Looking to build budget dare i say gaming computer for disabled brother

[Insert_Nickname]

Rather shows that the G850 is fine for gaming, eh? Then we have the fact that the A10 is crippled by its GPU. So how do you sell that a G860 + 7770 is slower than an A10, when the G860 has perfectly acceptable CPU performance and the 7770 is 4 times faster than that A10?

Some of us do use our PC's for other things besides gaming, you know. Besides that 2 thread Pentium, is going to struggle in a year or two...

Metro 2033, the A10 gets 40FPS on Low at 1368x768.
BF3, has to be at Low to get 60FPS.
Skyrim, Medium to get 60FPS.
No AA/AF in any of these, when AA is most needed at low resolutions.
Perfectly capable? LOL no.

What you fail to realize is that maxing every setting is just not going to happen at $300. No way, however much you twist and turn every dime.

The budget didn't fit it. The end result was $380 and the OP was ok with more budget.

(Hubb1e, I'm just using this quote to get a point across, the following in no way refers to you... )

And that's the whole bloody point, isn't it...?
That 5800K build was specced to go UNDER $300. End of discussion...

 

[mfenn]

The budget didn't fit it. The end result was $380 and the OP was ok with more budget.

Please see post #6 by Lonyo where he gets a 7770 and a G860 into $300. I recommended a change to the PSU and case that didn't cause a net price increase.

Side note, I don't even how there is even an argument about a G860 + 7770 vs. A10-5800K w/ IGP for gaming. There is simply no comparison between the 384-shader 800Mhz IGP with shared DDR3 memory and the 640-shader 1000MHz 7770 with dedicated GDDR5 memory. Even if the CPU part of the A10 was faster for games than the G860 (it usually isn't), it would not be enough to make up for the huge difference in GPU performance.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Some of us do use our PC's for other things besides gaming, you know.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

gaming like world of tanks wow fps tried planetside but too graphic intensive for my budget

Why would you spec a non-gaming computer for someone who wants a gaming build?

What you fail to realize is that maxing every setting is just not going to happen at $300. No way, however much you twist and turn every dime.

The 7770 is nearly 4 times more powerful. It is the difference between having to play on low and being able to play on high/very high.

That 5800K build was specced to go UNDER $300.

And then you went and complained about CPU+discrete GPU builds that were also under $300, saying that the A10 was faster. This when the A10 isn't even close.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Why would you spec a non-gaming computer for someone who wants a gaming build?

Notice something here...?

300.00 us max
BIOSTAR H61MGC LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard 55.00
Intel Pentium G860 Sandy Bridge 3.0GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 70.00
G.SKILL NS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBNS 31.00
COOLMAX ZX Series ZX-500 500W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply 40.00
SAMSUNG DVD Burner SATA Model SH-224BB - OEM 18.00
NZXT Source 210 S210-002 White w/Black Front Trim “Aluminum Brush / Plastic” ATX Mid Tower Computer CaseModel #:S210-002 40.00
SAPPHIRE Ultimate Radeon HD 6670 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card (100326UL)Model #:100326UL 85.00
or
MSI R6570-MD1G/LP Radeon HD 6570 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Low Profile Ready Video Card 55.00)

And is $34 cheaper then your own suggestion.

Why would you invest in a discrete H6570/6670, when you can get almost the same performance for $34 less...?

The 7770 is nearly 4 times more powerful. It is the difference between having to play on low and being able to play on high/very high.

Agreed. But there wasn't the budget to get one from the OP original post. Lonyo managed to fit one in, my hat is of to him. Also keep in mind that I'm not American, and therefore is limited to look at your online stores. An American with good feel for your pricing can certainly do better then I.

I'm just going to quote Anand's own words from his trinity review:

Quote:
On average, Trinity's high-end 384-core GPU manages to be around 16% faster than the fastest Llano GPU, while consuming around 7% more power when active. Given that Trinity is built on the same process node at Llano, I'd call that a relatively good step forward for AMD's equivalent of a "tick". From AMD's perspective, the fact that it can continue to deliver a tangible GPU performance advantage over Intel's latest and greatest even with its die harvested APU (256-core Trinity) is good news. For anyone looking to build a good entry level gaming PC, the Trinity platform easily delivers the best processor graphics performance on the market today. If you're able to spend an extra $100 on a discrete GPU you'll get better performance, but below that Trinity rules. The trick, as always, will be selling the GPU performance advantage alongside the presumably lower x86 CPU performance. We'll have to wait another week to find out the full story on that of course, but if you're mostly concerned about GPU gaming performance, Trinity delivers.
Unqoute

And then you went and complained about CPU+discrete GPU builds that were also under $300, saying that the A10 was faster. This when the A10 isn't even close.

