Looking for CPU Recommendations

[anelectricmind]

Hi All,

My trusty-old Q6600 @ 3.4ghz died on me a few weeks ago. Actually, it appears to be the motherboard, but I decided to use that as an excuse to refresh my system. (This system was about 6 years old)

I decided to stay with Intel. I am only looking for CPU-MOBO-RAM as the rest is still working. I own a AMD 6870 as a graphic card and old Corsair H50 water cooler and a Corsair HX620w PSU. I intent to buy 8GB of RAM. As much as I had alot of fun overclocking my CPUS (Q6600 @ 3.4ghz, E8400 before that @ 4.0ghz), I do not feel the need to overclock anymore.

I already bought the motherboard (found a great price on a MSI Z97). I still have the RAM and the CPU to buy. And this is where I don't know what to do.

My main use would be browsing, programming (web programming .NET mainly) audio and video encoding (no editing), a bit of PC Virtualization, and... gaming (oh, and I can get PCSX2 running, that would be great!)

Now, this is where it gets complicated. I am trying to reclaim my youth (yes, I am old) and hope to clear my library of games. About 120 games overall. Ranging from 15 years old games to more recent games (nothing that came out after mid-2014 I think). I'll try to put a quick list later.

For now, the most "demanding" games according to my old specs would be GTA IV, Dead Island, Max Payne 3, the Hitman Series (Absolution amongst them), F.E.A.R. 3., Simcity, The Tropico Series (I am a sucker for that serie) They may not be the most demanding ones according to today's standards.

Now, I am kinda on a budget. I decided not to spend more than 400$ CAD on the refresh. I have about 300$ for both the RAM and the CPU. The less I will spend, the better I will feel. Most of the RAM I could find retails around 75$ (let's say 85$ with taxes and shipping). So that leaves me around 200-225$ CAD for a CPU.

I have been doing some research and came up with a few CPUs :

- i3-4160
- i3-4360
- i3-4370 (can be found at the same price as the i3-4360)
- i5-4460

Right now, I can't justify the need to spend on an i5 unless I can find it at a price point close to the i3. Do I need it? I don't know. This is wishful thinking as my Game Librairy may be sitting on a (virtual) shelf for another 5-10 years or so, and by then I'll probably sell everything.

And then, do the 40+$CAD difference between the 4160 and 4360 is worth it?

As of futureproofing this purchase, I don't know. Like I said, I may never come close to play the "high-end" games on my list. Maybe I will want to play Watch Dogs and GTA V in an almost distant-future. Will I ever have time? I don't know.

So would be your recommendations for my needs?

Sorry for the long post...

Thanks everyone!

 

[NTMBK]

i3-4370 looks like a good choice, should keep you going just fine with those games!

 

[anelectricmind]

i3-4370 looks like a good choice, should keep you going just fine with those games!

I think so. Like I said, I don't think I use anything that is worth a Quad-Core anymore and I've read that the best i3 can come really close to the cheapest i5 in performance.

I don't think any of my games are multi-threading intensive, so a i3 would fit the bill.

As of playing any future release of my favorite games (like GTAV), well... the girlfriend almost offered to buy a current-gen console to replace my PC (as I have a laptop, a server and a HTPC to fill the other requirements).

Now... is the jump between the i3-4160 (which still seems highly recommended for budget gaming) and the i3-43[6|7]0 is worth it? I know about the 100mhz speed increase and the 3MB vs 4MB L3 cache.

Still debating if it's worth it.

Thanks.

 

[anelectricmind]

Oh. Forgot to mention.

Like I said I have an old Corsair H50. I have read that there is a way for this cooler to fit on a LGA1150 even though there is no back plate for the LGA 1150 with that version.

So I may need to buy a decent cooler to fit in an Antec 902. Unless the stock cooler is smooth and quiet.

 

[crashtech]

Where are the quad core police, they clearly haven't seen this thread.

Joking aside, I like the fast i3 for an all-around system. But you do have to keep it in "fighting trim," and eliminate excess unwanted CPU hogs that accumulate in the background. If you do regular maintenance, and don't expect to run anything demanding at the same time as your game, a fast i3 can do spectacularly well for a dual core.

 

[anelectricmind]

Where are the quad core police, they clearly haven't seen this thread.

Joking aside, I like the fast i3 for an all-around system. But you do have to keep it in "fighting trim," and eliminate excess unwanted CPU hogs that accumulate in the background. If you do regular maintenance, and don't expect to run anything demanding at the same time as your game, a fast i3 can do spectacularly well for a dual core.

