LOL Anandtech puts smack down on my 5800U for kicks

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

What would you rather ride BFG?

Not sure. Ask the car collector who has a garage full of Ferraris and Porsches but can't stop trying to convince the world what a great car his Morris Minor is, and how it's equal to his other cars when he drives down his two meter drive-way to get his mail.

Whether he's a car collector or not doesn't change the fact that he's also a delusional moron.

I would've done #121 about the 9700Pro when I had one like you,

I challenge you to even find one thread that I started about the 9700 Pro.

Darn it BFG. You didn't tell us about the better rotated grid AA (that doesn't work on alpha textures) or the the AF that performs a little better because it only filters half the angles. Props for the car collector analogy though- although you could have tried to put it in DX9 PS2 terms:

"What would you rather drive at the Indy 500?!?! A 3 cylinder Geo Metro, or a hybrid Toyota Prious?!?!?! The Geo has a top speed of 86mph, the Prious can only go 72!"

Your analogy would have worked for me except for two pretty obvious inconsistencies:
1. The performance of the Morris Minor is no where near the the performance of the Porsches and Ferraris, and there are no speed tests where it wins. Your "to the end of the driveway" isn't very analogous to video card testing though, is it? Nobody rates cars on their performance in 2 meter races. When I post benches that show the 5800U equaling the performance of the 9700Pro at 10X7 and 12X10 4X 8X, those are setting reviewers and gamers consider standards. For your "logic" to work, you'd have to say the Morris Minor is the equivalent of the rest at 0-60, and the quarter mile.
2. The Morris Minor isn't far better than every other car in the world at almost everything cars are usually tested at, but the 5800U is better than every other video card in the world that doesn't have 9700/9800/5900 in it's name.
They are all "cars" however; so kudos for making the analogy uniform at least.

Don't sweat the logic though BFG, why start making sense now? There's a whole new generation of cards coming out next month, you can start getting ready to tell people how Far Cry's 17fps at 1900X1400 4X8X on the X800Pro is superior to the 6800Us 14fps at those same settings, and how all other settings are just butt ugly.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: BFG10K



This would be what, thread number #121 about the 5800U for you Rollo?

Doesn't matter, it never gets old because the 5800U is so cool

Woot! Another fan of the Ultra!

Yeah, it's like the hip-to-be-nerdy thing. The 5800U is gonna be one of the most prized cards ever soon because it was such a milestone...albeit a pretty bad one, but still an important landmark in graphics history.


Hell if I had one I'd pimp the hell out of it. I'd be like "THE HELL WITH YOUR PERFORMANCE! MY CARD IS RARE!"

Think about it - today a camaro would stop the bejeezus out of a classic GTO off the line just because of advances in technology - but everyone and their mother has a camaro, I'd rather have the classic GTO.

In other words, the 5800U is fast becoming like a classic car - a collector's item, hard to find, and cool just to have

 

[Terranboy]

:roll: Come guys. Who cares? The 5800U is a silly looking, loud, hot, bad performing card. The 9700/9800 isn't. My 9800P runs everything smooth as expensive silk (esp UT2004, all setting "Holy sh*tted" on highest, 10x7 and V-sync is on). Whats to argue?

 

[Regs]

This thread is pure ignorance.

You do know they're talking about the architecture for the entire FX line, right? The "darkest 12 months" go beyond the 5800u.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Terranboy
:roll: Come guys. Who cares? The 5800U is a silly looking, loud, hot, bad performing card.

It's not bad performing - it's only about 10% behind it's competition in most games.

And all those reasons you mentioned are precisely why it's so great.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Terranboy

:roll: Come guys. Who cares? The 5800U is a silly looking, loud, hot, bad performing card.

It's not bad performing - it's only about 10% behind it's competition in most games.



And all those reasons you mentioned are precisely why it's so great.

Wow, this thread really took a nose dive after that statement.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Terranboy
:roll: Come guys. Who cares? The 5800U is a silly looking, loud, hot, bad performing card. The 9700/9800 isn't. My 9800P runs everything smooth as expensive silk (esp UT2004, all setting "Holy sh*tted" on highest, 10x7 and V-sync is on). Whats to argue?

You're obviously not an enthusiast. Like Insomniak says, there's something to be said for rare, big and loud.
A new corvette is a superior car to a 1970 Hemi 'Cuda or 440 Six Pack Challenger, but I know which I would rather drive by far.

(mmmm...3 carburetors......smacksmacksmack....Mopar...smacksmack......Hurst pistol grip...smacksmacksmacksmack...)

The 5800Ultra of cars

 

[Terranboy]

Oh, but I am an euthusiast. I'd love to get my hands on a Voodoo5 6000. I had a Voodoo5 5500 at one time. Actually not a bad of a card, but no one else had one which really was the best part. I don't really see the point of collecting a 5800 though. Maybe thats just because I'm not a fan of Nvidia. I like to pull for the underdog.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Terranboy
Maybe thats just because I'm not a fan of Nvidia.

derrr you think?

