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Lovely.

StageLeft

StageLeft

No Lifer
http://www.rasmussenreports.co..._better_than_socialism

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 20% disagree and say socialism is better. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are not sure which is better.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided.
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Do people read anything? Like, I mean the average Joe, what the hell are they spending their time doing?

Investors by a 5-to-1 margin choose capitalism. As for those who do not invest, 40% say capitalism is better while 25% prefer socialism.
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Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.
 
Well....

The *ideals* of socialism is great on paper, but once you face the reality of it (more due to the human condition where one person screws over the rest out of personal greed) in practice it kinda falls apart.

EDIT

In a perfect world, where we all did whats best for the common good a socialist form of government is ideal. Everybody is equal, and we work for the betterment of society.

In a realistic world, where we all do whats best for us a capitalistic approach is better. It rewards those who seek to better themself (and in so doing, society as a whole).
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Investors by a 5-to-1 margin choose capitalism. As for those who do not invest, 40% say capitalism is better while 25% prefer socialism.
Click to expand...
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.
Click to expand...

Uh, no, investors who disproportionately benefit from the so-called capitalist setup prefer it.

That's like saying fishermen prefer living near water.

A lot of the issue depends on what your priorities are for society, not to mention definining the terms. Want to get rid of your socialist police department and FDA?

Just as communism had its dogger adherents who still to this day say they prefer it (and even Stalin), so-called capitalism has plenty of people more dogged than informed.

Why is the discussion framed so badly as one or the other, instead of the useful topic about how to balance them, how to improve each of them?

For example, it's clear IMO to anyone who is reasonably informed on capitalism that it has inherent flaws concentrating wealth (towards monopoly) that result in poverty for most, result in a lack of 'beneficial free market competition' because control of markets (and politics) is more rewarded, it's clear that serious regulation of the market is needed to keep it working for the mutual good of the participants and society - regulation that's essential, but not 'socialism'. Where does that fit in the discussion?
 
and this is why we people are not pissed off at Obama and we are going to have more like him.

yes IF everything was perfect Socialism works. But we know this is not a perfect world. Socialism has failed time and time again. Pity so many have no idea.
 
Did the surveyor ask the respondents to define either capitalism or socialism? I bet less than 53% of Americans could explain either system and certainly not explain the mixed system we live under.
 
More people comming here to work from countries that have more socialist style policies/systems in place as well.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
and this is why we people are not pissed off at Obama and we are going to have more like him.

yes IF everything was perfect Socialism works. But we know this is not a perfect world. Socialism has failed time and time again. Pity so many have no idea.
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Yeah, but raising the top 2 tax brackets 4% back to where they were in the 90s does not socialism make.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
and this is why we people are not pissed off at Obama and we are going to have more like him.

yes IF everything was perfect Socialism works. But we know this is not a perfect world. Socialism has failed time and time again. Pity so many have no idea.
Click to expand...

Who was more socialist, Teddy Roosevelt or the leadership in the 1890's? FDR or Coolidge and Hoover? JFK/LBJ or Reagan/Bush? Under which of each did the economy work better?
 
Originally posted by: bozack
More people comming here to work from countries that have more socialist style policies/systems in place as well.
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Yes, that's the only relevant difference. Being the world's greatest power, with hundreds of military bases in dozens of countries, with decades of accumulating wealth - irrelevant.

Political freedoms and cultural differences - irrelevant.

How many Germans and French and Swedes are clamoring to leave their nations?
 
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.
 
neither totally 'free markets' or total socialism work particularly well in practice. A pragmatist takes the best that each ideology has to offer, which is what most counties have done.

the closest thing that i can think of to a pure dissipate-style free market economy would be Somalia.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
and this is why we people are not pissed off at Obama and we are going to have more like him.

yes IF everything was perfect Socialism works. But we know this is not a perfect world. Socialism has failed time and time again. Pity so many have no idea.
Click to expand...

all developed countries used socialist means to get there. without exception.

Originally posted by: ironwing
Did the surveyor ask the respondents to define either capitalism or socialism? I bet less than 53% of Americans could explain either system and certainly not explain the mixed system we live under.
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capitalism and socialism, as well as other similar concepts, have been so politicized that they really have no concrete meaning anymore. I've seen the soviet union pre-ww2 being refered to as practicing state capitalism, since on a certain basis, capitalism is simply a system were capital is accumulated to produce more goods.

Originally posted by: OCguy
This just in: 85% of Americans couldnt even tell you what the difference is.
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p&n probably isn't much better
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
http://www.rasmussenreports.co..._better_than_socialism

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 20% disagree and say socialism is better. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are not sure which is better.

Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided.
Click to expand...

Do people read anything? Like, I mean the average Joe, what the hell are they spending their time doing?

