Looking for evidence of any obvious lies from the President

[ch33zw1z]

WRT OP, our current POTUS has decades of evidence describing his personality disorders, pathological lying is certainly on the list. Leave it to 'Muricans to go all in for the grift.

 

[whm1974]

Many of us don't consider Jehovah's witnesses to be Christian. I guess I missed the passage in the Bible that states jw's can speak for God.

True but however, historically the vast majority of Christians have never considered that Other Christians who disagreed with them on the most minute points of Doagma and Faith as "True Christians", especially if their sect is in power.

So there is really no such as a "True Christian" or has been and nor ever will be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OP, you have now been presented with proof of lying. Some you may claim is not significant, could be mistakes in some cases and so on.

Disallowing those we still have some serious whoppers that are unparalleled in scope and number over the last century or so and perhaps further back, and I say that because the details of history become blurrier the further we go.

Has your question been answered?

 

[Moonbeam]

I think many many Christian's have an odd view of what it means to be Christian's. In fact, denominations of Christian's can't even agree.

I think we can see some of that in this thread. And I really have trouble with the idea that if you know you are going to heaven you wouldn't want to share.

With resurrect to American Christianity, I have always thought of Evangelicals as faith pushers:

The most widely accepted definition of evangelical is probably the one put forward by historian David Bebbington in 1989. It’s called the “Bebbington quadrilateral” because it identifies evangelicals as Christians who share four main qualities:

• Biblicism: a high regard for the Bible
• Crucicentrism: a focus on Jesus’s crucifixion and its saving effects
• Conversionism: a belief that humans need to be converted
• Activism: the belief that faith should influence one’s public life

A fuller exploration of the different interpretations of just that one form of Christianity can be had here:

 

[ch33zw1z]

I think we can see some of that in this thread. And I really have trouble with the idea that if you know you are going to heaven you wouldn't want to share.

With resurrect to American Christianity, I have always thought of Evangelicals as faith pushers:


The most widely accepted definition of evangelical is probably the one put forward by historian David Bebbington in 1989. It’s called the “Bebbington quadrilateral” because it identifies evangelicals as Christians who share four main qualities:

• Biblicism: a high regard for the Bible
• Crucicentrism: a focus on Jesus’s crucifixion and its saving effects
• Conversionism: a belief that humans need to be converted
• Activism: the belief that faith should influence one’s public life

A fuller exploration of the different interpretations of just that one form of Christianity can be had here:

Yes, I was raised Evangelical and it certainly had strong emphasis are "saving" as many people as possible. We had pamphlets, went door to door, used fear mongering, condescension, judgemental soap box style outreaching to try and convert others. Fear is an amazingly useful tactic.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yes, I was raised Evangelical and it certainly had strong emphasis are "saving" as many people as possible. We had pamphlets, went door to door, used fear mongering, condescension, judgemental soap box style outreaching to try and convert others. Fear is an amazingly useful tactic.

There's a difference between sharing beliefs and forcing conformity. In principle, there cannot be forced conversions as salvation is a choice, something between God and individual. One cannot "save" anyone as that's not humanly possible. Yes I know that forced conversions have happened but it's like a forced confession as there's no sincerity to it. That is why saying "forgive me" is irrelevant. What is needed is repentance which is the intent to utterly turn from wrongdoing. There is no "get out of hell" card.

Again I understand that many have thought otherwise through the ages, but that does not match anything found in Jesus' teachings.

Hey, it's Sunday AM, I can get theological on your ass.

 

[whm1974]

I think we can see some of that in this thread. And I really have trouble with the idea that if you know you are going to heaven you wouldn't want to share.

With resurrect to American Christianity, I have always thought of Evangelicals as faith pushers:

The most widely accepted definition of evangelical is probably the one put forward by historian David Bebbington in 1989. It’s called the “Bebbington quadrilateral” because it identifies evangelicals as Christians who share four main qualities:

• Biblicism: a high regard for the Bible
• Crucicentrism: a focus on Jesus’s crucifixion and its saving effects
• Conversionism: a belief that humans need to be converted
• Activism: the belief that faith should influence one’s public life

A fuller exploration of the different interpretations of just that one form of Christianity can be had here:

You forgot the link.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There's a difference between sharing beliefs and forcing conformity. In principle, there cannot be forced conversions as salvation is a choice, something between God and individual. One cannot "save" anyone as that's not humanly possible. Yes I know that forced conversions have happened but it's like a forced confession as there's no sincerity to it. That is why saying "forgive me" is irrelevant. What is needed is repentance which is the intent to utterly turn from wrongdoing. There is no "get out of hell" card.

Again I understand that many have thought otherwise through the ages, but that does not match anything found in Jesus' teachings.

Hey, it's Sunday AM, I can get theological on your ass.

I don't disagree at all. The forced conversion would be like any other theocracy we've seen in human history.

The topic of being saved is essentially saved from eternal damnation via full on release of your personal ownership of who you are. You are essentially nothing without your relationship with God the Father, except an eternally damned sinner.

And while these decisions can't be forced, they can certainly be coerced(even unwittingly from both parties) through manipulation of basic (and powerful) human emotion. The basic premise of flight or flight applies generally, but moreso self preservation.

What were discussing here is a pretty big part of my abscense from "christianity" as we know it today. I don't believe that's there's any one solid answer for what happens after we die.

 

[HomerJS]

This is for when I'm in a civil intelligent conversation with a conservative Trump supporter like possibly in this thread. I want to have the facts so I can support my arguments. If conservatives can help with this. And it's not meant in a sarcastic or demeaning way to conservatives here. Maybe some conservatives will agree one or more of these are outright big lies. Sorry for another lie thread but just looking the facts.

