Looks like PC gaming will survive after all

[IndyColtsFan]

You also get more for your dollar. PC games get more free updates, and they also get mods. With many games I spend more time playing the mods than the actual game. I've filled my hard drives with 100's of gigabytes of free content. Enjoy paying for horse armor on a console.

100% agree on this point, but in fairness, certain genres of PC games (MMOs) are moving to a "store" model where players can buy in-game items for real money. I'm not sure I like that trend.

Games also last longer. I can play 20 year old games that I already have on my current PC. How many 20 year old games can you plug into your current console?

True, and a point you forgot to mention is that you can also play many 20 year-old console games on a PC via an emulator.

 

[Eckstein]

urgs - from thread

 

[smackababy]

Zelda is pathetic compared to Baldurs Gate.

It's like Pokemon compared to Lord of the Rings.

Just because all the kiddies go gaga over it, doesn't mean the grownups actually care.

I know right? No grownups care about Zelda... Seriously? Legend of Zelda series has sold almost 60million copies, and trust me, it wasn't all kids. But that's okay, like someone else pointed out the modern Baldur's Gate would be Dragon Age, and it was released for the consoles as well. Nice try though.

 

[evident]

It doesn't change the fact that the age of the PC exclusive is dead.

starcraft 2 will rule every other computer game for the next few years. followed by diablo. no need to worry about this

 

[MJinZ]

starcraft 2 will rule every other computer game for the next few years. followed by diablo. no need to worry about this

True.

 

[mmntech]

Really why can't consoles have both? It's not like microsoft and sony are brushing aside traditional developers to make room for the new casual devs -- rather, they're simply expanding their markets.

You might end up seeing more marketing not oriented towards hardcore gamers.. but that doesn't change the fact that traditional games have been the money makers up to this point -- and since they do bring in money, they'll still be made.

This. It's not as if PC doesn't have a swath of bad casual titles. Farmville speaks for itself.

The casual gamers have been a huge untapped market up until now.

 

[quadomatic]

My RAM alone cost more than your whole system.

I don't think you are representative of what most people consider "gaming PCs".

Laptops would cream your system at this point.

Only if you spent a good deal of money. A 9600GSO was pretty damn fast. But yeah, I never said the system wasn't outdated overall.

The point is that you don't have to spend a whole lot of money to play games at very high settings. What many PC gamers consider the requirement for a gaming PC is way past overkill. A lot of people who could be PC gamers end up shying away from the platform for fear of initial cost, but those fears are largely unfounded if you can build your own computer, and have the know-how to pick parts that give the good enough performance for the lowest price.

You end up getting even further if you're capable of overclocking or unlocking cores, but that's of course not within everyone's reach.

Also, that's not my current system Upgraded to quad core a few months ago (check my sig), though the video card is still the same (sorta).

 

[Dumac]

Because you're a troll looking for more attention.

Nothing you say is worth taking seriously.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Chaotic42]

DCS Blackshark isn't even really a game. It isn't meant to be played for fun, but rather for study and learning purposes. This applies for a lot of simulation games as well.

I'm sorry, what? Everyone who bought that game bought it to study?

 

[mindcycle]

Wow, I just read the article and it's rather depressing. Both MS and Sony have these blatant rip offs of the Wii, only it's 4 years too late now.

The MS sports title is the absolute worst though. I don't even own a Wii, yet i'm completely over Wii sports having played it at fiend's houses the few times I did.

The whole thing is just sad really..

 

[ClipSet]

Its all about the quality of games not quantity, for gamers. Each platform have their share of quality games. Just play them on the system you prefer. Big budget gaming is like big budget movie making.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I haven't read anything but the OP, but it's among the most retarded posts of the week. At the same time MS announced these titles they also announced a new Halo game and a new Gears of War game. Get your head out of your ass.

By the way, I've always been critical of the pathetic "sky is falling" attitude of PC gamers and the PC gaming industry continues to thrive despite their crybaby baaaaaaawwww-ing.

