Lovely.

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

The USSR had crushed germany before the united states had a boot on the continent.
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if you aggregate the combined army/navy/airforce of the eu, its actually pretty damn big, albeit only about 1/2 the size of the us military. combined they have 7 carriers for instance; which is over 1/2 of all non-american carriers.

 

[Genx87]

Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

 

[lupi]

The messiah said it, so shall it be.

 

[CPA]

sickening.

 

[winnar111]

yeah, our glorious messiah is one of them.

At least Biden has an inkling of sense.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

Yeah, that and now we're feeling the effects of unfettered capitalism, the poll isn't much of a surprise.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

somehow i don't think that these people responding to 'socialism' are saying they woudl prefer authoritarian socialism in the soviet sense, but rather the democratic socialism that has been followed in western europe and other countries around the world fairly successfully.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Well....

The *ideals* of socialism is great on paper, but once you face the reality of it (more due to the human condition where one person screws over the rest out of personal greed) in practice it kinda falls apart.

EDIT

In a perfect world, where we all did whats best for the common good a socialist form of government is ideal. Everybody is equal, and we work for the betterment of society.

In a realistic world, where we all do whats best for us a capitalistic approach is better. It rewards those who seek to better themself (and in so doing, society as a whole).

sorry, but I don't find anything great about that. Not everyone is equal and I should decide whether or not I care for the betterment of society.

Why is it folks say "on paper socialism is great" or "on paper communism is great"? What law, manmade or of nature, says everyone is equal? There is not species of animal, insect or otherwise that everyone is equal, so why do humans try to impose this measure?

 

[frostedflakes]

I doubt many of the respondents support true socialism (or even know what it is). They're obviously referring to "socialist" policies that are more common in Europe and other developed nations.

 

[Zebo]

We've had Corporate Socialism for over 200 years.

Pro sports? Taxpayers build Stadiums, pay for upkeep and improvements, owners take profits.

Retailers/Fast Food? Workers cost $18/hr, they pay seven, taxpayers pick up the difference (public housing, transportation, food stamps, city clinic, county hospital). Owners take profits.

Farmers? They sell crops, sometimes, and cash tax payers checks.

Airlines? Taxpayers build and maintain airports, airlines fly off with profits.

Military contractors? On and off budget to the tune of 300-500 billion a year.

Bank BAILOUTS? HELLO!!! talking trillions.

Corporate Capitalist America's been on welfare for 200 years. Now the little guy wants his share of the socialist pie, and we jump up and down and turn purple? Gimme a break.

We used to have some decent socialist programs for the little guy such as homesteading. But those have been taken away. Now we just issue cash, require nothing in return, not an ownership society. I think this just keeps people poor, robs spirit, creates unemployable anti social people which you see every day in trailer parks and inner city in America.

 

[Titan]

"We are all equal" is total BS. Fairy Tale.

When no one is older than another one, no one is a different sex from another one, and no one wants to form their own team away from the main group, then maybe we can start talking about Socialism.

The simple natural fact of age is enough to put a monkey wrench into the works. As long as there's some old bastard doing what he wants because he's been here longer and has seniority, he won't agree to socialism.

You can make systems that are more fair than others, it's true. But don't tell me it's because we are all equal. That's just the marketing, not the product.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Well....

The *ideals* of socialism is great on paper, but once you face the reality of it (more due to the human condition where one person screws over the rest out of personal greed) in practice it kinda falls apart.

EDIT

In a perfect world, where we all did whats best for the common good a socialist form of government is ideal. Everybody is equal, and we work for the betterment of society.

In a realistic world, where we all do whats best for us a capitalistic approach is better. It rewards those who seek to better themself (and in so doing, society as a whole).

sorry, but I don't find anything great about that. Not everyone is equal and I should decide whether or not I care for the betterment of society.

Why is it folks say "on paper socialism is great" or "on paper communism is great"? What law, manmade or of nature, says everyone is equal? There is not species of animal, insect or otherwise that everyone is equal, so why do humans try to impose this measure?

you have a pretty ignorant view of what socialism is. not surprising, however.

Originally posted by: Titan
"We are all equal" is total BS. Fairy Tale.

When no one is older than another one, no one is a different sex from another one, and no one wants to form their own team away from the main group, then maybe we can start talking about Socialism.

The simple natural fact of age is enough to put a monkey wrench into the works. As long as there's some old bastard doing what he wants because he's been here longer and has seniority, he won't agree to socialism.

