Looking for evidence of any obvious lies from the President

[PlanetJosh]

This is for when I'm in a civil intelligent conversation with a conservative Trump supporter like possibly in this thread. I want to have the facts so I can support my arguments. If conservatives can help with this. And it's not meant in a sarcastic or demeaning way to conservatives here. Maybe some conservatives will agree one or more of these are outright big lies. Sorry for another lie thread but just looking the facts.

So I've come up with a few possibilities.

1. Trump saying Americans are not paying for the tariffs on China. That could be an outright big lie but I'm not sure yet. In the short run it seems to be a lie because the initial buyer of Chinese imports are not Chinese, they seem to be American. But what if the initial buyers (or middlemen if you will) are sort of an international group?

2. Trump denying the travel ban is a Muslim ban. To me this is an obvious big lie with no way deny it's a lie. He said before in public it's a Muslim ban but he had the wording for the papers submitted to the Supreme Court to have it be a ban related to security and not just Muslims. I know I risk being called a Muslim sympathizer for that but then you could label the four dissenting Justices as Muslim sympathizers.

3. He said in public he has nothing to do with Russia but we have a signed letter of intent to plan the hotel in Russia. Not sure yet if this is a outright big lie because both sides can wiggle on this one. But why didn't he mention that business letter of intent when he said that? But he can try to say he meant nothing to do with any illegal activity with Russia or something like that which could excuse what he said.

4. And his statement 3 years ago that Mexico is sending up their worst people to cross north across our border. Since he may claim he meant their government was doing that it provides an explanation so it could be opinion and not a lie. But if he meant ordinary Mexican families are sending their worst then that would appear to be an outright big lie imo.

So I want another outright big lie beside the denial of a Muslim travel ban. So if any of the other 3 possible obvious big lies can be proven with internet searches then please assist. Or a big lie I may have missed.

And for the record I know Clinton is a liar with his I did not have sex with that woman statement. And Obama is a liar with his you can keep your health insurance period statement. Those are proven outright big lies verified by simple net searches.

So I have an obvious big lie from Trump when he denied the travel ban was a Muslim ban. But I want another one that will put a conservative on the defensive, because denying it's a Muslim travel ban isn't much of an embarrassment to a conservative.

 

[Greenman]

Why argue? You're not going to change anyone's mind. Just express your opinion and leave it at that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Chew on these

 

[dank69]

Wapo has 10000+ for you to choose from.

 

[Moonbeam]

Why argue? You're not going to change anyone's mind. Just express your opinion and leave it at that.

As a Christian wouldn't it be my duty to bring people to God regardless of what they wish? Is it their fault they don't know they are damned if somebody doesn't save them. Isn't the first thing a Christian does is think of others?

 

[Thebobo]

As far as a Muslim ban wasnt it not supposed to be just temporary like a hundred twenty days just so they can figure out how to do it. I don't understand this and then nobody ever asked him that if it's true

 

[Moonbeam]

Wapo has 10000+ for you to choose from.

The simple formula I use is that if his mouth is open he's lying. Keep it simple and statistics free. You are talking to conservatives the masters of low level thinking.

 

[whm1974]

As a Christian wouldn't it be my duty to bring people to God regardless of what they wish? Is it their fault they don't know they are damned if somebody doesn't save them. Isn't the first thing a Christian does is think of others?

I thought you was a Buddhist? When did you become a Christian?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

There’s far better uses for your time than finding ways to win arguments with people who will never be swayed by your arguments.

But the easiest lies are the accomplishments he claims that are demonstrably not his. Claiming repeatedly to have passed the VA bill which Obama signed years before for example.

 

[Greenman]

As a Christian wouldn't it be my duty to bring people to God regardless of what they wish? Is it their fault they don't know they are damned if somebody doesn't save them. Isn't the first thing a Christian does is think of others?

No, it's not your duty to bring people to God against their will.

 

[PlanetJosh]

Ok forgot one more. Trump said that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in Nov 2016 because of voter fraud. At the time it could've been considered opinion and not a lie. But Trump has not put national election voter fraud as any kind of big priority that's in the news.

His lack of public concern for voter fraud makes his 2016 statement an obvious big lie. He would want to put voter fraud in the forefront to help him win in 2020 right? So now I have two obvious big lies by Trump. And it took my own net research to show he is a liar. So if I can show it then it shouldn't be that hard for most people including Trump supporters recognize at least two obvious big lies by him.

And if any progressives thinks I'm giving support to conservatives by the tone of my OP don't worry. I still think I'm a moderate who leans a bit to the left even though some may think I'm more conservative than that. My OP cast a bit of doubt on 3 of the possible lies because that's the way to be considerate in a debate with a Trump supporter and I happen to believe what I wrote.