 

[Chaotic42]

I haven't read anything but the OP, but it's among the most retarded posts of the week. At the same time MS announced these titles they also announced a new Halo game and a new Gears of War game. Get your head out of your ass.

By the way, I've always been critical of the pathetic "sky is falling" attitude of PC gamers and the PC gaming industry continues to thrive despite their crybaby baaaaaaawwww-ing.

Like music, painting, film, literature, and every other artistic medium, gaming on the PC will never die. It might change, it might go underground, it might get "better" or "worse", but as long as it is physically possible to write a game for the PC, there will be PC gaming.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

wait when you guys say hardcore you mean those awesome hentai games where you steal girls panties and stuff right?

 

[quadomatic]

At the same time MS announced these titles they also announced a new Halo game and a new Gears of War game. Get your head out of your ass.

It's not like Nintendo didn't announce games that would appear to their original supporters. Metroid Prime 3 had been touted pretty heavily...actually, most of the crap didn't show up until at least a year down the road.

My point (which unfortunately I didn't make in the original post) is that now that MS and Sony have given developers a venue for making shovelware, which costs very little to produce and can be made quickly, the quality of games on these systems will decline dramatically.

The only stuff that's even been announced for Kinect thus far is shovelware!

Sure, you'll see another Halo and GoW, but I'm not sure whether there will be much after that.

wait when you guys say hardcore you mean those awesome hentai games where you steal girls panties and stuff right?

And that's why I've been reluctant to use the term hardcore...

 

[Dumac]

For every "hardcore" console game you name there are 10 more "hardcore" pc games....

Really, you can?

Name 10 dungeon crawler RPGs more hardcore than Etrian Odyssey (40 if you count sequels)

Add another 10 for Dark Spire.

Name 10 action RPGs more hardcore (or just generally better) than Demon's Souls.

Contra 4?
Ninja Gaiden?
Bayonetta?
God of War?
God Hand?
Monster Hunter?

Since the PC is just full of super duper hardcore titles, why don't you go name at least 100. I'm talking recent titles - don't go digging decades back.

Also don't try to pass off every shooter as hardcore, Crysis due to its shiny paint, or Oblivion due to its mod-ability.

 

[Dumac]

It's not like Nintendo didn't announce games that would appear to their original supporters. Metroid Prime 3 had been touted pretty heavily...actually, most of the crap didn't show up until at least a year down the road.

My point (which unfortunately I didn't make in the original post) is that now that MS and Sony have given developers a venue for making shovelware, which costs very little to produce and can be made quickly, the quality of games on these systems will decline dramatically.

The only stuff that's even been announced for Kinect thus far is shovelware!

Sure, you'll see another Halo and GoW, but I'm not sure whether there will be much after that.

And that's why I've been reluctant to use the term hardcore...

You act as if shitty shovelware made by shitty developers somehow sucks all the decent titles made by knowledgable developers into oblivion.

It isn't like good developers are suddenly going to become retarded and make Party Babyz.

Some of the highest quality titles (and most innovative) have been on the Wii. The 360 is the system that offers rehashes of rehashes of rehashes.

 

[fatpat268]

And that's why I've been reluctant to use the term hardcore...

Hehe.

But yea, I hate the term "hardcore" gamer... or even worse "core" gamer.

10 years ago, hardcore gamers were the ones who spent way too much freaking time playing games. They probably lived in their parents basement and shower once a week. They treated it as a hobby (lol).

Casual gamers back then were gamers who enjoyed video games, but never looked at it like it was a hobby. Games were entertainment and weren't to be taken too seriously.

Nowadays...

Hardcore gamer: Likes halo, COD, gears, killzone, (maybe) madden, etc exclusively.
Casual gamer: likes popcap games, wii sports, farmville, whatever shovelware that comes on the DS and Wii, etc.

