Look at the names..

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Stupid people. If you want to burn a flag, buy it yourself and do it on your own property. However, the fact that it was a flag burned shouldn't affect their sentence or charges against them. They should simply be charged with arson.

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Dont like the flag, then get the ****** out of our country and go back to your little ****** holes you call middle eastern countries

I do not expect to ever see you complain about anything in this country, unless you are doing it from beyond our borders. Advice like yours goes two ways.

Originally posted by: paulxcook
There are things that are more blatantly anti-American than burning the flag, but not that many. I was under the impression that any non-citizen that committed a crime on US soil would be automatically deported.

As for the American citizen, he burned private property, so he should be charged.

In a sense, it is also very American. We enjoy having many personal freedoms, and one of them is the right to express extreme discontent for the direction the country may be going. If that expression consists of burning a flag to make this point, so be it. The one quote I like concerning this is one I saw in someone's sig on this forum:
"When you no longer can burn the flag, maybe you should."

When your right to that form of expression is taken away, that is in direct opposition of one of our most basic rights. When that happens, there is definite cause to protest.

Just don't burn someone else's flag.

yup.

Great points

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Mill
I would like to know more details before making a judgment. The article didn't really make sense to me. I need to know why they decided to burn it and whose house it was. They might have been drunk and did it to a friend's house.

People are getting way too ramped up over this just because the people had foreign names. Grow up. There are lots of foreigners here -- including Arabs or Muslims -- and you can't deport anyone on that basis -- nor should you.

Let's wait until we see their motive and what happened to the property before going nuts.

Wrong....if you are not a citizen, we can deport you for any reason, or no reason, it's our country. Not to say they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be for this, just that we can.

 

[eits]

oops... wrong thread

 

[nweaver]

I'm pretty Libertarian in views. I think that if someone wants to burn the American flag, the Canada flag, the bible, or themselves, the government should just stay out of it. It's my ultimate right to burn one of the biggest symbols of our country if I feel our leadership is shaming it, or defying what the founding fathers intended. It's not my right given to me by the government, it's an inalienable (sic?) human right. The day I can't tell my mayor/congressmen/president they are an idiot will be a huge nail in the coffin. Restricting the right to burn the flag goes against everything the flag stands for.

Having said that, I'm a patriotic American, and my, and my family, stand for EVERY flag in a parade, I love the flag, and would never desecrate it in that way. I think that sitting in your lawn chair while the flag goes past is just as bad as dropping it on the ground or burning it. You are disrespecting the flag, our founding fathers, and our armed forces imho.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Mill
I would like to know more details before making a judgment. The article didn't really make sense to me. I need to know why they decided to burn it and whose house it was. They might have been drunk and did it to a friend's house.

People are getting way too ramped up over this just because the people had foreign names. Grow up. There are lots of foreigners here -- including Arabs or Muslims -- and you can't deport anyone on that basis -- nor should you.

Let's wait until we see their motive and what happened to the property before going nuts.

Wrong....if you are not a citizen, we can deport you for any reason, or no reason, it's our country. Not to say they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be for this, just that we can.

No, they are here on valid visas. You would have to have a valid reason to cancel their visas and to deport them. I'm sorry, but you are simply 100% wrong. They were given entry to the country, and they were given a time period to be here. You cannot simply arrest them and deport them. It does not work that way.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
The US Citizen involved should be prosecuted for arson and destruction of private property, the other two should be deported back to their countries of origin since they are guests of the US and obviously don't appreciate the opportunity they have been given.

It's interesting that people condone the burning of the US flag as freedom of speech, yet if a flag of Israel or Saudi Arabia were burned on the same flag pole we'd have a hate-crime with Al Sharpton parked on the front lawn giving a press conference. The same people who like to scream "freedom of speech" and support burning of the flag in one breath are the same ones who have shoved political correctness and anti hate-speech legislation down our throats. Ooh the hypocrisy of the left...

it's the reason behind it, dumbass.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point.