 

[rbV5]

The 5800Ultra of cars

In your world maybe, the rest of the world says '76 mustang. Nice try though.

But, But its a Cobra! LOL

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Terranboy

Maybe thats just because I'm not a fan of Nvidia.

It took balls to put out the "dustbuster", especially since they had to know it didn't perform as well as the 9700 Pro. Balls that ATI simply does not have, and balls like 3dfx had for even thinking they could sell the Voodoo5 6000. Sure, sometimes this causes them to fall on their ass, but what's not to like about a company with balls? Not only that, if you're an AMD guy, you gotta appreciate what nVidia did for chipsets.

 

[Regs]

I think most who played the devils advocate when the FX's where showing signs of performance discrepancies (10-whatever percent that fits your jolly) will hopefully come to a more understandable consensus. All those 9700/9800 vs 5800/5900 threads were redundant anyways. Arguing over subjective and opinionated reasons eluding facts and taking data of which that could be twisted into so many perspectives.

But the anandtech article helped justify my reason for sticking with ATI through last year. Nothing on the FX line excited me, simply put. Apparently for the fans of Nvidia, they had something to take from the FX line last year. Sorry to be bold, but it just shows that ATI had the better design at the better time.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5

The 5800Ultra of cars

In your world maybe, the rest of the world says '76 mustang. Nice try though.

But, But its a Cobra! LOL

LOL- the rest of the world, or the rest of the ATI fanboys basking in their last few days of having something to talk about? "Proud Catalyst Tester" :roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Terranboy
Oh, but I am an euthusiast. I'd love to get my hands on a Voodoo5 6000. I had a Voodoo5 5500 at one time. Actually not a bad of a card, but no one else had one which really was the best part. I don't really see the point of collecting a 5800 though. Maybe thats just because I'm not a fan of Nvidia. I like to pull for the underdog.

I disagree that you're an enthusiast. Why?

1. The 9800Pro is generic. They had 80%+ of the high end market, last I saw. The 9800Pro is about as "enthusiast" to video cards as Budweiser is to beer.
2. The 5800 is "silly looking"? First of all the 9800Pro is generic looking. If you take 100 different video cards, lay them on a table, the 9800 Pro would be indiscernible to the rest. It could be anything. It should be plain white and say "video card" on the side. The 5800U has a unique, expensive, huge and elaborate cooling system. It stands out, and I've seen a LOT of posts about 9800 owners ditching their generic HSFs for , what-yep, a FLOWFX clone Silencer. I've seen a LOT of posts about people wanting a FlowFX like solution on the 6800s as well. I haven't seen anyone saying, "Dammit! Why didn't they put a little tin fan on the 6800 like the 9800Pro has?!?!"
3. It's loud? Ever heard one? You know the thing about those MP3s you download is how do you know how loud to play your speakers? You hear a vacuum like sound, it's true, but it's no louder than my son's computer with a big OCer HSF on the cpu and a fan on the case. And guess what? It's only audible when you're gaming, and most games have things like car engines, music, explosions, etc that tend to drown out the 5800U. (unless you play w/o sound because those bad ol' noises hurt your sensitive wittle ears?)
Beyond that, enthusiasts who OC have lots of fans in their case if they don't want water in it, and are used to some fan noise.
4. It's "hot"? Since when do enthusiasts have itty bitty cases with inadequate ventilation? Since when do enthusiasts care about some additional heat dissipation because the frequency is cranked up?

No, you say you're an enthusiast Terranboy, but to me you sound more like a cautious fanboy:"Oh no! That beastly 5800U will scare my hamster Percy! My baby sister will cry when she's playing "Barbie's Cathouse"! Heavens to Betsy NO! I'll stick with this nice safe 9800Pro, everyone has one and says they're oh so wonderful! I think my pal Timmy's Grandma is even using one!"



BTW- all you "enthusiasts" still smacking it to your 9800Pros- you should be cursing ATI instead of smacking at them. Ever think what the performance of a 9800 Pro could have been on .13 silicon for the last year? Ever think what it could have been with something like nVidia's 400-437MHz DDR instead of the bargain basement 340MHz crap? Ever think they might have eked some more core speed out with a Silencer type OTES solution? Or are you just happy they gave you the minimum they had to to maintain their slim lead over the 5900s?

 

[BFG10K]

You didn't tell us about the better rotated grid AA (that doesn't work on alpha textures)

It's nothing to do with grid rotation; it's the fact that it's MSAA. nVidia does the same unless you use the xS modes which are much slower.

or the the AF that performs a little better because it only filters half the angles.

Yet it also samples double amount of texels.

1. The performance of the Morris Minor is no where near the the performance of the Porsches and Ferraris,

It is when you use a ridiculous test like the two meter driveway, much like the other thread where you used 1024 x 768 to proclaim the 5800U was "equal".

Nobody rates cars on their performance in 2 meter races.

Just like nobody compares GPUs in CPU limited settings. Well nobody except you that is.

