Looking for a "Pseudo" HTPC

[assassin24]

I think you should check out some of the stuff Dell has in their outlets, since you can get some really nice deals. Heres the Dell studio hybird

It looks like these systems did not get the best reviews on a lot of the websites when I did a quick google search. What has your experience been with these?

 

[Cassian]

Well I don't have any personal experience with these systems but if I wanted a HTPC. I'd probably get one of these. This review doesn't seem so bad.

http://www.desktopreview.com/default.asp?newsID=453

 

[assassin24]

So what do you guys think of these parts for a mini-itx HTPC?

I upgraded a bit on the CPU. Take a look at it and let me know what you think...

1. ZOTAC GF9300-G-E LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300 HDMI Mini ITX Intel Motherboard $129.99
2. LG DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS50 $28.99
3. APEX MI-100BK Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply $54.99
4. Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 $55.99
5. G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ $48.99
6. Intel Pentium E6300 Wolfdale 2.8GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E6300 $80.99
7. SILVERSTONE NT07-775 90mm CPU Cooler $18.85

8. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS $30.00 (not included in below price)

Total is $443.78 shipped.

 

[Decembermouse]

can probably done for a tad bit cheaper but I'd need to Egg it, won't have time till later :\

 

[assassin24]

can probably done for a tad bit cheaper but I'd need to Egg it, won't have time till later :\

Please let me know when you get a chance. Thanks!

 

[Decembermouse]

The GeForce 9300 motherboard has pretty poor memory access but in terms of gaming and pure GPU power it is slightly more powerful than the Radeon 3200 (AMD's 790GX chipset). The 9300 would do just fine. You can get it cheaper than $129.99 though (think $89.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-019-_-Product

You can save $2 on the DVD burner if you got to Newegg and get the cheapest one they have, it's a Samsung. I've used it, it's nice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151197

Case and power supply, with a 300W PSU in case you need that much power ($35):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811128052

I would actually recommend the Western Digital Green series instead of the Blue ones. I use the 1TB one as my main OS drive, and it's very responsive even when loading games or large files. It costs a dollar less than the Blue, and uses half the electricity:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136358

You'll want memory with latencies of 4-4-4-12 instead of 5-5-5-15. This might be useful as the GeForce 9300 motherboards aren't as good with memory access as the AMD chipsets are. I would grab two of these guys:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231088

Don't bother with the Pentium E6300 processor. Get the E5200 ($64.50). It's the exact same core (Wolfdale) and on stock voltage, you can overclock the E5200 to 3.33GHz, which is way faster than the fastest Socket 775 Wolfwale Pentium Dual Core, the E6500. I'm not saying to overclock the snot out of your E5200, but it's only 300MHz below the E6300. That's a very tiny overclock for Wolfwales. Don't think of it as 'stressing' the E5200, because it's the same exact chip as in the E6300 (please see here: http://techgage.com/article/intel_pentium_dual-core_e5200/11... heck, on this Zotac GeForce 9300 motherboard people overclock Pentium 2180's to 3.1GHz: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15690/12). They will both handle 3.33Ghz, let alone 2.8GHz:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116072

Nice cooler. If you weren't overclocking, I'd say stick to the stock cooler. And either way, make sure it'll fit in a Mini-ITX case.

$90 + $27 + $35 + $55 + $52 + $64.50 + $19 + $30
total $372.50 if I'm not mistaken, so you save $71.28... and get a better PSU, memory, quieter/cooler/lower power usage hard drive that'll still be more than quick enough, and voila! Heck, I want one of these builds *pout*

 

[wiretap]

For the uses he described, the memory timings and 'memory access' aren't going to make a difference so he might as well save the $5. I recommended a low power Wolfdale core to him before, but he swapped it out for the e6300 since it's a tad faster at stock clocks.. regardless, he isn't going to need much CPU power/speed and there is no sense in overclocking. There's also no need for that large of a case with an bigger garbage power supply the mini-ITX build listed isn't even going to draw over 100-something watts. I built a similar one and it only pulled around 60w idle and 95w at load. (measured using a kil-o-watt -- somewhat reliable)

 

[Decembermouse]

True.

Any PSU supplied with a case is going to be crap. Might as well have one that claims to be capable of 300W than one capable of 200W though, even though he won't be pushing either of those envelopes. The closer you come to the limit of a PSU on a constant basis, the less time it will last and less heat it should create. Assuming all other things are equal. Plus, in general, it's better to overshoot... especially since overshooting in this case is cheaper. And since neither of these is exactly OCZ Fatal1ty quality, knowhutimean? The case I suggested is a Mini-ITX case. Not sure on dimensions of that compared to the one he's thinking of, but it depends on how important the size is to him and if one's really that much bigger than the other.

Memory access isn't huge, but at half of what the 790GX is capable of, maybe at some point it would become a bottleneck. Personally, I think it'd be worth the extra $3... I mean, why not??

CPU power isn't going to be important, true (he should do Folding!). I merely wanted to illustrate that one doesn't need to spend more on a CPU these days if a cheaper variant is available. And if he has any concerns that it wouldn't be fast enough, then that's covered as well

 

[assassin24]

The GeForce 9300 motherboard has pretty poor memory access but in terms of gaming and pure GPU power it is slightly more powerful than the Radeon 3200 (AMD's 790GX chipset). The 9300 would do just fine. You can get it cheaper than $129.99 though (think $89.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-019-_-Product

If I am not mistaken this is a micro-atx board.