Under the old definition, I'd define myself a casual gamer. Today's definition? Beats me.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Hardcore gamer: Likes halo, COD, gears, killzone, (maybe) madden, etc exclusively.
Casual gamer: likes popcap games, wii sports, farmville, whatever shovelware that comes on the DS and Wii, etc.

Under the old definition, I'd define myself a casual gamer. Today's definition? Beats me.

What do you call someone who just likes to play games for fun? I played Dragon age and CoD and I also played Bob Came in Pieces and World of Goo. These labels are retarded and anyone who takes pride in being a "hardcore gamer" needs to get some sun.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

Halo is a great example. Halo PC was fun, Halo Xbox was shit.

Also, Marathon > Halo.

 

[HomerX]

Really, you can?

Name 10 dungeon crawler RPGs more hardcore than Etrian Odyssey (40 if you count sequels)

Add another 10 for Dark Spire.

Name 10 action RPGs more hardcore (or just generally better) than Demon's Souls.

Contra 4?
Ninja Gaiden?
Bayonetta?
God of War?
God Hand?
Monster Hunter?

Probably you should start with explaining what "hardcore" means for you...

What is the "hardcore" aspect of those action rpgs? Especially action rpgs are hardly "hardcore" in any way, at least for my understanding of "hardcore"...

you know that "hardcore" isn't necessary the same as good?
MoO3 is one of the most "hardcore" TBS Games i have ever seen... but its less complex predecessor MoO2 is still the better game for most people...

Your Etrian Odyssey for example reduces itself to dungeon crawling... what is your hardcore part of the game? painting your own map? The Wizardry series of the PC seems to be ancestor of this game...

Since the PC is just full of super duper hardcore titles, why don't you go name at least 100. I'm talking recent titles - don't go digging decades back.

Thats one of the reasons a lot of PC Gamers are crying: There are more and more "casual games" nowadays because they sell better...

If someone likes "hardcore" games, it is irrelevant how old the game is... "hardcore" has nothing to do with up to date graphics...

 

[Dumac]

Probably you should start with explaining what "hardcore" means for you...

"hardcore" is a watered down term that means practically nothing today, but I try to think of a hardcore game as a difficult game that requires

1. Skill
and/or
2. Time

What is the "hardcore" aspect of those action rpgs? Especially action rpgs are hardly "hardcore" in any way, at least for my understanding of "hardcore"...

Well, the hardcore part aspect would be that they are amongst the toughest games I have played? An unforgiving action RPGs with no pausing, intricate fighting mechanics, deep leveling system, persistant world, killing NPCs, sidequests, moral choices, lose all progress when you die, guaranteed to die 50 times, can be invaded by other players at any moment's notice? Sounds "hardcore" to me, and innovative. Makes PC games seem like casual rehashes to me...

you know that "hardcore" isn't necessary the same as good?
MoO3 is one of the most "hardcore" TBS Games i have ever seen... but its less complex predecessor MoO2 is still the better game for most people...

This example is meaningless to me due to the date of the title. It makes the argument irrelevant.

Your Etrian Odyssey for example reduces itself to dungeon crawling... what is your hardcore part of the game? painting your own map? The Wizardry series of the PC seems to be ancestor of this game...

Etrian Odyssey is hardcore in that it doesn't hold your hand along the way and that most gamers would die repeatedly without outside assistance. It is too difficult and overwhelming for the average gamer.

Again, with your Wizardry reference, stop touting games from a decade ago as they have no current relevance. Where is the CURRENT Wizardry?

Thats one of the reasons a lot of PC Gamers are crying: There are more and more "casual games" nowadays because they sell better...

Again, how does this prove that PC gamers are more hardcore than console gamers? You think console gamers don't cry about the casualization of titles?

Here's the arguemnt so far

PC fan: PC gaming is more hardcore than console gaming

Normal Person: I don't know, man. I don't discrimate against platforms, and I'd say that there are equally hardcore titles on consoles.

PC fan: we-well...thats because you guys and your casual games!