When I post benches that show the 5800U equaling the performance of the 9700Pro at 10X7 and 12X10 4X 8X,

And there it is folks, the fourth new setting in Rollo's ever-moving goalpost. First that setting only applied to the 6800U but now it's sneaked into the 5800.

So in his equality claims we've gone through the following:
1024 x 768, 0xAF, 0xAA.
1024 x 768, 4xAF, 4xAA.
1024 x 768, 8xAF, 4xAA.
1280 x 1024, 8xAF, 4xAA.

Notice how each time he shifts the goalpost to make it suit his argument depending on which current card he's using. Also notice how the 5800U is fast enough to run all of those settings while he complains that faster ATi cards can't handle them.

Yes folks, Rollo is just a collector. He's not trying to troll at all. :roll:

Don't sweat the logic though BFG, why start making sense now?

:roll:

 

[nRollo]

BFGI don't even know how to respond to this.

First of all, pretty much all reviewers compare cards at 10X7, 4x8x. It's a pretty common setting. Can you post links to some reviews that don't?! Better let Anand, Thresh, Tom, Xbit, Digit Life, etc in on your big secret that nobody would run cards at those settings, so why test them? :roll:

Second, I've always said the 5800U is about the equal of the 9700Pro at 12X10 4X8x and below, at least since they fixed the drivers about a month after it's release. On the other hand you've always said those settings didn't matter and that you have to look at 16X12 4X8X, whether it was playable or not, because those are the settings the 9700/9800 Pros more efficient AA/AF give them the edge?

BFG, I'm starting to think you're Rush Limbaugh, and you haven't kicked the Oxycontin. :roll:

These have been our arguments for months and months and months.....I can link to the posts if you like.

 

[BFG10K]

BFGI don't even know how to respond to this.

I know.

First of all, pretty much all reviewers compare cards at 10X7, 4x8x. It's a pretty common setting.

That isn't relevant at all. What is relevant is the nature of your arguments, especially in light of the fact that your first two settings aren't even the settings you're talking about now.

Just as an example, the very first argument we had with this you claimed to use 0xAA and 0xAF because you claimed the 9700 Pro was too slow at running them. Then after you moved to a 5800U those settings mysteriously increased to 4xAA and 4xAF.

It's like climbing a 25 degree hill in a Ferrari, complaining it's too slow and then picking up a Morris Minor only to then start climbing 35 degree hills with it. Such behaviour cannot be explained by normal reasoning, collector or no collector.

Second, I've always said the 5800U is about the equal of the 9700Pro at 12X10 4X8x and below,

Actually you never said that at all. In fact you've only just started using 1280 x 1024 since the 6800U reviews were out.

And that is my exact point.

 

[MichaelZ]

... is this still going? when is rollo vs bfg gonna end...?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: i82lazyboy
... is this still going? when is rollo vs bfg gonna end...?

When BFG buys a 6800.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: i82lazyboy
... is this still going? when is rollo vs bfg gonna end...?

When BFG buys a 6800.

Unless of course I buy I x800XT, in which case BFG will spend his time telling me about how PS3 is superior to that old fashioned PS2.....

 

[Regs]

I believe the discussion was brought up before about ATi using slower ram than Nvidia and will be answered the same way today as before. Nividia's core ate up the bandwidth which was simply not needed by the ATI. ATi's core design and architecture was not parallel enough to make a performance increase off of faster ram.

The rest of which you argue is opinionative at best. Bringing up a ATI being generic and not for the hardware enthusiast are not good arguments.

And once again you resort to naming whoever sticks up for ATi a fan boy. Which is funny since half the members on this site knew that you started this thread for flame bait. Using "LOL" as the first characters of your thread topic can't make it any more black and white for us. "Lets see all the ATI fanboys talk now". Congratulations are in order, it worked. Must we be so arrogant to ignore the facts and to compensate the performance of a card for silly, subjective, and wordy explanations that could be twisted into oblivion?

The FX line suffered some draw backs and mistakes. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Insomniak]

Dudes, just quit arguing already. The 5800U is teh roxxor and the 9700 Pro is teh roxxor and we're all teh roxxor.

Let it die.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Rollo
A new corvette is a superior car to a 1970 Hemi 'Cuda or 440 Six Pack Challenger, but I know which I would rather drive by far.

(mmmm...3 carburetors......smacksmacksmack....Mopar...smacksmack......Hurst pistol grip...smacksmacksmacksmack...)

The 5800Ultra of cars

cept the t/a challenger 6pack had a 340cu

 

[nRollo]

That was a pretty cool car as well, Cainam. I love all the 70-74 Cudas and Challengers, that was a killer body style.

 

[CaiNaM]

aye.. i always wanted one. a buddy of mine in high school had a 70 hemi cuda... i always wanted an aar cuda or t/a challenger. had an 67 rs/ss camaro, but had to get married early and traded it for some property.. wish i still had it tho, car probably would've lasted longer than my first wife lol