Looks like The Titanic killed a few more people

[Paratus]

this is a deep cut





View attachment 82066

That’s cold.

 

[amenx]

Carbon Fiber Hull. No attachment points for hauling. The carbon fiber hull would probably tear apart from the stress.

Another area of potential trouble was that the large viewport was certified by its manufacturer to a depth of only 1300m. Aside from other red flags, esp electrical issues and loss of comms that previous passengers reported.

 

[Perknose]

• Stockton Rush, the chief executive of OceanGate, the company responsible for the submersible, was piloting the Titan. His wife, Wendy Rush, is a descendant of two first-class passengers who died when the Titanic sank in 1912.

This whole thing is just a bit eerie for me. My grandmother, Victorine Chaudanson, survived the Titanic. Her story is almost movie worthy. She was a maid/governess for a wealthy Philadelphia family, the Ryersons. As the ship was foundering, first class passengers were herded on deck. Mrs. Ryerson sent my grandmother down to the cabin to retrieve her jewels!

Stewards were going along, locking the first class cabins to prevent the hoi polloi from looting them. She heard the steward lock her door and starting screaming until he finally came back and let her out.

Topside, Mr. Ryerson, old school to the core, gave my grandmother his life jacket, and she got in the very last lifeboat to leave the Titanic, lifeboat #4. Mr. Ryerson stood with several other rich men of integrity, following the rubric "Women and children first" and went down with the ship. I literally wouldn't be here today if that good man hadn't had values!

You can't make this stuff up!

In the 1950s, Walter Lord wrote A Night to Remember about the sinking. It was made into a black and white movie. My folks and my grandmom, who then lived with us, were invited to the Philadelphia premier. Walter Lord was a blue blood. My grandmom worked for blue bloods as a governess. My guess is that one of his social register friends said, "You should talk to my maid." So, her story is in that book, and is the reason it's all over the internet.

It gets better. My Dad retired to St. Petersberg. He volunteered as a docent at the local museum, which is where the Titanic exhibit first began its tour, post the DiCaprio movie. They had some sort of faux black marble slab with all of the names of the passengers on it. My Dad noticed that his mother's name wasn't on it. He began a letter writing campaign to the exhibitors, one after the other, which took months and months, until he got my grandmom and 34 other domestics actual names added to that slab, because they had been listed thusly: Mr and Mrs Ryerson and maid. My Dad did this in the very last years of his life. Go Dad!

 

[pmv]

I've heard multiple times that the "women and children first" thing was far from the norm in maritime disasters. And that the Titanic case (which was an outlier for "civilized" behaviour) established it as a sort of commonly-believed myth, giving the impression the "rule" was far more widespread than it actually was. Quite often it was just everyone for themselves and the devil take the hindmost (sometimes the lifeboats would just be grabbed by the able-bodied men, or anyone who could arm themselves).

The case of the SS Arctic, in particular, played out _very_ differently

SS Arctic disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[thilanliyan]

All this tells me is that a LOT of so-called "smart guys" are ACTUALLY really freaking stupid.

Something tells me that if they could put an escape-hatch on a SPACE CAPSULE in the mid-1960's they could put one in that "play-school" sub if they chose to do so. (and that is the rub... those morons CHOSE this design!)

From what I've been reading going to the bottom of the ocean in that POS "submersible" was about as intelligent as Evil Knievel trying to jump the fountains at Caesars Palace on a Harley.

I don't know the specific design of this, but it's actually harder (structurally) to build a sub to survive the depths than it is to build a spacecraft for the vacuum of space. Structurally it's much harder in the deep see than in space.

Any "opening" they have is a failure point. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's not as "easy" as doing the same for a spacecraft.

 

[thilanliyan]

I just did more research last week on a carbon fork for my bike than probably any of those folks did about this company and their toy submersible

I'd be hesitant for anything carbon fiber on my bike unless I'm competing lol...CF just shatters instead of bends like most metal and then you're screwed. A co-worker of mine had a carbon fiber piece where the handle bars connect (sorry don't know the proper terms) which shattered when he went over a bump. Lost control, crashed, broken collar bone and a few other injuries. I'll take my heavy steel cruiser bike thanks

 

[MrSquished]

I'd be hesitant for anything carbon fiber on my bike unless I'm competing lol...CF just shatters instead of bends like most metal and then you're screwed. A co-worker of mine had a carbon fiber piece where the handle bars connect (sorry don't know the proper terms) which shattered when he went over a bump. Lost control, crashed, broken collar bone and a few other injuries. I'll take my heavy steel cruiser bike thanks

Yeah ask him where he got that carbon part from. Also carbon fiber does not shatter on bicycles. I mean maybe the cheap Chinese crap.

It's just not how it works with good carbon parts.

 

[pcgeek11]

ooo, good call. it has to have some sort of framed reinforcement, know...or does that just compromise the carbon fiber at those pressures? pushing against a frame like that?

anyway, makes sense to me, maybe sounds stupid. haha.

Designed for compression loading. That is why it is launched from the mother vessel on a floating platform slid off the rear and not lifted by a crane to place it in the water.

Launching the Alvin:

Launching the Oceangate Titanic:

 

[Captante]

Carbon-fiber IS much more prone to catastrophic failure then aluminum or steel in bike frames but the advantages are lighter weight then either plus a "softer" ride similar to steel.