So I've come up with a few possibilities.

1. Trump saying Americans are not paying for the tariffs on China. That could be an outright big lie but I'm not sure yet. In the short run it seems to be a lie because the initial buyer of Chinese imports are not Chinese, they seem to be American. But what if the initial buyers (or middlemen if you will) are sort of an international group?

2. Trump denying the travel ban is a Muslim ban. To me this is an obvious big lie with no way deny it's a lie. He said before in public it's a Muslim ban but he had the wording for the papers submitted to the Supreme Court to have it be a ban related to security and not just Muslims. I know I risk being called a Muslim sympathizer for that but then you could label the four dissenting Justices as Muslim sympathizers.

3. He said in public he has nothing to do with Russia but we have a signed letter of intent to plan the hotel in Russia. Not sure yet if this is a outright big lie because both sides can wiggle on this one. But why didn't he mention that business letter of intent when he said that? But he can try to say he meant nothing to do with any illegal activity with Russia or something like that which could excuse what he said.

4. And his statement 3 years ago that Mexico is sending up their worst people to cross north across our border. Since he may claim he meant their government was doing that it provides an explanation so it could be opinion and not a lie. But if he meant ordinary Mexican families are sending their worst then that would appear to be an outright big lie imo.

So I want another outright big lie beside the denial of a Muslim travel ban. So if any of the other 3 possible obvious big lies can be proven with internet searches then please assist. Or a big lie I may have missed.

And for the record I know Clinton is a liar with his I did not have sex with that woman statement. And Obama is a liar with his you can keep your health insurance period statement. Those are proven outright big lies verified by simple net searches.

So I have an obvious big lie from Trump when he denied the travel ban was a Muslim ban. But I want another one that will put a conservative on the defensive, because denying it's a Muslim travel ban isn't much of an embarrassment to a conservative.

Just show Trump's vs Obama inauguration pics and ask them do you believe your eyes or Trump.

 

[Commodus]

Just show Trump's vs Obama inauguration pics and ask them do you believe your eyes or Trump.

I was going to suggest just that. One of the first blatant lies that started Trump's presidency was his claim about the inauguration crowd size. It was an Orwellian "don't believe your eyes, just believe me" moment that made clear truth wouldn't matter in the Trump administration.

 

[HomerJS]

I was going to suggest just that. One of the first blatant lies that started Trump's presidency was his claim about the inauguration crowd size. It was an Orwellian "don't believe your eyes, just believe me" moment that made clear truth wouldn't matter in the Trump administration.

I already know what will be said. That lie is insignificant. Will try to move goalpost. Scarier answer will be they believe Trump.

BTW - DC transit system confirmed pics with their ridership numbers.

I guess truth doesn't matter with this guy and his lemmings.

 

[Moonbeam]

You forgot the link.

Fixed, thanks. I must not have saved the final edit. That post got all screwed up with stuff in the original and it took a while to fix.

 

[zzyzxroad]

This is for when I'm in a civil intelligent conversation with a conservative Trump supporter like possibly in this thread. I want to have the facts so I can support my arguments. If conservatives can help with this. And it's not meant in a sarcastic or demeaning way to conservatives here. Maybe some conservatives will agree one or more of these are outright big lies. Sorry for another lie thread but just looking the facts.

So I've come up with a few possibilities.

1. Trump saying Americans are not paying for the tariffs on China. That could be an outright big lie but I'm not sure yet. In the short run it seems to be a lie because the initial buyer of Chinese imports are not Chinese, they seem to be American. But what if the initial buyers (or middlemen if you will) are sort of an international group?

2. Trump denying the travel ban is a Muslim ban. To me this is an obvious big lie with no way deny it's a lie. He said before in public it's a Muslim ban but he had the wording for the papers submitted to the Supreme Court to have it be a ban related to security and not just Muslims. I know I risk being called a Muslim sympathizer for that but then you could label the four dissenting Justices as Muslim sympathizers.

3. He said in public he has nothing to do with Russia but we have a signed letter of intent to plan the hotel in Russia. Not sure yet if this is a outright big lie because both sides can wiggle on this one. But why didn't he mention that business letter of intent when he said that? But he can try to say he meant nothing to do with any illegal activity with Russia or something like that which could excuse what he said.

4. And his statement 3 years ago that Mexico is sending up their worst people to cross north across our border. Since he may claim he meant their government was doing that it provides an explanation so it could be opinion and not a lie. But if he meant ordinary Mexican families are sending their worst then that would appear to be an outright big lie imo.

So I want another outright big lie beside the denial of a Muslim travel ban. So if any of the other 3 possible obvious big lies can be proven with internet searches then please assist. Or a big lie I may have missed.

And for the record I know Clinton is a liar with his I did not have sex with that woman statement. And Obama is a liar with his you can keep your health insurance period statement. Those are proven outright big lies verified by simple net searches.

So I have an obvious big lie from Trump when he denied the travel ban was a Muslim ban. But I want another one that will put a conservative on the defensive, because denying it's a Muslim travel ban isn't much of an embarrassment to a conservative.

Clinton for sure but the Obama doctor thing or the Bush read my lips thing were said before hand. I'd call that a bad guess and not a lie. Trup is something different though. He is a pathological liar and that should be clear to anyone who pays attention to him.

 

[zzyzxroad]

The Ti in Nvidia's best video cards stands for Trump Edition.

Super!

 

[Jhhnn]

Trump lying? He's still breathing, right?

 

[interchange]

Off the top of my head, there's the inauguration crowd, Mexico paying for the wall, millions of illegal voters, total exoneration... Hundreds of instances of flat out made up bullshit that seems insignificant but is actually really dangerous -- like repeatedly claiming that El Paso was the most dangerous city in the country.