Lovely.

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Grow up :roll:

200+ years of capitalism has formed America into the world's greatest power, championing freedom and liberty to a world which otherwise would not be free - and you want to throw it all away because of a small hiccup?

I wish some of you idiots lived during the gilded age when capitalism meant children working 7 days a week losing limbs in factory machines and factory bosses hired goons to beat up people trying to organize a union.

You only think capitalism is so great because after those abuses, government gave us more protection (i.e. 40 hour work week, no child labor, more safety laws, etc. etc.) that you now enjoy

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

The USSR had crushed germany before the united states had a boot on the continent.
Text
Text
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if you aggregate the combined army/navy/airforce of the eu, its actually pretty damn big, albeit only about 1/2 the size of the us military. combined they have 7 carriers for instance; which is over 1/2 of all non-american carriers.

The point you are making is that Europe would have fell to communism if it were not for America. Great Britain still has military strength, the rest of Europe are nothing but pansies, naive in thinking evil is defeated by handing out flowers. :roll:

European Socialism has created an aging secular population with no care to fight for their way of life.

The armed forces of the United Kingdom, commonly known as the British Armed Forces or His/Her Majesty's Armed Forces, and sometimes legally the Armed Forces of the Crown,[1] encompasses a navy, an army, and an air force. With a reported personnel strength of 425,500 in 2006 (191,900 regular force, 191,300 regular reserve, and 42,300 volunteer reserve), the British Armed Forces constitutes one of the largest militaries in Europe after the french armed forces , though only the 26th largest in the world by number of troops.

With a reported personnel strength of 779,450 in 2006 (259,050 regular force[1], 419,000 regular reserve[2], and 101,400 law enforcement Gendarmerie[3]), the French Armed Forces constitutes the largest military in European Union and the 20th largest in the world by number of troops. The French Armed Forces however have the 3rd highest expenditure of any military in the world, as well as the 3rd largest nuclear force in the world, only behind the United States and Russia.

the british military is barely half of the pansy french

The Italian armed forces are under the command of the Italian Supreme Defense Council, presided over by the President of the Italian Republic. The total number of military personnel is approximately 308,000. Italy has the eighth highest military expenditure in the world.

military expendatures by country
nuclear stockpiles

Yeah, we saw how effectively they handled Bosnia...

and the american response was much better :roll:

eit: broken quote fixed

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

i'm sure 40 years of propaganda and fud have nothing to do with that.

I'm sure wide-eyed college kids with leftist teachers have nothing to do with that either?

where are my leftist profs at? i can really only think of one or two.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Yeah, i'm so sorry that the federal government forced AIG to create those wacky insurance products that's bringing doom and gloom to our economy.

Oh wait, AIG did that themselves

Who lobbied congress to lift restrictions?!?!?!?!?

AIG lobbies congress, donates to congress, congress does it. AIG profits from the lack of regulation until the cards crumble. Then who bails out AIG? The people AIG lobbies\pays in congress.

You dont see the cronyism or fascism in that setup?

So again the idea we have unfettered capitalism in this country is laughable.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Grow up :roll:

200+ years of capitalism has formed America into the world's greatest power, championing freedom and liberty to a world which otherwise would not be free - and you want to throw it all away because of a small hiccup?

what type of 'capitalism' are you talking about?

the united states has also practiced 200+ years of varying degrees of 'socialism*'

* referring to government intervention in the economy and/or government ownership of the means of production

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

The USSR had crushed germany before the united states had a boot on the continent.
Text
Text
Text
Text


if you aggregate the combined army/navy/airforce of the eu, its actually pretty damn big, albeit only about 1/2 the size of the us military. combined they have 7 carriers for instance; which is over 1/2 of all non-american carriers.

The point you are making is that Europe would have fell to communism if it were not for America. Great Britain still has military strength, the rest of Europe are nothing but pansies, naive in thinking evil is defeated by handing out flowers. :roll:

European Socialism has created an aging secular population with no care to fight for their way of life.

Yeah, we saw how effectively they handled Bosnia on their own...

No, his point is that you were wrong. Communism (in the guise of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... hmmm) defeated Nazism and fascism. From a military strength standpoint if the USSR had wanted to, they could have kept rolling right through to the beaches of Normandy, straight over the forces of Capitalist America. We fought what the Wehrmacht thought it could spare from the eastern front.

Your view of the world is childish and caricatured. You either need to grow up or read some more books.

 

[Drako]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

It's mostly due to life experience. Once you've actually been out in the work force for 20 or more years, you will have a different perspective.

I'm not sure where you get the BS about "those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism". Having grown up in the 60's, I certainly did not see that.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Smarter than the indebted peons who are losing their houses, aren't they?

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Taken to its logical conclusion, do you think sub-30-40 year olds could lead the country better than their elders?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Your post is ironic considering you admittedly work for a defense contractor.

When did I say that? I said I have friends that work for one .