Whoa, now you are putting words in my mouth. I pointed out that I thought it was better to get a Celeron G1610, as it performs almost the same for $20 less...

And considering the A10 trades blows with the i3-3220, which one do you think is the faster CPU compared with the Pentium?.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=677

But the thing is that the 5800K loses all appeal when/if you use a discrete GFX card.

Its okay to disagree but there is no call for hysterics.

 

[redtruthseeker]

People, you must consider an APU option since its cheap and has an upgradeability...

If you pair A10 5800k/5700 GPU with Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 in Dual Graphics/Hybrid CrossfireX mode then you got a performance very very close to Radeon HD 7770 !

A10 5800k is designed for overclocking at its TDP is aimed at 100watts while A10 5700 is not designed for overclocking at its aimed TDP is mere 65watts with near identical performance in GPU and CPU. Trinity can support 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with some tweaks.

/watch?v=hpiHYsbaEIk - Battlefield 3 900p45fpsMedium-High Death Valley 58 players

/watch?v=zC6KirMGP1Q - StarCraft 2 1600p40-60fps unknown settings

/watch?v=OMXjKztKnUw - Battlefield 3 900p45fpsLow APU OC, no dedicated GPU

/watch?v=NJ5hhGrOKAk - Battlefield 3 768p50fpsHigh

/watch?v=VDSPirbAZ3s - Crysis 3 720p35fpsCustom (medium,high,extreme=various)

/watch?v=-pv-EeTn-GM - DIRT 3 1080p40fpsHigh APU's GPU OC 100mhz - no dedicated

/watch?v=g0HapFmwMv8 - Black Ops 2 1080p30fpsCustom APU only - No OC

 

[sm625]

Hells yes you can play planetside 2 on a $300 budget. lol. Just go on ebay and find yourself a core 2 E8400-E8600 system (or E7500+ system) for about $100.

Then buy a HD7750 gpu, or even a HD7770 if your psu can handle it. (The 7750 doesnt require a 6 pin plug)

 

[redtruthseeker]

Hells yes you can play planetside 2 on a $300 budget. lol. Just go on ebay and find yourself a core 2 E8400-E8600 system (or E7500+ system) for about $100.

Then buy a HD7750 gpu, or even a HD7770 if your psu can handle it. (The 7750 doesnt require a 6 pin plug)

You must be joking, really? I can't believe this what you have suggested... Those are 2 core's and no HT, way outdated than Liano or Trinity APU's :
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8400-vs-AMD-A10-5700
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8600-vs-AMD-A10-5700

CPU: AMD Trinity A10 5700 FM2 129$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113289

GPU: GIGABYTE Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 70$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125403

Motherboard: ASRock FM2A85X Extreme6 (Toms Hardware Approved) 105$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157339

RAM: CORSAIR Dominator Platinum 2133mhz CL9 DDR3 2x4gb 130$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233285

So all together its 434$, it's kinda expensive but its somewhat future proof when you decide to upgrade to a Richland APU that are out this month, but you will wait ultil the price gets a bit down in two months...

Richland will out of the box use 2133mhz DDR3 RAM, Trinity can also use 2133mhz with some tweaks and that motherboard is just great for that and OC if you rather decide to get an A10 5800k. Richland APU's GPU can go Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series and your motherboards chip the A85 is a great chip for upgrade since use full potential as it will do with Trinity APU.

A10/A8 APU GPU's with Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 in Dual Graphics perform like 90-100% of Radeon HD 7770 while A10 5700 APU's GPU performs about as 75-80% of Radeon HD 6670 alone with 2133mhz DDR3 RAM.

Richlands GPU's are based on Radeon HD 8xxx series, it will be 15-20% faster than Trinity's GPU's so you will see drastic improvement of performance in games with just an APU's GPU without a dedicated graphics card.

