x2 wage earners, assuming they work 40 hours per week and actually get paid for those 40 hours a week you are looking at $15x2x40x52 = $62400/year. I know there will be some days they will not be paid but honestly, relative to the median, that is not awful money.

If I'm missing something (like what some may define the term 'temporary' to really mean in today's world) then that's fine but all I'm saying is that if a person can get a $15/job and actually hold on to it then they are not doing too bad relatively speaking. Would I want to make only $15/hr? Not a chance in hell but at the same time it's not on a level where you would be struggling to keep the power on and food on the table either if you're actually smart with the money.

(This also assumes that the people are working only one job at 40 hours/wk and are not working some additional hours for another business or themselves.)
 
Last edited:

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Holy inflation. That's pretty damn good for unskilled labor.

JS80 isn't happy until the average American is making 50 cents an hour and living in mud huts. Just don't touch HIS salary.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Which state?

Kentucky. Works out to about 11.50/hour. Even the manufacturing industry is using temp labor to help out with the slight increase in demand/production. It works well for them in meeting production needs quickly and still being able to let the temp staff go quickly if predictions/indicators take a downward turn. Allows them to act swiftly and manage their human capital in a rightsizing methodology.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Kentucky. Works out to about 11.50/hour. Even the manufacturing industry is using temp labor to help out with the slight increase in demand/production. It works well for them in meeting production needs quickly and still being able to let the temp staff go quickly if predictions/indicators take a downward turn. Allows them to act swiftly and manage their human capital in a rightsizing methodology.

Not surprised that you'd be talking in corporate euphemisms.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Not surprised that you'd be talking in corporate euphemisms.

lulz, you missed the other one I put in there purposefully - "human capital".

But the point remains, until strong indicators show that demand is here to stay and grow temp workers will be the norm. It's even showing up in the professional world using temp contract labor to meet project/business demands.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
lulz, you missed the other one I put in there purposefully - "human capital".

But the point remains, until strong indicators show that demand is here to stay and grow temp workers will be the norm. It's even showing up in the professional world using temp contract labor to meet project/business demands.

I think in terms of manufacturing it may just be here to stay for good.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
I didn't realize $15/hr was awful? Assuming you're getting 40 hours a week that is. Plus understand that 'temp' work doesn't quite mean the same thing that it used to mean. In many cases it just means the company now doesn't hire directly and chooses to go through a temp agency but the position is still basically a regular full-time job.

(Also, I'm referring to $15/hr not being awful on average, not in California or other high-wage locations)

If your previous Wage was in the Mid to High $20 range, $15 is catastrophic. Especially in certain locales.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
lulz, you missed the other one I put in there purposefully - "human capital".

But the point remains, until strong indicators show that demand is here to stay and grow temp workers will be the norm. It's even showing up in the professional world using temp contract labor to meet project/business demands.

Human Capital is actually not a euphemism like 'rightsizing' is. But in any case, corporations have found out that they don't need Americans working for them to be highly profitable, that's the point. They're hiring workers and making money from international workers while America is going down the drain.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I think in terms of manufacturing it may just be here to stay for good.

I don't think so. Right now they're being used to tackle the small peaks in production and they aren't as good as a regular employee, you get what you pay for ya know. If demand comes back and stays at good levels you'll see more FT employees. The temps have a habit of just not showing up for work. You get what you pay for.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
15 dollars an hour and 40 hrs a week? I've done that and lower before. A job is a job and money coming in is better than no money at all.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
I don't think so. Right now they're being used to tackle the small peaks in production and they aren't as good as a regular employee, you get what you pay for ya know. If demand comes back and stays at good levels you'll see more FT employees. The temps have a habit of just not showing up for work. You get what you pay for.

A bloo bloo bloo, that only makes sense when there isn't an oversupply of workers. Why pay full time wages/benefits when you can have your pick of the liter of low-medium-high skilled (but out of work) temp employees and also oversees employees.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
If your previous Wage was in the Mid to High $20 range, $15 is catastrophic. Especially in certain locales.

Yep you're definitely right on that point. I'm just saying that $15/hr is survivable. But yeah if that person is in a home that was based on earning $30/hr then there is a different picture to paint.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,366
740
126
Lets be serious now,those manufacturing and IT jobs that have been outsourced, they are never coming back. they will continue to decline... those people have to do with whatever they can get, we should be thankful that there is still something left and those people will atleast be able to get something... and not have to go hungry or get into welfare lines...
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
$15 an hour, you can survive. Might have to work part-time, but if you have paid for benefits, you can get by. The only thing in the blurb that gets me is the national average is $22 an hour. That just doesn't seem possible. Unless they are lumping all work sectors together which would produce a completely slanted number. But no way is the national salary average of working people 46K a year. I just don't believe that.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
I didn't realize $15/hr was awful? Assuming you're getting 40 hours a week that is. Plus understand that 'temp' work doesn't quite mean the same thing that it used to mean. In many cases it just means the company now doesn't hire directly and chooses to go through a temp agency but the position is still basically a regular full-time job.

(Also, I'm referring to $15/hr not being awful on average, not in California or other high-wage locations)



Along those lines: $15/hr = $31,200 a year, presuming 40 a week, and no vacation. The national average is $44K, or 33% more than the $15/hr..

Also - Temporary workers generally do not receive Health Care (Cobra, which is out of pocket), or retirement/401(k), or vacation, nor any hourly guarantees. Nor any paid vacation... etc etc etc...
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
2,157
136
Lets be serious now,those manufacturing and IT jobs that have been outsourced, they are never coming back. they will continue to decline... those people have to do with whatever they can get, we should be thankful that there is still something left and those people will atleast be able to get something... and not have to go hungry or get into welfare lines...


I used to work in a fairly large IT organization. Most of the people, including myself, have been laid off over the past two years. They are about to layoff more in the near future. The work will be going Brazil. My former coworkers who have been lucky enough to find jobs have only found much lower paying jobs. One friend was telling me that his teenage daughter working at Five Guys burger joint was making more than him . He found a better job recently. It doesn't pay much more but the benefits are good.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Temp employees are always how restarting economies start. Business does not want to hire full time/Perm people if they are not sure they will be able to keep all. If it keeps up or they need more than they hire the good people. I started as a Temp in the Pharm and got on fulltime after a while.

Also how many of these "underpaid" people were makeing more than they should before. I remeber many people selling mortages making 6 figures yet before that they be asking for your reciept at wal-mart.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
It isn't that $15 is terrible, it's that jobs that were once high paying (much higher in some case WITH benefits) are being replace with the lower paying jobs. 70% of our economy is consumer spending.....just saying.