Lost a job offer - need an opinon on this

[Strk]

The play was correct as he justified what he was worth. The only incorrect move was bringing up "standard of living" as that should only be used when relocating.

That is all that matters - what you are worth and what you think you are worth. If staying in the same area then expenses are immaterial as your out bar has already been set. As an employer, not even a factor.

I've used the "I've got bills to pay" angle as a means to say "You are insulting me". Treat it like buying a car - "c'mon! We've got to keep the lights on in this place! Now what is it going to take to get you in this car you love and make a sale today?"

How can someone be justified and still not have a job?

And for those saying it's just $2/hour, I'd like to know how many got what would amount to $2/hour raise.

But as others have said, your big mistake was doing it through email, but you said that one yourself. Just pick up the phone next time

 

[Kroze]

Damn i'm really lucky then with my job then... What kind of schooling do you have to do as an IT admin? Didn't know people have to work this hard for $22/hr.

 

[guyver01]

Didn't know people have to work this hard for $22/hr.

They dont. (at least i dont) ... just depends on the job and the company.

 

[SnOop005]

Damn i'm really lucky then with my job then... What kind of schooling do you have to do as an IT admin? Didn't know people have to work this hard for $22/hr.

Went to a Cal State University, BS degree, majored in Computer Information Systems.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Ok, here's what happened. I interviewed for a job (system admin)

If you could see to making these modest improvements to your offer, my performance will show you a striking return. I am prepared to commit all the way as part of your team. You have my assurance that you will not regret offering me this position.

Good thing you work with computers because you don't understand the English language. You just admitted that you'd half-ass it for $22 an hour. You want the job you better make it abundantly clear that you'll always do your best work.

 

[DrPizza]

A good company who really wanted you would have turned down your offer without giving the job away. It's probably better you didn't work for them... sounds like a pretty poorly run place.

I disagree. The way he worded it would have implied to me that if the company said "no" and he accepted the $22/hr, he wouldn't waste any time looking for a replacement job. The "result in a significant reduction in living standard" was way over the top. It gave them three choices - meet the salary demands, hire him for $22 and know that he would be looking for a better paying position from day 1 to meet his standard of living (whatever that is), or (best choice) hire the 2nd best candidate for the job who we're certain is more than adequate for the position.

Also, the way you stated the 6 years of experience in your email to justify the increase in salary... I'm not going to double check all of your figures, but generally, when you're looking at salaries & years of experience, you're talking about *full-time* experience at a more closely related level of competence. 1 year of working at a helpdesk really doesn't qualify you to say "I deserve more because of this year of experience." i.e. if you worked at a help desk for 15 years, went to school, got your degree quickly in 2 years, then applied for a job as a sys admin, I don't think anyone is going to consider you as having 17 years of experience towards a sys admin position.

But, most importantly, that last point didn't come to mind immediately. It only came to mind after I did a little editing to the first part of my response to you. And, I looked back at your email twice as I came up with that portion of my response. Had it been via phone, that probably wouldn't have happened. So again, the medium you chose shot yourself in the foot.

 

[thepd7]

I disagree. The way he worded it would have implied to me that if the company said "no" and he accepted the $22/hr, he wouldn't waste any time looking for a replacement job. The "result in a significant reduction in living standard" was way over the top. It gave them three choices - meet the salary demands, hire him for $22 and know that he would be looking for a better paying position from day 1 to meet his standard of living (whatever that is), or (best choice) hire the 2nd best candidate for the job who we're certain is more than adequate for the position.

Also, the way you stated the 6 years of experience in your email to justify the increase in salary... I'm not going to double check all of your figures, but generally, when you're looking at salaries & years of experience, you're talking about *full-time* experience at a more closely related level of competence. 1 year of working at a helpdesk really doesn't qualify you to say "I deserve more because of this year of experience." i.e. if you worked at a help desk for 15 years, went to school, got your degree quickly in 2 years, then applied for a job as a sys admin, I don't think anyone is going to consider you as having 17 years of experience towards a sys admin position.

But, most importantly, that last point didn't come to mind immediately. It only came to mind after I did a little editing to the first part of my response to you. And, I looked back at your email twice as I came up with that portion of my response. Had it been via phone, that probably wouldn't have happened. So again, the medium you chose shot yourself in the foot.

Absolutely, email is really bad for anything related to negotiation.

 

[Kroze]

Threads like this make me realized how hard it is out there and how good I have it in pay.

HS Diploma and make $26/hr

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And there in lies the problem.

Unless you are Manager/Director level or higher, (and no.. System Administrator isn't even close), most companies wont negotiate anything. Expecially in this market.

Maybe in this current market, but I've negotiated the last two positions I held before my current developer position. I got more money and a signing bonus on the first opportunity and on the second one, they couldn't agree to my initial salary demands but promised to meet them at the change of their fiscal year, which was five months from the time I started. The benefits were far better than the job I had, so I accepted and they kept their word and bumped me up to the level I wanted a few months later.

 

[rasczak]

Threads like this make me realized how hard it is out there and how good I have it in pay.

HS Diploma and make $26/hr

same here man. yet, i can't help but feel that once i get my degree, i'll be able to make more than what i'm getting now. are you thinking about getting your degree?

 

[purbeast0]

you were communicating about a possible new job, all via email?

that right there is the problem.

 

[darkxshade]

Hi SnOop005,

After much consideration, we would like to re-extend this offer to you. The previous offer at $22/hr as it turns out would result in a significant reduction in profit. As a compromise, we would be willing to offer you the new rate of fortify cent/hour. What say you?