Its your choice, if you go APU route. You wont be a fool, FM2 socket is still alive and Richland is most likely the first and last upgrade if DDR4 gets released in end of 2013 and then Kaveri will use it and smash the Intel HD Graphics 4600 with ease, same scenario how A10 5800k's GPU was running cyrcles around Intel HD Graphics 4000 and even its successor 4600 wont beat A10 5700's and A10 5800's GPU. I am not suprised...

If you have cash and want good performance for current gen then go i3 3220 and get 7850 but you will suffer this and especially next year and upgrading will cost you alot of money and HT won't help you. Does i3 3220 have HT? o.0

EDIT: Trinity 434$ build is a quality build and very good when you decide to upgrade because you will actually save some money on RAM and motherboard to use full potential of upcoming Richland this month.

 

[Sleepingforest]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157315
Mobo $45

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Pentium-...2093234&sr=1-2
Pentium G860 $65

http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-10...093383&sr=1-42
RAM $27

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151256
Optical $16

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127687
HD7770 $95 AR
or http://www.amazon.com/HIS-H775F1GD-D...ywords=hd+7770
HD7750 $90 if you don't want to deal with rebates.

$303 for Pentium G860/4GB RAM with HD7770, $298 with HD7750

I'm running a Celeron G530 and GTX650Ti on a 220w PSU and it won't even exceed 120w from the wall.
Shopping around always helps, rather than sticking to one site, especially on a very tight budget.

I think I'd rather have Ye Olde Twenty Dollar Case plus a CX430 than whatever Rosewill puts in their case. The rest looks really good though.

@Redseekertruth: This build smashes any APU setup for gaming. Even the next generation of APU, judging by the improvements AMD made last time around.

 

[Torn Mind]

An A10-5800K's GPU will always be worse than a 6670, because it is essentailly a nerfed 6670 that is choked by memory bandwidth as well. Being forced the use 2133 Mhz RAM is not a plus. It is a sign that you are not getting the full performance of the GPU.
CPU-wise, an A10 is essentially an E8600 with two extra cores or a high end Core 2 Quad.

There is no "future-proofing" with an APU. The benefit is that you are getting elite LGA775 performance plus a mid-tier GPU for a hundred twenty bucks instead of paying $800 and not getting that kind of GPU performance at all.

The Radeon nomenclature is quite clear. The second number dictates which performance tier a card is in. A 77xx destroys a 76xx and so on. Hell, even a 5870 destroys a 6670 because it was made for a higher tier.

 

[mfenn]

If you pair A10 5800k/5700 GPU with Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 in Dual Graphics/Hybrid CrossfireX mode then you got a performance very very close to Radeon HD 7770 !

Hybrid Crossfire with two low-end DDR3 based GPUs does not sound like my idea of fun. You're going to have microstutter like crazy and all the normal multi-GPU profile bullshit. Lonyo's Intel 7770 build is cheaper, faster, and less BS.

 

[redtruthseeker]

I reccomended 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with CL9 because in future you will upgrade to Richland that is 15% better than Trinity counterpart in CPU and GPU performance, Richland will use the same socket as Trinity the FM2 and it will use 2133mhz RAM out of the box, no tweaks.

Richland APU's GPU is based on Radeon HD 8xxx series and it will consume full potential of 2133mhz DDR3 RAM, also you can go Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series GPU's.

Motherboard and RAM that I recommended/suggested will be great when you decide to upgrade from Trinity to Richland APU, you will only need a small BIOS update to make it compatible with Richland and A85X chipset on motherboard will use full potential of Richland since its improved Trinity with Radeon HD 8xxxD GPU replacing the HD 7xxxD...

CPU+GPU is better if you have enough money for a quality build and that would be atleast 600$ CPU+GPU+Mobo+RAM on AMD side and for Intel it would be 680$.

