Looking to get into pc gaming

[Sleepingforest]

Computers do this cool thing where stuff gets cheaper and cheaper as it improves--HDD and RAM prices are actually really high right now due to a flood in Thailand and mean retail places (I'm pretty sure that they were selling RAM at a loss before). Now they've settled around 1TB for $75 and 8GB RAM for $50--if you don't get it packaged with a motherboard.

The XT on the graphics card denotes it as being a higher level part--thje 7870 XT uses what's basically a 79XX base that is modified.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Also what are the advantages of the i5 over something like the amd fx-8350?

 

[Eureka]

What does the xt on the graphics card denote? Also I have no idea where you are getting that price for that card. Ram and hard drive prices have dropped a huge amount since last time I was going to do a build. Ram was 25 per gig and I got a 500gb for like 150 when circuit city was going out of business. It's an external but I still have it and it still works.

My bad, it's $240, and I meant the Powercolor 7870 Myst: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131484

It's hit $205 as a low in the last 2 months. The Sapphire 7870 XT and Powercolor 7870 Myst aren't 7870s in the typical sense... they're castrated 7950s, which are much better performing cards than the 7870s. It's basically the best mid-range card at the moment for price. They really should've been named something like 7930, but in their infinite wisdom, AMD decided to reuse the 7870 name.

You should be able to find or beat most of my prices if you wait a bit and shop around. I'm going off the top of my head but I've seen all these prices quite often.

If you want to go cheaper, we can list out cheaper parts, but for around $800-1000, this a heavy hitting machine.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Computers do this cool thing where stuff gets cheaper and cheaper as it improves--HDD and RAM prices are actually really high right now due to a flood in Thailand and mean retail places (I'm pretty sure that they were selling RAM at a loss before). Now they've settled around 1TB for $75 and 8GB RAM for $50--if you don't get it packaged with a motherboard.

The XT on the graphics card denotes it as being a higher level part--thje 7870 XT uses what's basically a 79XX base that is modified.

ah ok so it's kind of like a .5 or a half step between one model and the next.

 

[Eureka]

Also what are the advantages of the i5 over something like the amd fx-8350?

For gaming, everything. Faster IPC, which means each core does more work than an AMD core. In games, you're still limited by single-core performance, so you want the fastest core. The extra cores can do more work, but are still limited by the primary thread. i5 is also more power efficient and overclocks better. In terms of a gaming machine, you do not want an AMD right now if you can afford an i5.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

My bad, it's $240, and I meant the Powercolor 7870 Myst: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131484

It's hit $205 as a low in the last 2 months. The Sapphire 7870 XT and Powercolor 7870 Myst aren't 7870s in the typical sense... they're castrated 7950s, which are much better performing cards than the 7870s. It's basically the best mid-range card at the moment for price. They really should've been named something like 7930, but in their infinite wisdom, AMD decided to reuse the 7870 name.

You should be able to find or beat most of my prices if you wait a bit and shop around. I'm going off the top of my head but I've seen all these prices quite often.

If you want to go cheaper, we can list out cheaper parts, but for around $800-1000, this a heavy hitting machine.

I understand. No I think this build is fine, if I keep changing parts around it makes it harder to try and find deals on them.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Actually, it's easier to find good deals if you don't lock into specific parts.

For example, a 660ti is normally around $300. If I looked around only for a specific 660ti, I could only find deals on that 660ti--there are deals going around all the time on a variety of different models. Even if I broadened my search to include all 660tis, I would have missed out on the fabulous deal a few days/weeks ago on a $310 670.

Basically, lock into a price, not a product.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

For gaming, everything. Faster IPC, which means each core does more work than an AMD core. In games, you're still limited by single-core performance, so you want the fastest core. The extra cores can do more work, but are still limited by the primary thread. i5 is also more power efficient and overclocks better. In terms of a gaming machine, you do not want an AMD right now if you can afford an i5.