Not to mention, your remark is completely unfounded as was your remark in that other thread. You really ought to see exactly what aspects of your life these so called "worthless defense contractors" actually have a part in.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I think what your experience really showed you is that the word 'socialism' is a pejorative in American society due to our years of anticommunist rhetoric that has been thrown around. Ideas aren't bad because Karl Marx had them, they are good or bad on their own. If someone changes their mind on an idea simply because the label attached to the idea is changed, what does that say?

I would agree with you on the Karl Marx portion of the radio show, but when he simply asked a guy who kept agreeing that we should have all these social services where the money should come from, he eventually changed his statement thinking that maybe they shouldn't provide all of these wonderful benefits.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Phokus

Yeah, i'm so sorry that the federal government forced AIG to create those wacky insurance products that's bringing doom and gloom to our economy.

Oh wait, AIG did that themselves

Who lobbied congress to lift restrictions?!?!?!?!?

AIG lobbies congress, donates to congress, congress does it. AIG profits from the lack of regulation until the cards crumble. Then who bails out AIG? The people AIG lobbies\pays in congress.

You dont see the cronyism or fascism in that setup?

So again the idea we have unfettered capitalism in this country is laughable.

Wait... are you actually trying to discuss something with this clown? Good luck with that.

Someone who spams the most simplistically one-sided bullshit like a black and white political stooge-bot like Phokus cannot comprehend the unholy alliance between government and big business that a mixed economy creates. It's 100% capitalism is teh eval!

 

[nCred]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

The USSR had crushed germany before the united states had a boot on the continent.
Text
Text
Text
Text


if you aggregate the combined army/navy/airforce of the eu, its actually pretty damn big, albeit only about 1/2 the size of the us military. combined they have 7 carriers for instance; which is over 1/2 of all non-american carriers.

The point you are making is that Europe would have fell to communism if it were not for America. Great Britain still has military strength, the rest of Europe are nothing but pansies, naive in thinking evil is defeated by handing out flowers. :roll:

European Socialism has created an aging secular population with no care to fight for their way of life.

Yeah, we saw how effectively they handled Bosnia on their own...

Wow, lots of ignorance here, why are you bringing up WWII? You do realize that most of the welfare systems in Europe were built up in the 60's and 70´s right? Also look at the link miketheidiot brought up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L..._military_expenditures

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Phokus
Your post is ironic considering you admittedly work for a defense contractor.

When did I say that? I said I have friends that work for one .

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I think what your experience really showed you is that the word 'socialism' is a pejorative in American society due to our years of anticommunist rhetoric that has been thrown around. Ideas aren't bad because Karl Marx had them, they are good or bad on their own. If someone changes their mind on an idea simply because the label attached to the idea is changed, what does that say?

I would agree with you on the Karl Marx portion of the radio show, but when he simply asked a guy who kept agreeing that we should have all these social services where the money should come from, he eventually changed his statement thinking that maybe they shouldn't provide all of these wonderful benefits.

I'm sure the host was able to do that pretty easily. The guy he's talking to has probably never given the issue that much thought, and the host has already carefully planned out his argument. Even if you're completely wrong on an issue, if you have had adequate preparation for it and your opponent has not you can quite likely win the discussion easily.

The other thing this radio show shows is that Americans don't have the first clue about politics or public policy. This is hardly a phenomenon of the left however, in fact there's no partisan correlation whatsoever when it comes to political stupidity. Hannity's show was just trying to show the ignorance of an individual on an issue to make a statement to the effect of 'libruls only think that way because they don't know what they are talking about'. It's a pretty common argument that both sides use pretty consistently, and one that I've always found funny because anyone nodding their heads to an obvious ploy like that is probably massively ignorant themselves.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

Yeah, that and now we're feeling the effects of unfettered capitalism, the poll isn't much of a surprise.

Unless of course you know what you're talking about, in which case you'd realize unfettered capitalism isn't the cause of this.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Grow up :roll:

200+ years of capitalism has formed America into the world's greatest power, championing freedom and liberty to a world which otherwise would not be free - and you want to throw it all away because of a small hiccup?

I wish some of you idiots lived during the gilded age when capitalism meant children working 7 days a week losing limbs in factory machines and factory bosses hired goons to beat up people trying to organize a union.

You only think capitalism is so great because after those abuses, government gave us more protection (i.e. 40 hour work week, no child labor, more safety laws, etc. etc.) that you now enjoy

Would you prefer that capitalism be done away with because the exceptions should dictate the rules? Even Milton Freidman conceded that the hard edges of capitalism should be softened. To this extent, the government has its role.

 

[Atreus21]

Double post.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'm sure the host was able to do that pretty easily. The guy he's talking to has probably never given the issue that much thought, and the host has already carefully planned out his argument. Even if you're completely wrong on an issue, if you have had adequate preparation for it and your opponent has not you can quite likely win the discussion easily.