Investors by a 5-to-1 margin choose capitalism. As for those who do not invest, 40% say capitalism is better while 25% prefer socialism.
Click to expand...
Investors, i.e. people who actually have and make money and wealth and are more likely to be edumacated.
Click to expand...

First of all I sincerely doubt most Americans even know what socialism is. Hell, most of the people on this board, a board dedicated to politics, political systems, economics news, etc, don't know what socialism is. That's problem #1.

As for the whole investor thing, they are in effect asking investors if they think they way in which they make their living is better than the alternative, where their job wouldn't exist. Color me shocked that they prefer existing over not existing.
 
Originally posted by: Farang
It is a stupid question. Socialism as its practiced in first world countries is capitalism as we know it here in America, just with an expanded idea of what essential (read: government-provided) services are--namely healthcare and education. Considering these evil socialist countries like Norway and Sweden have the highest standard of living in the world, I'm inclined to support their system.
Click to expand...

Right! Norway and Sweden have efficient socialist governments capable of handling 300m citizens stretched across an entire continent and maintain a strong military strength to defend themselves. :roll:

European Socialism would have died to Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, and terrorism, if it were not for the strength of Capitalist America.

The _only_ reason why European socialism works is because we police the world for them.
 
Originally posted by: bozack
More people comming here to work from countries that have more socialist style policies/systems in place as well.
Click to expand...

i didn't know that we were recieving large inflows of people from western europe and japan? 😕
 
This reminds me of the other day when I was getting my car inspected. The place had the Sean Hannity (I know, I know... you don't have to say it) show on and he had people calling in. I believe the host started asking if people voted for Obama or not (pretty obvious why) and then asked questions regarding to citizen entitlement from the government going from things that some could agree to and then to items as crazy as free vehicles for transportation to and from work. I wasn't there long, but I believe ever caller was adamant about getting these sort of free perks, but they suddenly changed their tune when the host said either: "Who will pay for it?" , "Do you know who also said this stuff? Karl Marx" , or "That's socialism".

In other words, people like free handouts until it comes to actually realizing who foots the bill or some will bail when they hear the big bad 's' word (socialism). A lot of people are clueless (and I'm certainly no genius about everything that goes on), but they love the thought of a free lunch 😛.
 
Originally posted by: Aikouka
This reminds me of the other day when I was getting my car inspected. The place had the Sean Hannity (I know, I know... you don't have to say it) show on and he had people calling in. I believe the host started asking if people voted for Obama or not (pretty obvious why) and then asked questions regarding to citizen entitlement from the government going from things that some could agree to and then to items as crazy as free vehicles for transportation to and from work. I wasn't there long, but I believe ever caller was adamant about getting these sort of free perks, but they suddenly changed their tune when the host said either: "Who will pay for it?" , "Do you know who also said this stuff? Karl Marx" , or "That's socialism".

In other words, people like free handouts until it comes to actually realizing who foots the bill or some will bail when they hear the big bad 's' word (socialism). A lot of people are clueless (and I'm certainly no genius about everything that goes on), but they love the thought of a free lunch 😛.
Click to expand...

I think what your experience really showed you is that the word 'socialism' is a pejorative in American society due to our years of anticommunist rhetoric that has been thrown around. Ideas aren't bad because Karl Marx had them, they are good or bad on their own. If someone changes their mind on an idea simply because the label attached to the idea is changed, what does that say?
 
Originally posted by: Aikouka
This reminds me of the other day when I was getting my car inspected. The place had the Sean Hannity (I know, I know... you don't have to say it) show on and he had people calling in. I believe the host started asking if people voted for Obama or not (pretty obvious why) and then asked questions regarding to citizen entitlement from the government going from things that some could agree to and then to items as crazy as free vehicles for transportation to and from work. I wasn't there long, but I believe ever caller was adamant about getting these sort of free perks, but they suddenly changed their tune when the host said either: "Who will pay for it?" , "Do you know who also said this stuff? Karl Marx" , or "That's socialism".

In other words, people like free handouts until it comes to actually realizing who foots the bill or some will bail when they hear the big bad 's' word (socialism). A lot of people are clueless (and I'm certainly no genius about everything that goes on), but they love the thought of a free lunch 😛.
Click to expand...

Your post is ironic considering you admittedly work for a defense contractor.
 
I think most of the problem is a lot of Americans have been told the word Socialism may as well be the F word. They really have no idea what it is, or the fact many things they take for granted in America are socialist ideas. And as others have pointed out already. You dont see people from Sweden, Germany, etc. leaving the countries in droves. They must be doing somethign right that the people like. I would love to have education paid for by taxes, so that everyone has the opportunity to go if the choose. We often bitch about the ghetto's etc in America and link it to uneducated people etc. This would be a step in the right direction to solve that.
 
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