So basically, for gaming, amd seems like it has quite a bit of power, but it isn't optimized to it's full potential due to it's architecture?

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Actually, it's easier to find good deals if you don't lock into specific parts.

For example, a 660ti is normally around $300. If I looked around only for a specific 660ti, I could only find deals on that 660ti--there are deals going around all the time on a variety of different models. Even if I broadened my search to include all 660tis, I would have missed out on the fabulous deal a few days/weeks ago on a $310 670.

Basically, lock into a price, not a product.

That's a bit counter intuitive..:hmm:

 

[Sleepingforest]

It's not if you think about it. If you scour the internet for a GPU around $250 for example, normally all you'll see is overpriced 7870s, mostly worthwhile 7870XTs, and overpriced 660s. However, you might also see a 660ti or 7950 going on a steep sale.

It's about deciding how much you can spend on each part, and then looking for sales.

Alternatively, you could pick a general level of hardware to follow. This is like looking at all 7970s and 670s (two of the very high end graphics cards) and picking the cheapest one. This also works. The only thing you want to avoid doing is hoping one particular model of one part will go on sale.

 

[UaVaj]

Also what are the advantages of the i5 over something like the amd fx-8350?

given the current games now a day. i5-3570k will make the fx8350 cry like a little baby. as for i7-3770k - it is a hair above the i5. unnecessary unless you need HT or just want i7 bragging rights.

see the crysis 3 cpu benchmark. a stock i5 will out run an overclock fx8350.

fx8350 oc to 4.7ghz (33fps) is still way behind a 3570k/3770k oc to 4.5ghz (45fps) when crysis demand cpu utilization. even a stock 3570k 3.4ghz (41fps) is significantly faster than a oc'ed fx8350 (33fps). party over.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

It's not if you think about it. If you scour the internet for a GPU around $250 for example, normally all you'll see is overpriced 7870s, mostly worthwhile 7870XTs, and overpriced 660s. However, you might also see a 660ti or 7950 going on a steep sale.

It's about deciding how much you can spend on each part, and then looking for sales.

Alternatively, you could pick a general level of hardware to follow. This is like looking at all 7970s and 670s (two of the very high end graphics cards) and picking the cheapest one. This also works. The only thing you want to avoid doing is hoping one particular model of one part will go on sale.

I understood it as you were suggesting that something just as good or better could come out in that price range. I've priced some other builds and in 4-5 months a part had dropped as much as 30 dollars from the original price posted. I'm guessing this might be the case with the 7870 until the xts came out.

 

[UaVaj]

The only two games I've played with 3d graphics on the pc are doom 2 and counterstrike. The rest were all nes era sidescrollers or star and warcraft. It's funny because I think the graphics look pretty decent in that video but the first wave of games look like crap compared to the much later waves.

once you get a taste of the eye candy a pc can deliver. you will never go back.

that ps4 video was pathetic. then again it is a ps4.

truth to be said
if you do not know what you are missing. chances are you will not miss it.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

given the current games now a day. i5-3570k will make the fx8350 cry like a little baby. as for i7-3770k - it is a hair above the i5. unnecessary unless you need HT or just want i7 bragging rights.

see the crysis 3 cpu benchmark. a stock i5 will out run an overclock fx8350.

fx8350 oc to 4.7ghz (33fps) is still way behind a 3570k/3770k oc to 4.5ghz (45fps) when crysis demand cpu utilization. even a stock 3570k 3.4ghz (41fps) is significantly faster than a oc'ed fx8350 (33fps). party over.

I understood all of that except what HT stands for.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

once you get a taste of the eye candy a pc can deliver. you will never go back.

that ps4 video was pathetic. then again it is a ps4.

truth to be said
if you do not know what you are missing. chances are you will not miss it.

haha yeah. You are talking to a guy that just spent 48 hours out of the last month playing final fantasy 7. By today's standards it looked like garbage, but it's still a game that is as fun to play back then as it is now. Of course people's opinions may very.

