Lockheed Martin is a fail company

[thegimp03]

$150 million for an F35? $250 million for an F22? Really? These fighters are not even remotely cost effective. They might have once bean a great company, but somewhere they lost their way. As a Canadian Citizen I'm disgusted that our government is even considering buying these overpriced POS. We'd be better off buying Russian fighters or Eurofighter Typhoons.

Maybe if Canada bought more than 2 jets at one time they'd get a discount. Not sure why Canada needs an air force anyways, what is there to defend?

 

[sdifox]

Hell I'm surprised to find out the Canadians aren't still flying Sopwith Camels or some model of Nieuport

That's because you don't even know where Canada is.

Maybe if Canada bought more than 2 jets at one time they'd get a discount. Not sure why Canada needs an air force anyways, what is there to defend?

Fucking Harper (our PM) wants to buy 65 @C$8.5B

 

[shiner]

That's because you don't even know where Canada is.

Fucking Harper (our PM) wants to buy 65 @C$8.5B

Odd...since I just spent a week in Quebec City and then drove from there to Niagara Falls last September. I guess I was lost the whole time....I was wondering why those Jamaicans were so white and drank milk from a bag.

 

[Scouzer]

Maybe if Canada bought more than 2 jets at one time they'd get a discount. Not sure why Canada needs an air force anyways, what is there to defend?

Canada is purchasing 65.

 

[ShawnD1]

Maybe if Canada bought more than 2 jets at one time they'd get a discount. Not sure why Canada needs an air force anyways, what is there to defend?

Pretty much this. All defense should be in the form of missiles and ICBMs.

Some boats and stuff would be good for stopping illegal immigration from china.

 

[Bignate603]

Dude.. a Eurofighter Typhoon is $125 million. It's not like they are worlds cheaper than the F35's our government is buying.

A Tranche 3 is actually 90 million pounds, or in dollars at current rates $147 million.


The prices are about equivalent but there's a reason why the Typhoon is considered a 4.5th generation fighter and the F35 is considered a 5th generation fighter. The Typhoon is not a bad airplane by any means but much of its design is an evolution of 4th generation fighter technology.

 

[Dominato3r]

Need new glasses?




1. RCAF
2. Canadian Forces
3. Canadian Forces Air Command

Forget it.

:|

 

[Scouzer]

Fucking Harper (our PM) wants to buy 65 @C$8.5B

Your political opinions aside, the bill is $16 billion for the 65 jets.

 

[Scouzer]

A Tranche 3 is actually 90 million pounds, or in dollars at current rates $147 million.


The prices are about equivalent but there's a reason why the Typhoon is considered a 4.5th generation fighter and the F35 is considered a 5th generation fighter. The Typhoon is not a bad airplane by any means but much of its design is an evolution of 4th generation fighter technology.

According to Wikipedia..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

90 million euro, which is 125 million canadian.

or 196 million cad including development costs

 

[sdifox]

Your political opinions aside, the bill is $16 billion for the 65 jets.

well, that was the starting number, then it went to 16.7, and can go as high as 29.3


All without competitive bidding process.


http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/03/10/2912890/canadas-f-35-order-grows-more.html

 

[Dominato3r]

That's because you don't even know where Canada is.




Fucking Harper (our PM) wants to buy 65 @C$8.5B

Price aside, 65 is such as nonsense number.

 

[zerocool84]

Russian fighters are made by private companies, not the government, and they sell them to countries far more likely to use them against Russia than Canada.

According to wikipedia, the per unit cost of a Typhoon is $125 mil including development costs. The cost of an F35 is $122 mil - $150 mil not including dev costs, which are HUGE, and all customers have to pay their share.

Well YOUR country sees the Eurofighter as not good enough so Lockheed Martin must be doing something right. They can charge so much for it and countries are willing to buy them so fail not found.

 

[sdifox]

Price aside, 65 is a nonsensically low number of jets.