I usually don't need intensive background threads while gaming. In that case, sometimes, I run those apps on my server.

Forgot to mention : I run my games on a DELL u2410, so I usually game at 1920 x 1200. And if I have at least a constant 30fps, I am a happy camper.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

The i3-4370 seems like it's in a no man's land being only $42CAD cheaper than an i5-4460. I'd choose between the i3-4160 and the i5-4460.

 

[anelectricmind]

The i3-4370 seems like it's in a no man's land being only $42CAD cheaper than an i5-4460. I'd choose between the i3-4160 and the i5-4460.

Thank you. I like your comment in a way that I can save about 50CAD by choosing the i3-4160 over the i3-4360/i3-4370 and almost seeing no difference.

I know 100 mhz doesn't make a huge difference. What about the L3 Cache? If I remember correctly, L3 is slower than L2 and is shared by the cores and not as important as L2...

 

[RussianSensation]

Where are the quad core police, they clearly haven't seen this thread.

Considering his last system lasted him 6 years, there is little reason to recommend the higher end Core i3s here assuming he keeps his new rig for another 5-6 years. What's $25-50 extra on a Core i5 over 5-6 years? $5-10 per year. :thumbsup: The chance that a Core i3 will bottleneck him in games over the next 5-6 years is 100%, then he'll go out and buy an i5/i7. Why do that? Remember all those gamers who advocated E8400-8600 over Q6600/6700/Q9550? Ya, they were all wrong. Spend the $60 extra now and enjoy peace of mind for 5-6 years.

I have been doing some research and came up with a few CPUs :

- i3-4160
- i3-4360
- i3-4370 (can be found at the same price as the i3-4360)
- i5-4460

The only 2 processors that make sense here are the i3-4160 at $145 CDN or the i5-4460 at $230 CDN.

4370 is automatically eliminated since it's only $25 less expensive than the i5-4460. $185 i3-4360 is automatically eliminated since it's barely faster than the i3-4160. If you are on a tight budget, get the i3-4160. However, if you think you will play Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed series, GTA V, Battlefield games, Crysis series, etc. in the next 5 years, get the i5. The alternative is you could get the i3-4160 today and then in 3 years if you get to these modern games, sell it and pick up a used i5-4670K/4690K/i7 4770K/4790K, etc. That could also be a good strategy.

 

[anelectricmind]

Considering his last system last him 6 years, there is absolutely 0 reason to recommend a Core i3 here assuming he keeps his new rig for another 4-5 years. What's $60 extra on a Core i5 over 5-6 years? $10-12 per year. :thumbsup: The chance that a Core i3 will bottleneck him in games over the next 4-5 years is 100%, then he'll go out and buy an i5/i7. Why do that? Spend the $60 extra now and enjoy peace of mind for 5-6 years.

I have to agree with you... partially. Yes... I tend to keep my system for a long time (although, I did change my video card two or three times : 4870 - 4870 Crossfire and 6870, and my cpu twice : E8400 - Q6600). And yes, your math is pretty good. What's 60$ more over 5-6 years!

the thing is... I don't think I'll be gaming in 5 years. I already have a crapload of games I'd like to play and finish, and besides the two games mentionned in the original Post (GTA V and Watch Dogs), I don't think I will ever buy a high-end/high-profile game ever. I think I am slowly drifting towards the casual gamer category.

And again... I don't think feel it's wise to spend 225$ on a CPU that may end up being used to browse the web and do web programming. If I feel an i3 will get me through most of the games I have in my library, then I'd be happier not spending that money on a CPU. (I think that the AAA games I have in my library are about 3-4 years old. Nothing very current)

 

[anelectricmind]

4370 is automatically eliminated since it's only $25 less expensive than the i5-4460. $185 i3-4360 is automatically eliminated since it's barely faster than the i3-4160. If you are on a tight budget, get the i3-4160. However, if you think you will play Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed series, GTA V, Battlefield games, Crysis series, etc. in the next 5 years, get the i5.

Sorry... Seems like I missed part of your message.

I think the real dilemna I had was i3-4360 vs i3-4160 as I still can't make sense of spending on a i5... and as far as gaming I am very unsure of my 5-year plan. (Kids, home, etc).

... and in 5 years, my son will turn 13, he'll probably be more of a console gamer than a PC gamer. If he takes interest in computers, i'll let him build is first rig and play on his...

 

[anelectricmind]

RussianSensation,

I must be tired. Every time I read your message, I discover new info. My apologies if I sound incoherent.