Normal Person: ....you guys have casual games too. Peggle was on PC first. Stop outsourcing your casual games.

PC fan: ...shut up noob!

If someone likes "hardcore" games, it is irrelevant how old the game is...

But it is relevant to this discussion. You can't refute a DS title by saying "oh well there was a PC title was sort of similar about ten years ago". The DS didn't even exist ten years ago, and such an old game has little relevance to current gaming trends and the current gaming community.

"hardcore" has nothing to do with up to date graphics...

I agree. However, some PC gamers don't.

Then there's graphics. The consoles have to run the best looking games at under 720p. Consoles by comparison are still low definition, slow, and horrible looking compared to what can be done on the PC.

All I want to know is, where are all these super hardcore PC titles that are so popular with the super hardcore PC gamers? I want to see a title so ridiculously "hardcore" (whatever that means) that the thought of playing it on a console makes my head explode.

And god damn it if one of you mentions a game from the last millennium, I will....well nothing but be really upset.

 

[Raduque]

Personally, I just go where the games are. PC & Consoles both co-exist in my household... holding hands under the stars... or something. :awe:

This, for the god damned motherfucking ultra win. Platform elitests who hate everything that's not their specific platform don't deserve to game at all.

I'm sorry, what? Everyone who bought that game bought it to study?

The way I understand it, his description is comparable to highly technical service manuals. Sure there's people out there who read them for fun and entertainment, but these types of books aren't DESIGNED to be read for fun and entertainment.

 

[HomerX]

"hardcore" is a watered down term that means practically nothing today, but I try to think of a hardcore game as a difficult game that requires

1. Skill
and/or
2. Time

That isn't my definition for hardcore... In nearly every Game you need "Skill" in order to be good, especially in Multiplayer... Even in the most trivial Arcade Racer you need "Skill" in order to beat other people in Multiplayer...
A lot of "Hardcore" Games Require Skill but a game that requires Skill isn't automatically a hardcore Game...

The Same goes for time.. hardcore Games typically consume a lot of time in order to master them but you can also sink a lot of time in a trivial casualgame that is simply extremely difficult.

For me, a hardcore Game is a Game that reaches the borders of being a game.. Where detail, realism, complexity etc is more important then "having fun"
For a Strategy game this means that instead of a nice UI you look at excel type tables and you spend more time crunching numbers outside of the game then "playing".
Most of these "hardcore" Games live by active modding communities! (one of the biggest drawbacks of console gamig is the lack of modding!)

that doesn't mean that these games are "good" for most people or that PC Gaming should always be that way...

Is Starcraft or Counterstrike a hardcore game?
Both are Played extremly competitive and the Game mechanics are analysed very detailed... The Games by itself aren't even that hardcore.. they are fun for the most people and the Game mechanics aren't very complex.
But The high lvl of competition and the required skill in order to be one of the top players made these Games kind of "hardcore"

So its very hard to find a commom ground when debating "hardcore" Games...

Again, with your Wizardry reference, stop touting games from a decade ago as they have no current relevance. Where is the CURRENT Wizardry?

Why should they have no relevance? They can still be played... and the look of some of these old games might be very competitive compared to a nintendo DS game..

Again, how does this prove that PC gamers are more hardcore than console gamers?

PC Gamers aren't necessary more hardcore than console gamers... But a PC Gamer has generally more ways to make/play a game as hardcore as possible (mods, community, turnaments, special hardware etc)!

 

[quadomatic]

You act as if shitty shovelware made by shitty developers somehow sucks all the decent titles made by knowledgable developers into oblivion.

It isn't like good developers are suddenly going to become retarded and make Party Babyz.

Some of the highest quality titles (and most innovative) have been on the Wii. The 360 is the system that offers rehashes of rehashes of rehashes.

The shovelware takes away from the ability of good developers to get their games made and published. What publisher will fund the development of a game that takes money to produce, when they can just throw out shovelware instead?