Lonyo's build is outdated when its about the CPU's because no AES, AVX, AMD64/EM64T and no HyperThreading, look at this:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/456/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8400.html

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/458/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8600.html

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8400-vs-AMD-A10-5700
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8600-vs-AMD-A10-5700

I checked on Newegg and it costs like 50$ more than A10 5700/5800k... This is not BS, the problem is that you guys seem to not accept that APU is a valid option, then you start to trash this thread, harass and discriminate people that use or think of buying an AMD product when its about a processor and when AMD wins or its close to your beloved i5/i7 and its cheaper then you guys go apeshit like its a freakin apocalypse/doomsday! :S

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/207/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Pentium_Dual-Core_G860.html

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Pentium-G860-vs-AMD-A10-5700

Pentium Dual Core G860 does not have AES, AVX, AMD65/EM64T and not even hyperthreading, its so cripled compared to i3 3220/5 and both have a aimed TDP of 65watts... A10 5700 spends more because it has a GPU and its a Quad Core compared to a Dual Core, for future proof gaming in some sense E8400/8600 and G680 will be just too terrible from now on. For 2012, only G680 was acceptable...

Also for multitasking is important and those Dual Core's will do barely what an APU's can do, even Liano A8 3870k kicks those three Intel's CPU that was suggested. Please be unbiased...

i3 3220/3225 is fine, upgrading will cost more for the performance and i3 3220/3225 are Dual Core's and its HT won't help in games except some multitasking and programs that use HT. i3 3220/3225 is solid for the price if you can get right away a 7850 or 7870 max.

Also E8400 and 8600 use an outdated socket if I am correct, right?

Also those microstutter is most likely because a game does not well handle Dual Graphics/CrossfireX and the implementation of it or does not have any support for it at all. Your trashing of APU's GPU is just a "go full retard" mode, APU(CPU+GPU) GPU has a role of integrated graphic processor but better compared to Intel HD Graphics 4000 since Radeon HD 7660D runs circles around it and was shown at Anandtech benchmarks so yea...

You can do 1080p gaming with APU+GPU configuration for games that support Dual Graphic, even thought I consider a 1080p a luxury and unnecesary when 900p is just fine and not much of a difference.

720p gaming is minimal, 900p is decent and for 1080p... Well thats for simulators like ARMA series and if you can have a strong PC to support large draw distance and some things amazing graphical things if you are a addicted to maxed out graphical setting to fry your computer.

 

[Torn Mind]

I reccomended 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with CL9 because in future you will upgrade to Richland that is 15% better than Trinity counterpart in CPU and GPU performance, Richland will use the same socket as Trinity the FM2 and it will use 2133mhz RAM out of the box, no tweaks.

Richland APU's GPU is based on Radeon HD 8xxx series and it will consume full potential of 2133mhz DDR3 RAM, also you can go Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series GPU's.

Motherboard and RAM that I recommended/suggested will be great when you decide to upgrade from Trinity to Richland APU, you will only need a small BIOS update to make it compatible with Richland and A85X chipset on motherboard will use full potential of Richland since its improved Trinity with Radeon HD 8xxxD GPU replacing the HD 7xxxD...

CPU+GPU is always better if you got right amount of cash, Lonyo's build is outdated when its about the CPU's because no AES, AVX, AMD64/EM64T and no HyperThreading, look at this:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/456/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8400.html

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/458/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Core_2_Duo_E8600.html

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8400-vs-AMD-A10-5700
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Duo-E8600-vs-AMD-A10-5700

I checked on Newegg and it costs like 50$ more than A10 5700/5800k... This is not BS, the problem is that you guys seem to not accept that APU is a valid option, then you start to trash this thread, harass and discriminate people that use or think of buying an AMD product when its about a processor and when AMD wins or its close to your beloved i5/i7 and its cheaper then you guys go apeshit like its a freakin apocalypse/doomsday! :S

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/207/AMD_A10-Series_A10-5700_vs_Intel_Pentium_Dual-Core_G860.html

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Pentium-G860-vs-AMD-A10-5700

Pentium Dual Core G860 does not have AES, AVX, AMD65/EM64T and not even hyperthreading, its so cripled compared to i3 3220/5 and both consume have a aimed TDP of 65watts... A10 5700 spends more because it has a GPU and its a Quad Core compared to a Dual Core, for future proof gaming in some sense E8400/8600 and G680 will be just too terrible from now on. For 2012, was acceptable...

Also for multitasking is important and those Dual Core's will do barely what an APU's can do, even Liano A8 3870k kicks those three Intel's CPU that was suggested. Please be unbiased...

i3 3220/3225 is fine, upgrading will cost far more for the performance and i3 3220/3225 are Dual Core's and its HT won't help them since games don't use HT at all so no point there expect some multitasking and some other small things...