In other words, you feel that certain other groups (Jews or Arabs) are entitled to protection of their cultural or religious symbols, but not US citizens?

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Mill
I would like to know more details before making a judgment. The article didn't really make sense to me. I need to know why they decided to burn it and whose house it was. They might have been drunk and did it to a friend's house.

People are getting way too ramped up over this just because the people had foreign names. Grow up. There are lots of foreigners here -- including Arabs or Muslims -- and you can't deport anyone on that basis -- nor should you.

Let's wait until we see their motive and what happened to the property before going nuts.

Wrong....if you are not a citizen, we can deport you for any reason, or no reason, it's our country. Not to say they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be for this, just that we can.

No, they are here on valid visas. You would have to have a valid reason to cancel their visas and to deport them. I'm sorry, but you are simply 100% wrong. They were given entry to the country, and they were given a time period to be here. You cannot simply arrest them and deport them. It does not work that way.

I believe committing a crime in most countries is grounds for termination of a visa and immediate deportation. Why should this be an exception, arson and destruction of private property are serious crimes.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Dont like the flag, then get the ****** out of our country and go back to your little ****** holes you call middle eastern countries

No way dude, I'm burning your flag next :laugh:

College kids destroying property, what's new?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Mill
I would like to know more details before making a judgment. The article didn't really make sense to me. I need to know why they decided to burn it and whose house it was. They might have been drunk and did it to a friend's house.

People are getting way too ramped up over this just because the people had foreign names. Grow up. There are lots of foreigners here -- including Arabs or Muslims -- and you can't deport anyone on that basis -- nor should you.

Let's wait until we see their motive and what happened to the property before going nuts.

Wrong....if you are not a citizen, we can deport you for any reason, or no reason, it's our country. Not to say they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be for this, just that we can.

No, they are here on valid visas. You would have to have a valid reason to cancel their visas and to deport them. I'm sorry, but you are simply 100% wrong. They were given entry to the country, and they were given a time period to be here. You cannot simply arrest them and deport them. It does not work that way.

I believe committing a crime in most countries is grounds for termination of a visa and immediate deportation. Why should this be an exception, arson and destruction of private property are serious crimes.

I'm not saying it is an exception, but I am saying that you do not know what you are talking about. You are simply wrong. It would be good for you to do some research on the topic and get back to me. You cannot simply arrest someone and then have them immediately deported. It has to be a crime of a certain severity, they typically have to be convicted, face a removal/deportation order, and then a hearing if they choose to challenge it, and then they have appeals.

Rapid deportation would only happen with someone who had prior crimes and/or already had a removal order. They would face a hearing, and without a skilled attorney they could be deported quickly. In this case the chance of a deportation or removal order are very slim. Depending, of course, on what they are convicted of, the skill of their attorney, and what they choose to fight.

I'm not surprised that you do not know about the process. Most people do not.

 

[Mill]

List of crimes that can get you deported.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
The US Citizen involved should be prosecuted for arson and destruction of private property, the other two should be deported back to their countries of origin since they are guests of the US and obviously don't appreciate the opportunity they have been given.

It's interesting that people condone the burning of the US flag as freedom of speech, yet if a flag of Israel or Saudi Arabia were burned on the same flag pole we'd have a hate-crime with Al Sharpton parked on the front lawn giving a press conference. The same people who like to scream "freedom of speech" and support burning of the flag in one breath are the same ones who have shoved political correctness and anti hate-speech legislation down our throats. Ooh the hypocrisy of the left...

it's the reason behind it, dumbass.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point.

In other words, you feel that certain other groups (Jews or Arabs) are entitled to protection of their cultural or religious symbols, but not US citizens?

?? please tell me you're joking and you're really not as stupid as you seem...

being american isn't defined by race, religion, or anything discernible. being jewish or arab is.

also, you are protected by freedom of speech when spouting off hateful or non-pc things or burning any flags. it's not a hate crime.