You can make systems that are more fair than others, it's true. But don't tell me it's because we are all equal. That's just the marketing, not the product.

look another guy who doesn't know what socialism is.


stop trying to to make egalitarian communism = authoritarian socialism = democratic socialism.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I doubt many of the respondents support true socialism (or even know what it is). They're obviously referring to "socialist" policies that are more common in Europe and other developed nations.

since you are so knowledgeable, define true socialism.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

Yeah, that and now we're feeling the effects of unfettered capitalism, the poll isn't much of a surprise.

There is that parody act again. Unfettered capitalism lmao. The United States most resembles a cronyism capitalism or a fascism.

 

[StageLeft]

As for the whole investor thing, they are in effect asking investors if they think they way in which they make their living is better than the alternative, where their job wouldn't exist. Color me shocked that they prefer existing over not existing.

I suppose it depends how they are defining investors. I don't make my living with it but would call myself one.

 

[Drako]

This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

 

[frostedflakes]

Government ownership of the means of production, right?

Higher taxes is not necessarily socialism. More regulation is not necessarily socialism. A lot of the stuff that Rush and his dittoheads screech about is not socialism. It's a good buzz word to get people worked up, though.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Genx87
Ill tell you my opinion. The fall of the Soviet Union may turn out to be the worst thing to happen to western capitalism.

People simply forget the horrors of socialism and let other rewrite history for them.

Yeah, that and now we're feeling the effects of unfettered capitalism, the poll isn't much of a surprise.

There is that parody act again. Unfettered capitalism lmao. The United States most resembles a cronyism capitalism or a fascism.

Yeah, i'm so sorry that the federal government forced AIG to create those wacky insurance products that's bringing doom and gloom to our economy.

Oh wait, AIG did that themselves

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Government ownership of the means of production, right?

Higher taxes is not necessarily socialism. More regulation is not necessarily socialism. A lot of the stuff that Rush and his dittoheads screech about is not socialism. It's a good buzz word to get people worked up, though.

I don't care what it is, the Government needs to get it's ass out all the Public Business and quit trying to control everything. Let the chips fall where they fall.

If I wanted the governemnt to run everything in my life I wouldn't be here.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
I think most of the problem is a lot of Americans have been told the word Socialism may as well be the F word. They really have no idea what it is, or the fact many things they take for granted in America are socialist ideas. And as others have pointed out already. You dont see people from Sweden, Germany, etc. leaving the countries in droves. They must be doing somethign right that the people like. I would love to have education paid for by taxes, so that everyone has the opportunity to go if the choose. We often bitch about the ghetto's etc in America and link it to uneducated people etc. This would be a step in the right direction to solve that.

Actually, educated profesionals are leaving Germany in droves. High unemployment means that the government is paying people to look for work abroad. We hired a couple German physicians last year who told me such.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.

The USSR had crushed germany before the united states had a boot on the continent.
Text
Text
Text
Text


if you aggregate the combined army/navy/airforce of the eu, its actually pretty damn big, albeit only about 1/2 the size of the us military. combined they have 7 carriers for instance; which is over 1/2 of all non-american carriers.

The point you are making is that Europe would have fell to communism if it were not for America. Great Britain still has military strength, the rest of Europe are nothing but pansies, naive in thinking evil is defeated by handing out flowers. :roll:

European Socialism has created an aging secular population with no care to fight for their way of life.

Yeah, we saw how effectively they handled Bosnia on their own...

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

i'm sure 40 years of propaganda and fud have nothing to do with that.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

i'm sure 40 years of propaganda and fud have nothing to do with that.

I'm sure wide-eyed college kids with leftist teachers have nothing to do with that either?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.

The past couple of years have been a constant reminder of how smart investors are.

Originally posted by: Drako
This report confirms one thing - most people get wiser as they got older.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% for capitalism, 33% for socialism.
Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive: 49% for capitalism, 26% for socialism.
Over 40 just 13% for socialism.

Here's another thought: generational change in viewpoint.

Most of those over 40 have a brain overflowing with US government propaganda about the horrors of socialism. They've lived through wars (both hot and cold) dealing with the topic. Those under 30 might not have.

Grow up :roll:

200+ years of capitalism has formed America into the world's greatest power, championing freedom and liberty to a world which otherwise would not be free - and you want to throw it all away because of a small hiccup?