DDR3 will always be slower than onboard GDDR5.
For someone supposedly crusading for the truth, did you just tell people, deliberately or not, that the E8600 does not support 64-bit computing--that is what AMD64/EM64T is--, despite even the cpu-world link having a big giant checkmark for both? Yes. There is even evidence of people successfuly installing Windows 7 64-bit on that processor, and I have personally seen Windows 7 64-bit on an E6550 and Pentium E2180.

AES is totally irrelevant for games; you have to be doing some sort of data encryption to make it useful.

But ultimately, the instruction set support does one thing: it gives a boost to IPC for programs that use these instruction sets.

An 86xx GPU will usually be beaten a x7xx GPU one generation behind. This has usually been the case with past GPU's.
Another thing, is that if the 86xx GPU can Crossfire with 7000 series GPUs, then it itself has the same architecture as a 7000 series GPU, much like the 7660D is actually a 6670 rebrand.

Time to compute code is what processors are measured by, and benchmarks are the closest proxy to finding out that measure. In general, (Clockspeed*IPC)*(Core usage of app). An instruction set is essentally an IPC booster.

Trinity has a 100W TDP for its K processors because of it's high clockspeed. Lower it, and its power consumption, and thus heat production decreases.

And seriously, hyping up the A85X chipset when A75 would do just the same? Its not like this guy is going to have the money to spend on two discrete GPUs and Crossfire those together or use the extra SATA ports. Where are the technical specifications that tell me that the GPU will perform better on an A85X instead of an A75 or even an A55 board?

Listen to the original poster's needs. Gaming is the first priority, hence maxing out settings at 1280x768 the first priority in this build. The dual-core Pentium might have some dips in some games that scale well with three cores, but the GPU is so powerful that the minimum frame rates should be more than acceptable at such a low resolution.

Upgrading in the future requires more money, and essentially means more budget. Buy an A10 now! Sell it off for with $100 bucks in a couple weeks and buy Richland! Then buy a discrete GPU to Crossfire with it! Over budget.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I reccomended 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with CL9 because in future you will upgrade to Richland that is 15% better than Trinity counterpart in CPU and GPU performance, Richland will use the same socket as Trinity the FM2 and it will use 2133mhz RAM out of the box, no tweaks.

Yeah, you know what's already 4x faster in GPU and allows an easy $100 upgrade to a 20% faster processor--without requiring expensive, error prone RAM?

Intel plus iGPU.

APUs are pretty much a last ditch effort, recommended only if fitting a Pentium and a basic GPU is impossible, since upgrading APUs (the $130 one is at best just above Pentium level, so you can't get a better one in the same series; you will require a socket switch) is more difficult.

 

[redtruthseeker]

Richland uses the same socket as Trinity FM2, when upgrading you can sold A10 5700/5800k and Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 CC:800mhz EM:1600mhz for 100$

He can upgrade to Richland two month later after release/launch when it gets a bit cheaper, A10 6700/6800k will cost 145/150 at launch launch most likely, two-three months later the price will drop for 10 to 15$ most likely. I think the whole upgrade thing will cost him 300$ - 100$ for sold Trinity A10 and Radeon HD 6670 = 200$

Anyway EA DICE got an sweet suprise from an AMD, a computer with Kabini or most likely Kaveri APU on it. Its also rumored to support GDDR5 RAM:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APU_Supports_GDDR5_Memory_Report.html

If its true, then APU option will seem "expensive" but for the performance you will get it for the money, it would be a sweet deal. So GDDR5 could be integrated into the motherboard, but I also expect an motherboard with DDR4 RAM as a cheaper alternative Kaveri option... I am stunned.