I was thinking of taking that road : buy the i3-4160, save a few dollars for now, have a decent computers to run the games that I currently have. I'll see in five years what I will do.

Sometimes, at the end of a socket lifecycle, some of it's CPUs can be found for a bargain. That's what I did when I bought my Q6600 over my E8400.

 

[MrTeal]

Considering his last system last him 6 years, there is little reason to recommend the higher end Core i3s here assuming he keeps his new rig for another 5-6 years. What's $25-50 extra on a Core i5 over 5-6 years? $5-10 per year. :thumbsup: The chance that a Core i3 will bottleneck him in games over the next 5-6 years is 100%, then he'll go out and buy an i5/i7. Why do that? Remember all those gamers who advocated E8400-8600 over Q6600/6700/Q9550? Ya, they were all wrong. Spend the $60 extra now and enjoy peace of mind for 5-6 years.

The only 2 processors that make sense here are the i3-4160 at $145 CDN or the i5-4460 at $230 CDN.

4370 is automatically eliminated since it's only $25 less expensive than the i5-4460. $185 i3-4360 is automatically eliminated since it's barely faster than the i3-4160. If you are on a tight budget, get the i3-4160. However, if you think you will play Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed series, GTA V, Battlefield games, Crysis series, etc. in the next 5 years, get the i5. The alternative is you could get the i3-4160 today and then in 3 years if you get to these modern games, sell it and pick up a used i5-4670K/4690K/i7 4770K/4790K, etc. That could also be a good strategy.

I think it's debatable that either CPU will bottleneck him in games if he doesn't upgrade the HD6870.
That being said, going with the quad core seems no brainer given the choices. Encoding already benefits from multiple threads and compilers are going to continue to be optimized to support them, so you should see a real benefit to the additional cores. You're spending $400 on a platform, and the MB and RAM make up a fixed portion of that. Mights as well spend the extra 10% to get a bigger performance increase.

Your other option is to look at picking up a used Haswell chip that fits in your budget.

 

[crashtech]

Gamegpu.ru has an i3-4330 in their lineup now, so it's not hard to see how the Haswell i3 does in games. I can't really recommend Anandtech Bench until they start including minimums, which is usually where a weak CPU will reveal itself. In the majority of cases, the i3-4330 gives very playable minimums, though in the reviews for some of the older games the OP plays, it is likely not represented.

Also, since the OP is not averse to swapping CPUs, and Intel CPUs hold their value pretty well, this isn't even that big of a deal.

 

[Ketchup]

I also don't see getting an i3 unless you are getting something to 'hold you over.' It's not a bad chip per se, but games within the next 6 years (just a guess based on the last chip) may make you wish you had spent a little more for the i5.

But this is totally based on you. As you can tell from my sig, my 660 has a couple years on it, and still plenty powerful for the games I play.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I was going to say you are crazy for not going with an i5, but as you are the kind of guy who is happy to pick up a second hand CPU later down the track, then it won't hurt you to get the i3 and the cheapest i3.

 

[ehume]

Be sure to add in the cost of an SSD. I use i3's on two of my work computers. What bogs them down is the spinning disk. Right now here in the US you can get in on sales for 250GB SSD's. If you r-e-a-l-l-y can't afford one, go with a 120GB on sale. These make a huge difference in your user experience -- more than the difference in cores.

Having used double cores with no HT, I'm thinking that a 2-core CPU might be OK if it has HT. But I'd worry about the SSD first.

Any SSD -- if it works -- is enormously better than a HD.

 

[anelectricmind]

Be sure to add in the cost of an SSD. I use i3's on two of my work computers. What bogs them down is the spinning disk. Right now here in the US you can get in on sales for 250GB SSD's. If you r-e-a-l-l-y can't afford one, go with a 120GB on sale. These make a huge difference in your user experience -- more than the difference in cores.

Having used double cores with no HT, I'm thinking that a 2-core CPU might be OK if it has HT. But I'd worry about the SSD first.

Any SSD -- if it works -- is enormously better than a HD.

My old rig has a Samsung 250 EVO and it's still working very well. (Coupled with a WD Blue 1TB). No worries there.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I say go with an i3, be different! Lots of people in here love to point out how well they do in games, but then never recommend that anyone actually buy one.

If I am stuck with a locked Intel CPU, I'd almost rather have a high-clocked i3 than an i5. Make that hyperthreading work! Yeah baby! Work it!

