Lou Dobbs is 100% right

[umbrella39]

That is why I think big bills like health care should be a national vote not something just a few get to decide.

Why stop at "big bills". With this logic we should have put invading Iraq to a vote then...

 

[ProfJohn]

Obama is easily the most liberal President since at least FDR. His voting record as a Senator was one of the most liberal in congress. And his stances on issues so far as President certainly back up the view that he is a very liberal politician.

Also, one can not look at the make up of congress and proclaim that the American people are overwhelmingly in support of liberal Democrat policies because the Democrats control congress. If that were really true then the Democrats wouldn't be having such a hard time getting their policies through congress.

We are still a center right country, as polls continually show, and a large number of Democrats are themselves conservative compared to their Democratic leadership. People like Pelosi, Ried and even Obama would not be able to win election in a majority of house seats across the country.

 

[Modelworks]

You claimed that majority should decide, and I am showing how if majority had to decide, great things like emancipation would not have happened.

This country isn't majority rule for a reason.

The country was founded that way for good reason.

I guess you have an argument with the founding fathers. They could have chosen direct democracy...

Emancipation would have happened and did happen not because one person decided it was the right thing but because those that believed in the idea of that person made it happen.

The founding fathers could not have chosen direct democracy for several reasons. One , the idea had never been tried anywhere before, it wasn't even a concept invented at the time. They began their discussions based on what they were familiar with, monarchy , and how to improve it. Two, the general public were extremely illiterate at the time and could not understand concepts of things like budget and defense . Third , communication with masses of people would have been impractical at the time, it would have taken years to tell everyone what was going on and to get their input.

What is so wrong with something like a state taking a vote among its taxpayers as to whether a state passes a bill ? They are the ones paying for it, so shouldn't they decide if it is right for them ? When they vote someone into office is not the person they elect supposed to be a proxy for those voters ? How is it fair when the official does what those voters do not want ?

 

[Modelworks]

Why stop at "big bills". With this logic we should have put invading Iraq to a vote then...

I would agree with voting whether or not to enter war. Why not ? If I and my loved ones are to go to war and risk death , should I not have a say as to whether I think we should ?

 

[fskimospy]

Obama is easily the most liberal President since at least FDR. His voting record as a Senator was one of the most liberal in congress. And his stances on issues so far as President certainly back up the view that he is a very liberal politician.

Also, one can not look at the make up of congress and proclaim that the American people are overwhelmingly in support of liberal Democrat policies because the Democrats control congress. If that were really true then the Democrats wouldn't be having such a hard time getting their policies through congress.

We are still a center right country, as polls continually show, and a large number of Democrats are themselves conservative compared to their Democratic leadership. People like Pelosi, Ried and even Obama would not be able to win election in a majority of house seats across the country.

Oh Pro-Jo, still leading with your ideology and not your head. Obama DID win in a majority of House districts in 2008.

Not only that, but now Obama's changed from the 'most liberal in history' to the 'most liberal since FDR'. Keep on backtracking!

We are also 'center right' on a WORLD scale. If you look at where Obama rests on the world scale, guess what? I've got a dirty little secret for you: He's center right too. Oops!

 

[soulcougher73]

I completely disagree with Lou Dobbs. If the American people wanted governance that split the difference between the two parties, they wouldn't have given one party an overwhelming majority in the Congress along with the White House. As John Stewart correctly put it, this IS what the American people wanted. If they don't like the outcome, they can change it to something more balanced.

Also, the idea that moderation and bipartisanship are always good is really really wrong. There are many approaches to issues where the outcomes are mutually exclusive from one another. If you pick some middle of the road solution nothing gets done. Sometimes one side just has to take the ball and run with it.

This. When all is said and done, more is said then done.

 

[classy]

The problem with Lou Dobbs in that interview is he is talking out two sides of his mouth. He says the country needs to move away from the extreme right and left. Govern from the center he says. But it was Lou Dobbs who gave credibility to the extreme right time and time again. It was Lou Dobbs who constantly attacked illegal immigrants with outlandish claims giving voice to the extreme right on the issue. It was Lou Dobbs who ran out the extreme rights embarrasing "birthers" on TV over and over again. Even putting people on, who facts clearly proved they were lying about the issue. It was Lou Dobbs who lauded the extreme rights Obama waffle box trash. So all the bullshit Lou is slinging in that interview is just that, bullshit. Its amazing how a persons tune changes when they have been shown the door. Lou Dobbs couldn't see the center of any social, political, or economic situation if you showed it to him with a damn magnifying glass.