 

[Torn Mind]

Crossfire is more problematic than one single discrete card nor does every game scale well with the extra GPU.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Richland uses the same socket as Trinity FM2, when upgrading you can sold A10 5700/5800k and Radeon HD 6670 1Gb DDR3 CC:800mhz EM:1600mhz for 100$

He can upgrade to Richland two month later after release/launch when it gets a bit cheaper, A10 6700/6800k will cost 145/150 at launch launch most likely, two-three months later the price will drop for 10 to 15$ most likely. I think the whole upgrade thing will cost him 300$ - 100$ for sold Trinity A10 and Radeon HD 6670 = 200$

Anyway EA DICE got an sweet suprise from an AMD, a computer with Kabini or most likely Kaveri APU on it. Its also rumored to support GDDR5 RAM:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APU_Supports_GDDR5_Memory_Report.html

If its true, then APU option will seem "expensive" but for the performance you will get it for the money, it would be a sweet deal. So GDDR5 could be integrated into the motherboard, but I also expect an motherboard with DDR4 RAM as a cheaper alternative Kaveri option... I am stunned.

I think you've somehow missed the point that the "stunning" performance of Richland and Kaveri is available right now, no future upgrading necessary, for the same price as an A10. In fact, even if they each improved 30% on top of the last generation, it would STILL not match a 7750 in graphical power. You'd have to Crossfire to beat the 7750, which makes the cost higher, plus creating awful stutter and graphical issues.

It's just not worth it. You can continue spouting your propaganda, but the fact is, AMD's time in the CPU sun is over.

 

[redtruthseeker]

If AMD falls then everyone is f##ked... But its not likely to happen, why?

Two current generation consoles use AMD's GPU's, all next generation consoles use AMD's GPU's while PlayStation 4 uses an AMD's APU(CPU+GPU) with 8gb of unified GDDR5 memory and Sony wanted to use Kaveri, but it was not really ready for mass production and it would cost of production would be high because fabrication factories are currently not prepared to produce vast amounts of it ultil Q3/Q4 of 2013 and that's a bit late.

Liano > Trinity > Richland/Trinity 2.0 > Kaveri > ?

Kaveri APU is finalization of APU design while the Kaveri's successor will be most power efficient for performance in CPU and GPU. CPU of Kaveri will be quad-core Steamroller based while GPU will be fully performed Radeon HD 7xxx, I would expect a 7850 so it does not compete with Radeon HD 8xxx series graphic cards.

Also APU's on Tablet market will dominate over Intel most likely:
/watch?v=CV-U50Viv_k - /watch?v=8N7LNHRl2jE - /watch?v=b1kgR09j33s

/watch?v=OjBnP_5Xt9g - /watch?v=QJGM7ma3XKY - /watch?v=K0i7yB6EjBk

/watch?v=ro6NyfkOeW4 - /watch?v=4e5oTEdtlOg - /watch?v=EROLNc-pXUo

Don't ignore the possibilities of Accelerated Processing Unit's, currently APU's have couple of flaws that will be fixed and APU technology would never happen if AMD dint bought ATI and thus sacrificing supremacy in CPU market but this is going to change...

Also its called pointing out the truth while for propaganda, I don't like propaganda of USA goverment pointing out the "bad guys" like Chavez that wants assured independence over colonial and imperialistic goverment of USA that don't benefit anyone expect making trouble... Intel is somewhat like that, they sabotaged russian Elbro from US market...

So now the economy of your beloved United States of America is in a loop, if it gets out of the warmongering ways that reminds me of medieval europe then it will collapse under its own free-market capitalistic economy and structure with also allowing some primitivism and integration of Church and its fundamentalists into the goverment while also pleasing the corporations turning your country and goverment into a fascistic dictatorship imperial menace of the free world and possible threat to Canada & Europe...

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, you're extrapolating pretty far here. I should have clarified what I said. AMD is out of the desktop enthusiast market.

They're still in the game for GPUs, consoles, the lower end of mobile space, and average users.

But: you must see people complaining. The consoles are already behind the curve, and they haven't even been released yet. AMD and APUs are fine for the low end. But they still aren't and won't be offering the power enthusiasts want in $400+ systems.

And yes: I am fully aware that the United States is responsible for many dictatorships and civil wars in the name of capitalism. I also realize that we are exceptionally dependent on consumption to drive the economy. However, we also have some of the highest standards of living around. Is there better? Sure, in bits and pieces here and there. But the US is still an excellent place to live overall.

 

[Torn Mind]

Buying an AMD GPU feeds AMD's coffers.

An HD7770 absolutely destroys an 6670 and its gimped APU brethren.