Can you imagine buying 138 to replace all the CF-188?

 

[sdifox]

Well YOUR country sees the Eurofighter as not good enough so Lockheed Martin must be doing something right. They can charge so much for it and countries are willing to buy them so fail not found.

You missed the part where the PM decided to single source without an open bid.

 

[JS80]

Russian fighters are made by private companies, not the government, and they sell them to countries far more likely to use them against Russia than Canada.

According to wikipedia, the per unit cost of a Typhoon is $125 mil including development costs. The cost of an F35 is $122 mil - $150 mil not including dev costs, which are HUGE, and all customers have to pay their share.

So you'd pay $125 million for a fighter that will lose against a $150 million+ F35?

 

[Dominato3r]

Well YOUR country sees the Eurofighter as not good enough so Lockheed Martin must be doing something right. They can charge so much for it and countries are willing to buy them so fail not found.

Nah. The PM just pointed his finger at these jets and said we're getting them.

 

[Scouzer]

Price aside, 65 is such as nonsense number.

I don't see why. We have 80 CF-18's, 65 CF-35's sounds appropriate for our global obligations.

 

[BoomerD]

Forget it.

:|

Here...is this what you're looking for?

http://www.rcaf.com/history/beginning.php

the Beginning
Canadian Aviation Corps. 1914 - 1915

the Creation
Canadian Air Force 1918 - 1920

the Establishment
Royal Canadian Air Force 1924 - 1938

the War Years
Royal Canadian Air Force 1939 - 1945

the Cold War
Royal Canadian Air Force 1948 - 1968

Unification
Air Command 1968 - 1996

"On 4 November 1966, Bill C-243, "The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act," was introduced to amend the National Defence Act; the Canadian Army, the Royal Canadian Navy and the Royal Canadian Air Force, previously separate and independent services, would become one. Following debate in the House of Commons and further examination in the Defence Committee, the Bill was given third and final reading in April 1967, clearing the way for unification.

The Canadian Forces Reorganization Act came into effect on 1 February 1968. With that, the identity of the RCAF, its records and its achievements, were laid to rest in the pages of Canadian aviation and military history."

 

[Scouzer]

Nah. The PM just pointed his finger at these jets and said we're getting them.

I agree we should have had a competition, but really anything that actually lets our defence department procure something rather than stall and whine for decades is a good thing. The F-35 is pretty much the only reasonable choice. We've also invested $500 million in development costs prior to the procurement.

 

[qliveur]

LOL, the Eurofighter's gestation period has been even more absurdly long than the F-22's. The airframe is early 80s tech. Why not just upgrade their CF-18s?

 

[0roo0roo]

According to Wikipedia..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

90 million euro, which is 125 million canadian.

or 196 million cad including development costs

plus with the eurofighter you have to wonder how much of the costs are for the plane, and how much is based on farming out production to each country as government pork .

 

[sdifox]

LOL, the Eurofighter's gestation period has been even more absurdly long than the F-22's. The airframe is early 80s tech. Why not just upgrade their CF-18s?

Because this is Harper's way of paying for protection. I would rather have m1a1s :biggrin:

 

[Dominato3r]

I don't see why. We have 80 CF-18's, 65 CF-35's sounds appropriate for our global obligations.

I dont know how they could keep up with the pace of operations down the road...


IMO A good number to keep would be somewhere near 80 F35s (which from what I know what the original number).

 

[Scouzer]

Because this is Harper's way of paying for protection. I would rather have m1a1s :biggrin:

Our Leopard 2's are very comparable to an M1A1.

 

[Scouzer]

I dont know how they could keep up with the pace of operations down the road...


IMO A good number to keep would be somewhere near 80 F35s (which from what I know what the original number).

We rarely deploy more than 5-10 at any given time (4 to Libya, for example) so I don't see the need for more. Besides, we can't afford to get 130+ like we originally did with the F-18.