 

[shadow9d9]

Obama is easily the most liberal President since at least FDR. His voting record as a Senator was one of the most liberal in congress. And his stances on issues so far as President certainly back up the view that he is a very liberal politician.

Also, one can not look at the make up of congress and proclaim that the American people are overwhelmingly in support of liberal Democrat policies because the Democrats control congress. If that were really true then the Democrats wouldn't be having such a hard time getting their policies through congress.

We are still a center right country, as polls continually show, and a large number of Democrats are themselves conservative compared to their Democratic leadership. People like Pelosi, Ried and even Obama would not be able to win election in a majority of house seats across the country.

Kerry is the most liberal senator, blah blah.

Democrats in this country are center... nowhere close to left.

 

[shadow9d9]

Emancipation would have happened and did happen not because one person decided it was the right thing but because those that believed in the idea of that person made it happen.

The founding fathers could not have chosen direct democracy for several reasons. One , the idea had never been tried anywhere before, it wasn't even a concept invented at the time. They began their discussions based on what they were familiar with, monarchy , and how to improve it. Two, the general public were extremely illiterate at the time and could not understand concepts of things like budget and defense . Third , communication with masses of people would have been impractical at the time, it would have taken years to tell everyone what was going on and to get their input.

What is so wrong with something like a state taking a vote among its taxpayers as to whether a state passes a bill ? They are the ones paying for it, so shouldn't they decide if it is right for them ? When they vote someone into office is not the person they elect supposed to be a proxy for those voters ? How is it fair when the official does what those voters do not want ?

WHAT!? Direct democracy wasn't invented!?!?!? WHAT!??!?!?

Ever hear of Greece? Like 500 BC.... Pick up a history book please.

Is this some sort of joke? Yeah, it was only invented 2300 years earlier!

And yes, government intervention is what emancipated slaves.. and then they had to sometimes militarily force the south and the west to act like adults instead of inbreds... and then needed tons of legislation and protections put in place because of it.

 

[ProfJohn]

If Obama is not the most liberal President in history, then who is?

Clinton and Carter were both conservative southern Democrats as was Johnson.

Kennedy and FDR lived in very different times when the government was much smaller than it is today.

 

[shadow9d9]

If Obama is not the most liberal President in history, then who is?

Clinton and Carter were both conservative southern Democrats as was Johnson.

Kennedy and FDR lived in very different times when the government was much smaller than it is today.

I haven't seen really anything of a liberal sort. I think your perspective blinds you. Anything that isn't what you want is considered "liberal."

Health care reform is liberal?

Pushing through a stimulus and bailout that Bush started and pushed for is liberal?

Talking to allies is liberal?

 

[ProfJohn]

Giving government control of healthcare is liberal.

Having government take over 2 of the 3 big automakers is liberal.

Having the government tell banks how much they can pay employees is liberal.

 

[shadow9d9]

Giving government control of healthcare is liberal.

Having government take over 2 of the 3 big automakers is liberal.

Having the government tell banks how much they can pay employees is liberal.

The second 2 were started and pushed by Bush. Obama just finished the job.

Besides, the last is disingenuous at best. Should banks, after allowing a handful of people to trash their business at the expense of millions, be given interest free loans without consequence?

Regulation is necessary of an abusive industry. Government will not have "control" of anything. Does government "control" UPS or fedex because of the post office? Is the post office "liberal"?

 

[Jhhnn]

The big bankers, PJ, wouldn't be getting paid anything if it weren't for teh ebil gubmint- their banks would have gone titsup.

And the whole govt option healthcare plan really is a centrist position, considering that the rest of the first world has single payer or modified single payer systems, and have for decades.

Did you whine about teh ebil sochulists bailing out the S&L's? Probably not, because that was "different", because it was the sanctified RR and GHWB doing it...

 

[lupi]

When was the last time this many people were out of a job? Not his fault that Bush fucked the country.

yeah, it's not like all the campaigns are starting to gear up for the mid term elections. I imagine around mid 2011 then we can have an idea on some of the things he will start working on.

 

[First]

Polls keep showing there are more self-identified progressives/Dems/liberals combined than self-identified Republicans/conservatives/libertarians combined. Sorry, we're a center-left country and have been for many decades now, basically since FDR. You're watching too much Karl Rove and Brit Hume if you think we're center-right anymore. We're only center-right compared to most of the world, of course most of the world is probably too liberal for their own good anyway.

 

[ProfJohn]

First, I would like to see these polls please.