I don't care about red herrings. The matter at hand is all about the performance of the hardware. Hardware performance is a speed measure, not hype and irrelevant points. Kaveri will still lag behind an i5-2500K, and it will not have a GPU that will cannabalize sales of high end GPUs. An on-die 7850 would ruin sales of everything from the 8700s on down.

Also, redtruthseeker did lie about the non-presence of EM64T on Core 2 Duos. I doubt redtruthseeker knows that EMT64 is just support for executing 64-bit code.

 

[Torn Mind]

Oh, and I do have evidence that the A10 performs nearly identically to the Core 2 Extreme Q series of processors.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-5800K+APU&id=1446
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q9650+@+3.00GHz&id=1050

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=49


Evidence that the 7770 is 1.5-2 times faster than its fully loaded 6670 cousin.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/613?vs=536

Oh, and an A8+A55 motherboard+1600Mhz RAM+7770 is a more powerful gaming configuration than an A10/A85X/2133 Mhz RAM/6670 GPU. It's not an Intel thing. It's just the need for more GPU power.

 

[mfenn]

Also its called pointing out the truth while for propaganda, I don't like propaganda of USA goverment pointing out the "bad guys" like Chavez that wants assured independence over colonial and imperialistic goverment of USA that don't benefit anyone expect making trouble... Intel is somewhat like that, they sabotaged russian Elbro from US market...

So now the economy of your beloved United States of America is in a loop, if it gets out of the warmongering ways that reminds me of medieval europe then it will collapse under its own free-market capitalistic economy and structure with also allowing some primitivism and integration of Church and its fundamentalists into the goverment while also pleasing the corporations turning your country and goverment into a fascistic dictatorship imperial menace of the free world and possible threat to Canada & Europe...

dafuq? Did you pop straight out of P&N? You're only working to discredit yourself by posting nonsense like this in a technical forum.

 

[mfenn]

I reccomended 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with CL9 because in future you will upgrade to Richland that is 15% better than Trinity counterpart in CPU and GPU performance, Richland will use the same socket as Trinity the FM2 and it will use 2133mhz RAM out of the box, no tweaks.

Why should I buy something based on the promise of future performance when I can get the same performance today with an Intel CPU and a GCN-based dGPU?

Richland APU's GPU is based on Radeon HD 8xxx series and it will consume full potential of 2133mhz DDR3 RAM, also you can go Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series GPU's.

You realize that Radeon HD8000 is nothing but an OEM focused rebrand of HD7000, right?

Motherboard and RAM that I recommended/suggested will be great when you decide to upgrade from Trinity to Richland APU, you will only need a small BIOS update to make it compatible with Richland and A85X chipset on motherboard will use full potential of Richland since its improved Trinity with Radeon HD 8xxxD GPU replacing the HD 7xxxD...

Or I could just buy a more powerful discrete GPU for less and enjoy better performance today.

CPU+GPU is better if you have enough money for a quality build and that would be atleast 600$ CPU+GPU+Mobo+RAM on AMD side and for Intel it would be 680$..

And yet there is a build in this very thread that gets an Intel CPU and a current-gen AMD GCN GPU for $300.

Lonyo's build is outdated when its about the CPU's because no AES, AVX, AMD64/EM64T and no HyperThreading, look at this:

This is a straight up lie. The G860 supports 64-bit processing (AMD64 and/or EM64T). AES and AVX have no bearing on games, and AMD doesn't have HT either.

I checked on Newegg and it costs like 50$ more than A10 5700/5800k... This is not BS, the problem is that you guys seem to not accept that APU is a valid option, then you start to trash this thread, harass and discriminate people that use or think of buying an AMD product when its about a processor and when AMD wins or its close to your beloved i5/i7 and its cheaper then you guys go apeshit like its a freakin apocalypse/doomsday! :S

OK, this is just descending into ranting. Nobody is harrassing or discriminating against you. This is a discussion about hardware, you're the only person trying to paint yourself as the victim of some sort of hate speech.

Pentium Dual Core G860 does not have AES, AVX, AMD65/EM64T and not even hyperthreading, its so cripled compared to i3 3220/5 and both have a aimed TDP of 65watts... A10 5700 spends more because it has a GPU and its a Quad Core compared to a Dual Core, for future proof gaming in some sense E8400/8600 and G680 will be just too terrible from now on. For 2012, only G680 was acceptable...