Any other thoughts or suggestions on a mini-itx board?

 

[assassin24]

I'm also open to any other case alternatives that you might have.

Preference is black to match my other gear but I'm flexible...

 

[assassin24]

Also, any benefit from choosing 4GB ram over 2GB? Or how about one 2GB stick to make room for additional later if needed?

 

[assassin24]

Made your recommended changes and here is my current cart:

(note that this is 1 stick of 2 GB ram. also kept the same case as before)

SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model TS-H663B/UOAH $26.99
APEX MI-100BK Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply $54.99
Western Digital Caviar Green WD5000AADS 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 $54.99
G.SKILL 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory $44.99
ZOTAC GF9300-G-E LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300 HDMI Mini ITX Intel Motherboard $139.99
Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $64.50
SILVERSTONE NT07-775 90mm CPU Cooler $18.85

Subtotal: $407.39
Shipping: $25.69
Grand Total: $433.08

 

[Decembermouse]

Oh shoot, you're right on the motherboard. Sorry about that. Have you considered though getting a case that's a bit bigger? You could get the same chipset, this GeForce 9300, for a lot less plus a PCI-e slot. It's the difference between a square that's 6.7 inches per side, or 9.6 inches per side. I don't know the space you're working with, if you plan to display the computer tower next to the TV or what, or if you're trying to fit it into one of the cubbyhole spaces in your TV stand. Totally up to you- if it was me, I'd probably take the savings and get the slightly larger motherboard and save some dollars and find a way to fit the slightly-less-tiny computer . I was just looking for ways to save a buck, and accidentally found a Micro-ATX board :\

Yeah, I'm sure you wouldn't have any issues if you just got 2GB of memory. Keep in mind that the GeForce 9300 will borrow some of that as shared memory, but you should be ok as long as you don't have too many startup tasks. And if it doesn't feel like enough, just toss another stick in later. Good idea with the one stick of 2GB. Grab stuff with 4-4-4-12 latencies ($44.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ue&Order=PRICE

Case (with PSU) for less, also black:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154091

Also if you buy that Mini-ITX motherboard now, there is a $15 MIR.

 

[assassin24]

Oh shoot, you're right on the motherboard. Sorry about that. Have you considered though getting a case that's a bit bigger? You could get the same chipset, this GeForce 9300, for a lot less plus a PCI-e slot. It's the difference between a square that's 6.7 inches per side, or 9.6 inches per side. I don't know the space you're working with, if you plan to display the computer tower next to the TV or what, or if you're trying to fit it into one of the cubbyhole spaces in your TV stand. Totally up to you- if it was me, I'd probably take the savings and get the slightly larger motherboard and save some dollars and find a way to fit the slightly-less-tiny computer . I was just looking for ways to save a buck, and accidentally found a Micro-ATX board :\

Yeah, I'm sure you wouldn't have any issues if you just got 2GB of memory. Keep in mind that the GeForce 9300 will borrow some of that as shared memory, but you should be ok as long as you don't have too many startup tasks. And if it doesn't feel like enough, just toss another stick in later. Good idea with the one stick of 2GB. Grab stuff with 4-4-4-12 latencies ($44.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ue&Order=PRICE

Case (with PSU) for less, also black:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154091

Also if you buy that Mini-ITX motherboard now, there is a $15 MIR.

Thanks again! I have a 5-6 yr old micro-atx now (made from a bunch of even older parts) and it really doesn't even fit in my AV rack.

The case is 16.5" Deep and if you throw in another 2" behind it for cabling you have over a foot and a half. Way too deep. So that's why I like the mini-itx.

I'm also thinking about just going with 4 GB of RAM. I know that I might get by with only 2GB but imo a little extra on RAM is almost always worth it.

Oh, and I snagged a copy of Windows 7 Pro for $31 shipped with the .edu special going on!

 

[Decembermouse]

Sounds good to me!

The Zotac BIOS should let you turn up the GeForce 9300 a bit. The GeForce 9400 runs at 580 MHz core / 1400 MHz shader, and the 9300 is 450 MHz core / 1200 MHz shader. It's the same chip, so you could easily push it to 9400 levels. Some mobo manufacturer was doing this because the 9300 chips are better, and setting them to run at the same specs as the 9400, making it cheaper for customers. Forget who is doing this at the moment, but if you want some more video performance for basic gaming or Blu-Ray / other HD video, then the 9300 will be eager to run a bit quicker.

 

[assassin24]

Sounds good to me!

The Zotac BIOS should let you turn up the GeForce 9300 a bit. The GeForce 9400 runs at 580 MHz core / 1400 MHz shader, and the 9300 is 450 MHz core / 1200 MHz shader. It's the same chip, so you could easily push it to 9400 levels. Some mobo manufacturer was doing this because the 9300 chips are better, and setting them to run at the same specs as the 9400, making it cheaper for customers. Forget who is doing this at the moment, but if you want some more video performance for basic gaming or Blu-Ray / other HD video, then the 9300 will be eager to run a bit quicker.

Very good to know. Thanks yet again!