According to Gallup Americans are more 'conservative' this year than last. In a huge poll with more than 5000 respondents twice as many people call themselves conservative as call themselves liberal. 40% to 20% and for the first time since 2004 conservative out number moderates as well.

Also, conservatives have outnumbered liberals for over a decade now, probably several decades but the data doesn't go that far back.

Finally, you can't look at party identification to determine the ideological preference of voters. Southern Democrats are FAR more conservative than northern Democrats. One of the main reasons Democrats were able to retake control of congress was by going out and recruiting conservative southern Democrats and getting them to run for congress.

Heath Shuler is a perfect example of this, he is pro-life, anti-abortion, anti-illegal immigration and a fiscal conservative serving in a seat that had been held by a Republican for 16 years.

BTW Americanprogress.org did a study that added progress and libertarian to the mix and found that the country is 31 liberal/progress 31 moderate and 36 libertarian/conservative.

 

[ProfJohn]

double post via edit???

 

[jpeyton]

If someones behavior now in office is different from that of when they were campaigning and that behavior would have resulted in them never having been elected how are the peoples choices represented ?

The system rewards those who can lie the best. Not those that represent the voters.

Nonsense. If the public feels they lied, they can vote them out during the next election cycle.

The public felt lied to by the Republican party, and they got voted out in large numbers in 2008.

 

[ProfJohn]

Nonsense. If the public feels they lied, they can vote them out during the next election cycle.

The public felt lied to by the Republican party, and they got voted out in large numbers in 2008.

I am not sure I would use the term 'lie'

Republicans lost in 2006 due to the problems in Iraq.
They lost in 2008 due to the recession.

About the only 'lie' you can point to would be the claims about how easy the invasion of Iraq would be, otherwise Bush did exactly what he claimed he was going to do for most of his term. (You might claim that the Republicans lied about a balanced budget, but a balanced budget was never much of a political issue. And IF they did lose due to 'lying' about a balanced budget then the Democrats are in for an ass kicked next fall.)

 

[nobodyknows]

If Obama is not the most liberal President in history, then who is?

Clinton and Carter were both conservative southern Democrats as was Johnson.

Kennedy and FDR lived in very different times when the government was much smaller than it is today.

Yes, they lived in times when health care was affordable.

 

[nobodyknows]

And don't forget, Clinton tried to push healthcare reform through.

 

[Modelworks]

WHAT!? Direct democracy wasn't invented!?!?!? WHAT!??!?!?

No it was not a well known idea at the time. And for the other reasons I stated could not have been implemented.

And yes, government intervention is what emancipated slaves.. and then they had to sometimes militarily force the south and the west to act like adults instead of inbreds... and then needed tons of legislation and protections put in place because of it.

No it was not the government that stopped slavery. The government can pass all the laws it wants, but if the public is not behind those laws then that law will fail. I wonder what the world would look like today if instead of mandating freedom we changed it by showing people of why it needed to be changed. That is why things like affirmative action are such a disaster, you cannot force people to change, but you can show them a better way.

The current issue I have with the government is that they have forgotten that they serve the people, not the other way around. They think that passing laws and forcing ideas on people is the way to change things. They should slow down with all the spending and take the time to treat the people with respect vs the attitude of we know best. If you keep backing a dog into a corner, it will either lie down or it will attack. I don't think Americans are the lie down type.

 

[Modelworks]

Nonsense. If the public feels they lied, they can vote them out during the next election cycle.

The public felt lied to by the Republican party, and they got voted out in large numbers in 2008.

And how much damage is done during that time. I don't know about you but if I see someone taking a baseball bat to my car, I'm going to stop them then, not wait till the police arrive in 30 minutes.

 

[shadow9d9]

No it was not a well known idea at the time. And for the other reasons I stated could not have been implemented.



No it was not the government that stopped slavery. The government can pass all the laws it wants, but if the public is not behind those laws then that law will fail. I wonder what the world would look like today if instead of mandating freedom we changed it by showing people of why it needed to be changed. That is why things like affirmative action are such a disaster, you cannot force people to change, but you can show them a better way.

The current issue I have with the government is that they have forgotten that they serve the people, not the other way around. They think that passing laws and forcing ideas on people is the way to change things. They should slow down with all the spending and take the time to treat the people with respect vs the attitude of we know best. If you keep backing a dog into a corner, it will either lie down or it will attack. I don't think Americans are the lie down type.

Uh... you said "the idea had never been tried anywhere before, it wasn't even a concept invented at the time. ". Now, it was just "not widely known at the time"?

Just admit it, you made a mistake. Post evidence that it was "not widely known"..