 

[DSF]

It stands for Hyperthreading, which has the potential to increase the amount of work a processor can handle by having each core doing 2 things at once. However, applications have to be specifically written to take advantage of it, and games currently are not, at least not in any meaningful way.

That's not likely to change significantly within the next couple years. It could down the line (and almost certainly will someday as computing heads more and more towards a multi-core orientation) but probably not within the useful life of a gaming computer.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

It stands for Hyperthreading, which has the potential to increase the amount of work a processor can handle by having each core doing 2 things at once. However, applications have to be specifically written to take advantage of it, and games currently are not, at least not in any meaningful way.

That's not likely to change significantly within the next couple years. It could down the line (and almost certainly will someday as computing heads more and more towards a multi-core orientation) but probably not within the useful life of a gaming computer.

What is the average life of a gaming computer? 5-7 years?

 

[DSF]

What is the average life of a gaming computer? 5-7 years?

Well that really depends. If you don't care about turning the settings up, and/or you don't tend to play the newest releases, 5-7 years is possible. In that case though you wouldn't really be interested in hyperthreading anyway.

More realistically a computer that's built to play 3D games will last for a couple years before a GPU upgrade, and then a couple more after that. By year three or four it's really starting to show its age if the user still wants to keep up with new games at high settings.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Well that really depends. If you don't care about turning the settings up, and/or you don't tend to play the newest releases, 5-7 years is possible. In that case though you wouldn't really be interested in hyperthreading anyway.

More realistically a computer that's built to play 3D games will last for a couple years before a GPU upgrade, and then a couple more after that. By year three or four it's really starting to show its age if the user still wants to keep up with new games at high settings.

Games in 1080p will be a new thing to me. And by 3d do you mean non 2d games or the popping out of the screen 3d? I mean better than 720 is fine for me, most of my friends that even run a pc for gaming are in need of upgrading so their builds don't look any better than consoles. So I actually have no idea what I'm missing.

 

[UaVaj]

haha yeah. You are talking to a guy that just spent 48 hours out of the last month playing final fantasy 7. By today's standards it looked like garbage, but it's still a game that is as fun to play back then as it is now. Of course people's opinions may very.

funny you bring up final fanstay 7. 15 years ago when playing final fantasy 7. while watching the intro. me and my bothers said . it would be so nice to be able to play with graphic like those full-motion-video. fast foward - that is a reality on a pc.

that is what you are missing. playing as those full-motion-video.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

funny you bring up final fanstay 7. 15 years ago when playing final fantasy 7. while watching the intro. me and my bothers said . it would be so nice to be able to play with graphic like those full-motion-video. fast foward - that is a reality on a pc.

that is what you are missing. playing as those full-motion-video.

Most graphics are a lot better the cutscenes from back then.

 

[BladeVenom]

I also hear that the ps4 has a 8 core that runs 1.2 ghz? Why didn't they just use a 4 core?

I'm not sure. Maybe they think they'll use more cores in future games? Maybe it was just for marketing.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

I'm not sure. Maybe they think they'll use more cores in future games? Maybe it was just for marketing.

Most likely just marketing. An 8 core console for 4-500 bucks while most pcs with 4 cores cost 8-900 plus the "hot rodded pc gpu"

 

[Sleepingforest]

It'll probably go over well with average consumers. "Wow, 8 cores! That's like 2-4 times that of the last generation! It must be 2-4 times stronger! 4K AND AWAY!1!one!"

We tech obsessed folk know better. Per-core power is more important, particularly because single-thread programming is much easier than creating a parallel program.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

It'll probably go over well with average consumers. "Wow, 8 cores! That's like 2-4 times that of the last generation! It must be 2-4 times stronger! 4K AND AWAY!1!one!"

We tech obsessed folk know better. Per-core power is more important, particularly because single-thread programming is much easier than creating a parallel program.

Yeah I heard that it was going to have 8 cores and thought there was a good chance pc's would need just as many. I find it funny even with twice the power and such the games don't look twice as good.