Covered above. And no, the A10 5700 is not a quad core. It's more akin to a dual-core with HyperThreading than a true quad core, especially for FP-intensive tasks like games.

Also for multitasking is important and those Dual Core's will do barely what an APU's can do, even Liano A8 3870k kicks those three Intel's CPU that was suggested. Please be unbiased...

What are you even trying to say here? An APU does not beat an Intel CPU + discrete GPU, which is what the discussion has been about all along.

i3 3220/3225 is fine, upgrading will cost more for the performance and i3 3220/3225 are Dual Core's and its HT won't help in games except some multitasking and programs that use HT. i3 3220/3225 is solid for the price if you can get right away a 7850 or 7870 max.

Huh? We're talking about builds for $300, stop trying to make strawman arguments about more expensive parts.

Also E8400 and 8600 use an outdated socket if I am correct, right?

Sure, but that's hardly relevant to a discussion of current CPUs.

Also those microstutter is most likely because a game does not well handle Dual Graphics/CrossfireX and the implementation of it or does not have any support for it at all.

What is your argument here? That CrossfireX is worse than a single GPU because games sometimes don't support it? If so, we are in full agreement.

Your trashing of APU's GPU is just a "go full retard" mode,

And now the personal attacks start. Great move!

APU(CPU+GPU) GPU has a role of integrated graphic processor but better compared to Intel HD Graphics 4000 since Radeon HD 7660D runs circles around it and was shown at Anandtech benchmarks so yea...

Why are you even bringing up the Intel IGP when nobody is suggesting to use it? All Intel discussion has been about pairing it with a discrete GPU.

You can do 1080p gaming with APU+GPU configuration for games that support Dual Graphic, even thought I consider a 1080p a luxury and unnecesary when 900p is just fine and not much of a difference.

Or I could just buy a more powerful discrete GPU like the 7770 and play at 1080p without having to worry about dual-GPU nonsense.

720p gaming is minimal, 900p is decent and for 1080p... Well thats for simulators like ARMA series and if you can have a strong PC to support large draw distance and some things amazing graphical things if you are a addicted to maxed out graphical setting to fry your computer.

OK, time to get a jab in. Maybe if you bought an Intel CPU and a discrete GPU, you wouldn't have to worry about frying your computer when you turn up the graphics settings :awe:

Spoiler

That last part was a joke in case you couldn't tell. The best jokes have a kernel of truth however.

 

[Torn Mind]

dafuq? Did you pop straight out of P&N? You're only working to discredit yourself by posting nonsense like this.

He already proved himself a hardware pseudo-intellectual when he posted the bullshit about the G860 and the E8400 not having EM64T despite having a link that actually says they do. Not to mention the countless MILLIONS or more that have some 64-bit system running on a Core 2 Duo.

Not to mention the rife logical fallacies, such as the appeal to novelty(it's new, it must be better!) or red herrings (those beautiful adjectives, your country sucks, AMD is saviour).

I was burned in the past by the damn Pentium 4s and their clockspeed way back when I was 14 and really didn't have a clue. I vowed never again to be fooled by marketing tricks once I became aware of that years later.


It doesn't have to be an Intel CPU+discrete. Even an APU+discrete better. An A8, cheaper motherboard, 1600 Mhz RAM, and a 7770 will destroy a CF 7660D+6670.

 

[mfenn]

Not to mention the rife logical fallacies, such as the appeal to novelty(it's new, it must be better!) or red herrings (those beautiful adjectives, your country sucks, AMD is saviour).

Agree. The icing on the cake is that AMD is headquartered in Sunnyvale, CA. So much for saving us from the "fascistic dictatorship imperial menace."

It doesn't have to be an Intel CPU+discrete. Even an APU+discrete better. An A8, cheaper motherboard, 1600 Mhz RAM, and a 7770 will destroy a CF 7660D+6670.

Good point!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It doesn't have to be an Intel CPU+discrete. Even an APU+discrete better. An A8, cheaper motherboard, 1600 Mhz RAM, and a 7770 will destroy a CF 7660D+6670.

Excellent point...

(I still can't figure out why you can't get the 750K in the US... )