I can't really disagree with that.

Originally posted by: eskimospy
The other thing this radio show shows is that Americans don't have the first clue about politics or public policy. This is hardly a phenomenon of the left however, in fact there's no partisan correlation whatsoever when it comes to political stupidity. Hannity's show was just trying to show the ignorance of an individual on an issue to make a statement to the effect of 'libruls only think that way because they don't know what they are talking about'. It's a pretty common argument that both sides use pretty consistently, and one that I've always found funny because anyone nodding their heads to an obvious ploy like that is probably massively ignorant themselves.

That first sentence is kind of what I was trying to get after (but I've been known to be quite verbose without ever saying what I mean... I should go into politics! ). I was attempting to convey that the listeners on the radio show are possibly representative of the people in the original post that are all gung-ho over socialism and that chances are (like you said), they don't really know much more about it than it means free hand-outs.

Personally, I think it's amusing watching people stumble over the questions regardless of which side is "attacking" whom and we won't even get into the idea of the statistical significance of two people out of millions . Although I also found it amusing how he made sure to especially point out the one guy's job (an engineer) to convey some sort of higher echelon of knowledge that the guy must have on politics that gave him this opinion .

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Titan
"We are all equal" is total BS. Fairy Tale.

When no one is older than another one, no one is a different sex from another one, and no one wants to form their own team away from the main group, then maybe we can start talking about Socialism.

The simple natural fact of age is enough to put a monkey wrench into the works. As long as there's some old bastard doing what he wants because he's been here longer and has seniority, he won't agree to socialism.

You can make systems that are more fair than others, it's true. But don't tell me it's because we are all equal. That's just the marketing, not the product.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
GTFO

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Grow up :roll:

200+ years of capitalism has formed America into the world's greatest power, championing freedom and liberty to a world which otherwise would not be free - and you want to throw it all away because of a small hiccup?

I wish some of you idiots lived during the gilded age when capitalism meant children working 7 days a week losing limbs in factory machines and factory bosses hired goons to beat up people trying to organize a union.

You only think capitalism is so great because after those abuses, government gave us more protection (i.e. 40 hour work week, no child labor, more safety laws, etc. etc.) that you now enjoy

Would you prefer that capitalism be done away with because the exceptions should dictate the rules? Even Milton Freidman conceded that the hard edges of capitalism should be softened. To this extent, the government has its role.

My post implied that capitalism is 'good' because the government doesn't let it get carried away with abuses, of course i don't want to do away with capitalism.

 

[TheSlamma]

53% of how many and where? 500 people they surveyed in a bread line? or on a collage campus?

 

[JSFLY]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

They are also more likely to be biased.... they make more $$$ under capitalism than socialism.

 

[JSFLY]

Originally posted by: waggy
and this is why we people are not pissed off at Obama and we are going to have more like him.

yes IF everything was perfect Socialism works. But we know this is not a perfect world. Socialism has failed time and time again. Pity so many have no idea.

Originally posted by: OCguy
This just in: 85% of Americans couldnt even tell you what the difference is.

I think this applies to some of the people on these boards as well...

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

Your confusing socialism with communism.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

First of all, ALL of Europe are mixed economies MUCH like the US, except MOST of the EU countries don't have as much government regulation on the free market as the US does which makes them MORE capitalistic than the US.

An no, you saved yourselves from all of that, not one single other nation, you would have been fine with the Nazis ruling Europe, your own president said as much (in a radio speech one week prior to the Pearl Harbour bombings and Germany declaring war on you).

You might see yourselves as the worlds police but you're not, nor do any sane human being not indoctrinated with that propaganda believe that you are.

You go to war to preserve your interests, not anyone elses.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

First of all, ALL of Europe are mixed economies MUCH like the US, except MOST of the EU countries don't have as much government regulation on the free market as the US does which makes them MORE capitalistic than the US.

An no, you saved yourselves from all of that, not one single other nation, you would have been fine with the Nazis ruling Europe, your own president said as much (in a radio speech one week prior to the Pearl Harbour bombings and Germany declaring war on you).

You might see yourselves as the worlds police but you're not, nor do any sane human being not indoctrinated with that propaganda believe that you are.

You go to war to preserve your interests, not anyone elses.

True, but now you've put the poor lad right off his lunchables.

meaney.

 

[IGBT]

Socialism is great way to make all equally miserable. you guys voted for it so don't complain.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Titan
"We are all equal" is total BS. Fairy Tale.

When no one is older than another one, no one is a different sex from another one, and no one wants to form their own team away from the main group, then maybe we can start talking about Socialism.

The simple natural fact of age is enough to put a monkey wrench into the works. As long as there's some old bastard doing what he wants because he's been here longer and has seniority, he won't agree to socialism.

You can make systems that are more fair than others, it's true. But don't tell me it's because we are all equal. That's just the marketing, not the product.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"
GTFO

equality =/= equity