Biggest negative to CF parts/frames is that even very minor damage is cause for replacement. Also make no mistake... even a "top-quality" CF fork WILL snap/shatter and send you flying FAR easier then metal will. (especially steel) They have come a long way from the days when $300+ CF forks would splinter hitting a pothole at random though!

 

[pcgeek11]

I don't know the specific design of this, but it's actually harder (structurally) to build a sub to survive the depths than it is to build a spacecraft for the vacuum of space. Structurally it's much harder in the deep see than in space.

Any "opening" they have is a failure point. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's not as "easy" as doing the same for a spacecraft.

On the ISS, flight rules require that a partial pressure of oxygen must be maintained between 2.82 - 3.44 psi. This would correlate to an oxygen concentration of approximately 21% in an ambient pressure of 14.7 psi.

Pressure in the ocean at 4000 Meters - The water pressure 12,500 feet below the surface at the site of the Titanic wreck is roughly 400 atmospheres or 6,000 PSI.

The reasons are obvious.
In space I would worry more about space junk traveling at high speed and hitting / passing through the hull.

 

[Muadib]

It’s not the same!!! If things go wrong on the trip to Mars, death is swift. The poor people on this sub have been waiting to die for days.

 

[Paratus]

On the ISS, flight rules require that a partial pressure of oxygen must be maintained between 2.82 - 3.44 psi. This would correlate to an oxygen concentration of approximately 21% in an ambient pressure of 14.7 psi.

Pressure in the ocean at 4000 Meters - The water pressure 12,500 feet below the surface at the site of the Titanic wreck is roughly 400 atmospheres or 6,000 PSI.

The reasons are obvious.
In space I would worry more about space just traveling at high speed and hitting the hull.

The ISS does maintain a normal oxygen nitrogen atmosphere around 14.7psi.

I’d say structural design requirements for orbital conditions are more benign than at the sea floor near the Titanic but the design requirements for a space vehicle to survive ascent and entry are more difficult than for the submersible.

 

[sdifox]

It’s not the same!!! If things go wrong on the trip to Mars, death is swift. The poor people on this sub have been waiting to die for days.

we don't know that. it could have imploded. given the cavalier approach to its build, that is the most likely outcome.

 

[Paratus]

It’s not the same!!! If things go wrong on the trip to Mars, death is swift. The poor people on this sub have been waiting to die for days.

Depends on the mission and failure mode. Take the upcoming Artemis missions to the moon. If you take a micrometeorite strike to the Orion service module and leak out all your prop you’ll be stuck in lunar orbit until you die a couple of weeks later.

 

[pcgeek11]

It’s not the same!!! If things go wrong on the trip to Mars, death is swift. The poor people on this sub have been waiting to die for days.

Well in all honesty we don't know they didn't suffer a massive hull failure and were dead in a fraction of a second. If they did they probably didn't even have time to say "Oh Shit".

The same goes for a space mission. As an example; It could have a issue with life support and they could also linger for days waiting to die.

 

[skyking]

it does not need to be a massive hull failure. It would just as likely to spring a leak. it would take a while to fill with water and pressure but the result is the same, but no big bang to hear on the hydrophones.

 

[Pens1566]

it does not need to be a massive hull failure. It would just as likely to spring a leak. it would take a while to fill with water and pressure but the result is the same, but no big bang to hear on the hydrophones.

I'm no expert, but with the craft we're talking about and the depth/pressure involved, any hull compromise is likely to be almost instantly catastrophic.

 

[Captante]

it does not need to be a massive hull failure. It would just as likely to spring a leak. it would take a while to fill with water and pressure but the result is the same, but no big bang to hear on the hydrophones.

Depending on depth even a small leak could potentially fill the interior of the sub in a serious hurry even if the overall strength of the sub wasn't compromised.

However from what I know about carbon fiber, any even "small" defect would very likely cause immediate and catastrophic failure of the entire structure.

THIS (among other things) is why the designers of the Titan are in fact irresponsible morons.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Wait have we made it this far into the thread without pointing out that the name of the sub company already follows scandal naming conventions?

 

[Captante]

Wait have we made it this far into the thread without pointing out that the name of the sub company already follows scandal naming conventions?

Apparently so? I'm deeply ashamed!

 

[theeedude]

We need a report from this guy.

 

[Captante]

Crazy thing is that if the sub ended up still at substantial depth BUT unable to continue to ascend it could be literally be anywhere deep-water currents might take it by now.

Picturing this is giving me a bit of the same feeling I had the first time I heard David Bowies "Space Odyssey".

 

[UNCjigga]

Watching that show on the Alvin, I have 2 thoughts:

1) I’m assuming that sub is still in the middle of being upgraded and is unable to join the search?

2) Damn, they’ve been perfecting that sub design since the 60s and done 100s of dives???? Did OceanGate make any effort to learn from/copy that designer is it still a naval secret???

 

[ElFenix]

Crazy thing is that if the sub ended up still at substantial depth BUT unable to continue to ascend it could be literally be anywhere deep-water currents might take it by now.

Picturing this is giving me a bit of the same feeling I had the first time I heard David Bowies "Space Odyssey".

this thing is only ever being found if it's sitting right next to the titanic.

 

[Pens1566]

this thing is only ever being found if it's sitting right next to the titanic.

And even then, it's likely to be about the size of a trash can. So, good luck.