"american" = very broad
"arabs" = pretty specific
"jews" = pretty specific

there's a big difference.

but, whatever... you're just going to try and come back with some weak-ass argument and i really don't feel like trying to teach you the difference between "death to america" and "death to jews" for 3 pages. so, whatever... you think what you want way out over in ignorantville and i'll think what i want over here.

 

[PHiuR]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
the charges seem sensible. the only reason this is news is because of the names.

boooya!

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: eitsuh, no? my judgment isn't being clouded whatsoever. if common sense and open-mindedness is considered having clouded judgment, then i'd gladly let my mind storm.

yes, i'm half persian... the other half is white. i was born in michigan and raised in the united states my entire life. i've visited iran once when i was a kid.

where was i trying to justify anything? i was criticizing the article. that doesn't mean i was at all trying to justify these peoples' actions. in fact, i even said it was stupid as hell for them to burn someone else's flag... so, saying that i'm failing miserably at trying to justify their actions is pretty motherfvcking astute of you.

You are justifying it by glossing over the fact they committed a crime. It's not stupid, it's criminal, and a felony at that. It's not "just burning a flag".

your insinuation is offensive to me. i don't make insinuations that you're some backwoods redneck just because you're from texas.

Right, because questioning someone's possible bias is offensive. If this somehow had to do with Texas (say it was a Texas flag), then yeah I might be a bit bias because I'm from here. It was just a question, don't get your panties in a wad.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
The US Citizen involved should be prosecuted for arson and destruction of private property, the other two should be deported back to their countries of origin since they are guests of the US and obviously don't appreciate the opportunity they have been given.

It's interesting that people condone the burning of the US flag as freedom of speech, yet if a flag of Israel or Saudi Arabia were burned on the same flag pole we'd have a hate-crime with Al Sharpton parked on the front lawn giving a press conference. The same people who like to scream "freedom of speech" and support burning of the flag in one breath are the same ones who have shoved political correctness and anti hate-speech legislation down our throats. Ooh the hypocrisy of the left...

it's the reason behind it, dumbass.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point.

In other words, you feel that certain other groups (Jews or Arabs) are entitled to protection of their cultural or religious symbols, but not US citizens?

?? please tell me you're joking and you're really not as stupid as you seem...

being american isn't defined by race, religion, or anything discernible. being jewish or arab is.

also, you are protected by freedom of speech when spouting off hateful or non-pc things or burning any flags. it's not a hate crime.

"american" = very broad
"arabs" = pretty specific
"jews" = pretty specific

there's a big difference.

but, whatever... you're just going to try and come back with some weak-ass argument and i really don't feel like trying to teach you the difference between "death to america" and "death to jews" for 3 pages. so, whatever... you think what you want way out over in ignorantville and i'll think what i want over here.

I'd say 'weak ass' defines your response - I see some regurgitated ideas with no explanation of how you arrived at your conclusions. Feel free to teach if you can stop sputtering long enough to put together a complete thought.

Common language, ancestry (geographic origins) and culture are the common characteristics make up the broad definition of "Arab".

"An Arab is a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic speaking country, who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic speaking peoples"

Are Americans not defined by the same basic 3 components, a common language (english), ancestory (born in or imigrated to the USA) and cultural traditions (all of the things "death to america" spouters love to hate)? Perhaps we are more open to the ideas and traditions of other cultures than others - but that does not make us less valid as a people.

Daniel Perl didn't have his head cut off in the desert with a rusty sword because the people committing the crime didn't like the color of his sandals... and the world trade center was not attacked just because it's a tall building anywhere in the world. They were attacked because they were American citizens or cultural symbols.

Just because the term "American" has a shorter history than Jew or Arab in defining a group of people does not make it any less valid in defining a group hated by some just for being "American." Therefore I disagree with your assessment that a hate crime cannot be committed against someone for being an American.