 

[cfenton]

Claiming that there were millions of illegal votes cast in the election. That was an obvious lie when he said it, and he's had almost three years to turn up evidence without producing anything.

Also, in regards to your first point, even if middlemen are paying the tariffs on some products, there are many that will be paid by American companies. Apple and Microsoft seem like obvious tech examples. Further, even if middlemen are initially paying the tariffs, it's not like the middlemen will eat that cost. They will pass it along to the American buyers.

 

[Moonbeam]

I thought you was a Buddhist? When did you become a Christian?

Nope, just a nobody, but if I were a Christian it seems to me that as one that would be my duty, right?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Nope, just a nobody, but if I were a Christian it seems to me that as one that would be my duty, right?

You seem to have an odd view of what it means to be a Christian.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, it's not your duty to bring people to God against their will.

I don't see myself having said that. I don't think you can make a horse drink, just lead it to water. But I wouldn't leave a thirsty horse in a field without water for that reason. I would have that duty in my opinion. I would also force the horse out of the field if it, say, had some irrational fear of the only place I could offer it a drink. So I would say it's my duty to try as a Christian, no?

 

[whm1974]

You seem to have an odd view of what it means to be a Christian.

When I was briefly studying with the JWs, we believed that it was our duty to inform people that God destroy everyone come the Apocalypse who isn't a JW.

I'm glad I left that cult before I suffered lasting damage. I might have refused a blood transfusion and died.

 

[Moonbeam]

You seem to have an odd view of what it means to be a Christian.

I wasn't offering my view as fact but seeking guidance as to whether that view doesn't comport with a lot of the, at least so called, Christianity I have seen. I would welcome your opinion. Did I present it incorrectly or describe in a way that does not reflect something typically suggested to be Christian by perhaps misguided Christians themselves?

I have some problem with Greenman's possibly sensible opinion you should just let the ignorant believe in their ignorance even when that is clearly bad for them. I am partial to the notion there are truths and there are fictions and that people have different levels of understanding and that those who know should tell those who don't, even if only because an unexamined life isn't worth living, or so I've heard. Naturally, there is always a risk one does such things our of self flattering arrogance, but hey! If the blind weren't leading the blind in the first place, who would need saving.

 

[IronWing]

The Ti in Nvidia's best video cards stands for Trump Edition.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

There's no point. It's a waste of effort and time. People who still support trump, support his lies, support his racism, support his misogyny.
They're ok with that, and have been for a long time.

 

[soundforbjt]

He said he had the best brain, that's a whopper.
He said he has the best mind, but couldn't remember much when asked in writing by the Mueller investigation.

 

[Perknose]

As a Christian wouldn't it be my duty to bring people to God regardless of what they wish? Is it their fault they don't know they are damned if somebody doesn't save them. Isn't the first thing a Christian does is think of others?

No, it's not your duty to bring people to God against their will.

^^^ Uh oh. Somebody doesn't understand sarcasm, Moonbeam or, well, pretty much anything.

 

[shortylickens]

theres whole websites dedicated to tracking his lies.
The people who need to wake up arent listening to reason. its kinda pointless.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

When I was briefly studying with the JWs, we believed that it was our duty to inform people that God destroy everyone come the Apocalypse who isn't a JW.

I'm glad I left that cult before I suffered lasting damage. I might have refused a blood transfusion and died.

Many of us don't consider Jehovah's witnesses to be Christian. I guess I missed the passage in the Bible that states jw's can speak for God.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I wasn't offering my view as fact but seeking guidance as to whether that view doesn't comport with a lot of the, at least so called, Christianity I have seen. I would welcome your opinion. Did I present it incorrectly or describe in a way that does not reflect something typically suggested to be Christian by perhaps misguided Christians themselves?

I have some problem with Greenman's possibly sensible opinion you should just let the ignorant believe in their ignorance even when that is clearly bad for them. I am partial to the notion there are truths and there are fictions and that people have different levels of understanding and that those who know should tell those who don't, even if only because an unexamined life isn't worth living, or so I've heard. Naturally, there is always a risk one does such things our of self flattering arrogance, but hey! If the blind weren't leading the blind in the first place, who would need saving.

My understanding is that Christians have the responsibility to teach those seeking knowledge not, to try and convert people against their will. We also do not have the authority to tell people they are going to hell if they don't believe as we do.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You seem to have an odd view of what it means to be a Christian.

I think many many Christian's have an odd view of what it means to be Christian's. In fact, denominations of Christian's can't even agree.