Seriously it sounds to me like you are not looking to push your CPU that hard, OP. If you were happy with your Q6600 before it croaked, I am sure you will find that an i3 will be cheaper than an i5 and better than the Q6600. I personally would only go for an i5 if I could find a good deal on an unlocked one . . . the locked ones with good clockspeeds seem too darn expensive.

 

[escrow4]

6yrs, i5 minimum. Buy a non K 4690 which via MCE can hit 3.9GHz all cores (if that board supports MCE). I use a 4770 non K to watch porn er browse (HA!) the web simply because I will run this box into the ground before upgrading. An i3 is a halfway house I wouldn't buy for longevity.

And did everyone miss the video/audio encoding in OPs post? Even transcoding the cores will help. You also want at least 8GB RAM minimum. I've played all those games except the sims (either) and Hitman, they will run on a dual, but I'd still get a quad. Absolution is also well threaded.

 

[RussianSensation]

RussianSensation,

I must be tired. Every time I read your message, I discover new info. My apologies if I sound incoherent.

I was thinking of taking that road : buy the i3-4160, save a few dollars for now, have a decent computers to run the games that I currently have. I'll see in five years what I will do.

Sometimes, at the end of a socket lifecycle, some of it's CPUs can be found for a bargain. That's what I did when I bought my Q6600 over my E8400.

No worries. I basically tried to give you all the different paths you could take but I wanted to help you narrow the choice between an i5 and the i3-4160. The other i3 processors are not worth considering unless you can get a great deal on them. Basically for casual use the i3-4160 is good enough and the extra 200-300mhz in the upper i3 models will not help you. You would be better off saving that $ for a GPU upgrade or that i5 swap in 3+ years should you decide to start gaming more. As you have described, if you are comfortable selling your old CPU and getting a used i5/i7 in 3-4 years as you did with your E8400-> Q6600 swap, there is nothing wrong with going cheap i3 and then trying to find a used i7 4770K/4790K in 3-4 years. This basically saved you $ upfront now that you don't want to overspend since you aren't sure you'll use the i5.

However, I do agree with other posters that you should add up the total cost of your upgrades before you just compare a $145 CPU to a $230 one. For example, if your total upgrade is $600, then getting an i5 is $685 (so just 14% more expensive). In other words, the incremental cost over your total upgrade cost is not that much, compared to just looking at a $145 CPU vs. a $230 one and seeing that the latter costs 59% more.

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Fro $300-400 you could get a nice combo 2500 K with a board and memory, can over clock the snot out of it. Use it for a few years, then toss it on a shelf. (Russian happy now)?

 

[TheELF]

I3 is within ~10% of an I5 in games ,with games nowadays already using a high percentage of the quad,look at gamegpu's core load graphs,so even in 5-6 years it will not be worse than the ~10% it is now since the i5 is already being used close to the max,if anything ,mantle has shown us that if dx12 catches on and the graphics driver thread disappears the i3 might even catch up with the i5 in future games(it's for cpu limited scenarios remember? ) .

As for the games,look at how they play on a celeron,the i3 will be the bomb.
hitman absolution
gtav

Even the converting can be done in the background while surfing or doing anything with your PC,even while gaming.
video converting while playing gta IV while screen recording ... on a celeron

I5 will be a nice luxury for 3d rendering, video converting etc but if you don't do it professionally, where time is money,it's just that luxury.

 

[jji7skyline]

Fro $300-400 you could get a nice combo 2500 K with a board and memory, can over clock the snot out of it. Use it for a few years, then toss it on a shelf. (Russian happy now)?

He said he's not really interested in overclocking anymore so I don't think it'd be worth buying a 2500K. In fact, I wouldn't recommend a 2500K to anyone anymore unless they were under a very strict budget and could find a combo for less than $200.

I think the i3-4160 is the sweet spot if you want to spend as little money as possible. The i5 is nice and all, but a lot more expensive. The i3 has a high enough base clock speed and the four threads should be enough for all but the most demanding games/tasks.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I think an i3 would do the job, but I also think an i5 is worth the extra cost. Even a locked low end i5 has turbo so will come within about 10% of the clockspeed of the fastest i3. I also agree with the other poster who said you should look at the total system cost rather than just the cpu cost. in that light 50.00 more is minimal. For the vast majority of users. i think an i3 or even a pentium is fine, but since the op is going to be gaming and doing some other fairly intensive tasks, I think the i5 is a safer choice.

edit: hopefully you got a really good deal on that motherboard. Otherwise, you would have been better served to get a non-z mb and put the savings toward an i5 instead of the i3.