Regards,

 

[waggy]

roughly $320 is going causea "significant reduction in living standard" ?

really? then why are you even thinking about that job? why would i hire you when it really looks as if you will be looking for another job just $2.50 more an hour? why should i waste my time?

 

[oddyager]

Maybe in this current market, but I've negotiated the last two positions I held before my current developer position. I got more money and a signing bonus on the first opportunity and on the second one, they couldn't agree to my initial salary demands but promised to meet them at the change of their fiscal year, which was five months from the time I started. The benefits were far better than the job I had, so I accepted and they kept their word and bumped me up to the level I wanted a few months later.

Same here. Salary negotiation can be done at all levels. Doesn't always work out to your benefit every time but there is no reason to shortchange yourself unless you are desperate for a job.

 

[oddyager]

roughly $320 is going causea "significant reduction in living standard" ?

really? then why are you even thinking about that job? why would i hire you when it really looks as if you will be looking for another job just $2.50 more an hour? why should i waste my time?

Biggest mistake was doing this over e-mail. Second mistake was wording it completely wrong.

 

[TwiceOver]

roughly $320 is going causea "significant reduction in living standard" ?

really? then why are you even thinking about that job? why would i hire you when it really looks as if you will be looking for another job just $2.50 more an hour? why should i waste my time?

Umm... $2/hr for a year is a lot more than $320.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Umm... $2/hr for a year is a lot more than $320.

Yeah, it is about $4K.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Same here. Salary negotiation can be done at all levels. Doesn't always work out to your benefit every time but there is no reason to shortchange yourself unless you are desperate for a job.

Exactly, it is all a game. A company will always come in lower than they intend to pay, hoping you'll accept. You should always try to get as much as you can initially, because it is hard telling when you might get the money you want.

 

[Tweak155]

I've always negotiated a higher pay in jobs I've accepted, albeit minimal increases.

My first job I was offered about $18 an hr. I countered saying I have bills to pay while incurring moving expenses, etc and that even a little extra would help out, and I directly requested $20 an hr. They said no problem.

I was promoted later down the road, company was offering $11k raise and I got it bumped to $13k saying I didn't think the raise justified the change in responsibilities, and even at this higher rate I'm hoping raises would reflect this even better. They agreed.

Recently I was emailed by a company I interviewed at 3 yrs ago, and I turned down their offer then. They asked me to interview and suggested a $70-75k range before I even flew out there. I told them it depends on benefits package, otherwise I'm looking at $80k+. When I got there I basically said I have a lot of things to consider about this move, I definitely like the job and at this point it is whether or not I can justify it with salary. The HR guy agreed and said thanks for letting him know. I left him my wife's resume and said it would be an easier decision if she didn't have to give up her job. She got an e-mail 2 days later for a phone interview.

It is all about how you present yourself and if you can actually justify what you're asking for. One thing you can absolutely never, never do is try to justify your higher wage with someone else's higher wage - which is exactly what you did. How so?

You stated research on OTHER people with "your" experience (no other person has your exact experience) are earning higher than the offer. Big no no. All you can do is say why you think YOU'RE worth more, not what the market or other people say. Sure, you can use that as research knowing other people make more, so why not ask for more, but presenting it that way was a mistake in my mind.


I'm still waiting to see if I get offered at this company, but I only asked for higher than what I wouldn't mind giving up. If I miss out on $75k it is no matter to me since I'll earn that out of home this year.

 

[child of wonder]

I've always negotiated a higher pay in jobs I've accepted, albeit minimal increases.

My first job I was offered about $18 an hr. I countered saying I have bills to pay while incurring moving expenses, etc and that even a little extra would help out, and I directly requested $20 an hr. They said no problem.

I was promoted later down the road, company was offering $11k raise and I got it bumped to $13k saying I didn't think the raise justified the change in responsibilities, and even at this higher rate I'm hoping raises would reflect this even better. They agreed.

Recently I was emailed by a company I interviewed at 3 yrs ago, and I turned down their offer then. They asked me to interview and suggested a $70-75k range before I even flew out there. I told them it depends on benefits package, otherwise I'm looking at $80k+. When I got there I basically said I have a lot of things to consider about this move, I definitely like the job and at this point it is whether or not I can justify it with salary. The HR guy agreed and said thanks for letting him know. I left him my wife's resume and said it would be an easier decision if she didn't have to give up her job. She got an e-mail 2 days later for a phone interview.

It is all about how you present yourself and if you can actually justify what you're asking for. One thing you can absolutely never, never do is try to justify your higher wage with someone else's higher wage - which is exactly what you did. How so?

You stated research on OTHER people with "your" experience (no other person has your exact experience) are earning higher than the offer. Big no no. All you can do is say why you think YOU'RE worth more, not what the market or other people say. Sure, you can use that as research knowing other people make more, so why not ask for more, but presenting it that way was a mistake in my mind.


I'm still waiting to see if I get offered at this company, but I only asked for higher than what I wouldn't mind giving up. If I miss out on $75k it is no matter to me since I'll earn that out of home this year.

Agreed.

If you approach the negotiating table confident and well informed as to your worth and the worth of the position itself, then you'll usually walk away with more money than initially offered.

If you approach the negotiating table like Oliver Twist ("please sir, may I have some more?") then you will be shot down and possibly overlooked.

Never forget, applying for jobs is just as much, if not more, about you interviewing and deciding to work for THEM as it is about them deciding to hire you.

 

[Mide]

Yeah you gambled and lost....simple as that.