Lock, please.

[Random Variable]

Note to self: Stop starting Palestinian/Israeli threads.

 

[ThePresence]

WARNING!

Flamefest invitation

 

[Czar]

Vespasian,
Europe is not violently anti-israeli, thats just stupid to say so, its like saying the US is violently anti-palestinian

What Europe wants is peace in the reagion and it doesnt belive that peace can be aqired by violent means.

 

[m2kewl]

<< WARNING! Flamefest invitation >>



No sh*t!

 

[ThePresence]

<< Vespasian,
Europe is not violently anti-israeli, thats just stupid to say so, its like saying the US is violently anti-palestinian

What Europe wants is peace in the reagion and it doesnt belive that peace can be aqired by violent means. >>



In that case, the Europeans should be Anti-Palestinian, because they are the ones who originally tried to achieve their means through violence.

 

[Czar]

<<

<< Vespasian,
Europe is not violently anti-israeli, thats just stupid to say so, its like saying the US is violently anti-palestinian

What Europe wants is peace in the reagion and it doesnt belive that peace can be aqired by violent means. >>



In that case, the Europeans should be Anti-Palestinian, because they are the ones who originally tried to achieve their means through violence. >>


They are in some way, you dont see anyone supporting suicide bombings there, you see people condamning them. What europe does support is the Palestinian will of an independant country. Being "anti" towards one side does not mean your ar "pro" towards the other side.

 

[Random Variable]

Czar

The EU scolds the United States for having a bias when they themselves have a bias.

 

[Czar]

<< Czar

The EU scolds the United States for having a bias when they themselves have a bias. >>


and are you saying the US doesnt have a bias towards the Israelis?
As far as I can see from the European press then Europe supports both the existance of Israel and Palestine, they do not belive like I said before that violent actions will serve no good for any peace process, they belive that the current isreali actions are exesive and will not accomplish anything substansial.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<<

<< Vespasian,
Europe is not violently anti-israeli, thats just stupid to say so, its like saying the US is violently anti-palestinian

What Europe wants is peace in the reagion and it doesnt belive that peace can be aqired by violent means. >>



In that case, the Europeans should be Anti-Palestinian, because they are the ones who originally tried to achieve their means through violence. >>


They are in some way, you dont see anyone supporting suicide bombings there, you see people condamning them. What europe does support is the Palestinian will of an independant country. Being "anti" towards one side does not mean your ar "pro" towards the other side. >>



Oh please. The US supports a Palestinian State too. Of course you dont see anyone supporting suicide bombers publicly, but all you hear are the calls for Israel to get out, and the occasional Arafat needs to more. Just like the UN. Demand action NOW from the Israelis and a mild "Arafat needs to more". No f@#$ing kidding.

 

[Random Variable]

<< and are you saying the US doesnt have a bias towards the Israelis? >>


No.



<< As far as I can see from the European press then Europe supports both the existance of Israel and Palestine, they do not belive like I said before that violent actions will serve no good for any peace process, they belive that the current isreali actions are exesive and will not accomplish anything substansial. >>


The EU refuses to recognize their blatantly pro-Palestinian position. Nevertheless, they claim that they can be more honest brokers than the United States.

 

[Czar]

<< Oh please. The US supports a Palestinian State too. Of course you dont see anyone supporting suicide bombers publicly, but all you hear are the calls for Israel to get out, and the occasional Arafat needs to more. Just like the UN. Demand action NOW from the Israelis and a mild "Arafat needs to more". No f@#$ing kidding. >>


Publicly? I dont see any support anywhere regardless who I talk to or where I look. The way people look at it here is that the suicide bombings are the symptoms of the problem and that the problem is the occupation, in the simplest form that is.

 

[Czar]

<< The EU refuses to recognize their blatantly pro-Palestinian position. Nevertheless, they claim that they can be more honest brokers than the United States. >>


Look at this sentence turned around
"The US refuses to recognize their blatantly pro-Israeli position. Nevertheless, they claim that they can be more honest brokers than the EU."
This is how europe sees it and it aint just Europe, people in Australia have been protesting heavily for the last week or so.

 

[glenn1]

<< The way people look at it here is that the suicide bombings are the symptoms of the problem and that the problem is the occupation, in the simplest form that is. >>



"Occupation" presumes that it's Palestinian territory to begin with, which it is not. Israel captured the so-called "occupied territorities" in war, therefore it belongs to Israel. The Palestinians live there at the sufferance of Israel.

 

[Stiler]

i don't get this, bush says we shouldn't neogiate with terrorists and now he wants to? what should israel do? just go back home and get bombed more? i think they should get arafat.

 

[ThePresence]

<<
Publicly? I dont see any support anywhere regardless who I talk to or where I look. The way people look at it here is that the suicide bombings are the symptoms of the problem and that the problem is the occupation, in the simplest form that is. >>



Suicide bombings are symptoms of the problem. The way I see it suicide bombings are a pretty damn big problem on their own, not the "symptom" of another problem. You gotta address that problem on its own, not try to analyze why its happening. You first gotta stop it. Then if you want, you can go figure out why they're doing it. When innocent people are getting blown to little tiny bits, in my eyes, thats a problem.

 

[Random Variable]

<< This is how europe sees it and it aint just Europe, people in Australia have been protesting heavily for the last week or so. >>


So the answer is to have countries that don't give a damn about Israel's fututre do the negotiating?

 

[Czar]

<< Suicide bombings are symptoms of the problem. The way I see it suicide bombings are a pretty damn big problem on their own, not the "symptom" of another problem. You gotta address that problem on its own, not try to analyze why its happening. You first gotta stop it. Then if you want, you can go figure out why they're doing it. When innocent people are getting blown to little tiny bits, in my eyes, thats a problem. >>


that is true, they can definetly be called a problem of its own. If the sicide bombings must be stopped before the "bigger" problem will be solved then how can you do that? the way I see it the current actions are just temporaly slowing down the suicide bombing problem while making the other occupation problem even a bigger one and harder to solve. Currently there are innocent people getting blown to bits in Palestine and thats why its a problem also.

 

[Czar]

<<

<< This is how europe sees it and it aint just Europe, people in Australia have been protesting heavily for the last week or so. >>


So the answer is to have countries that don't give a damn about Israel's fututre do the negotiating? >>


well it would finaly bring a neutral third party into the peace process
What it needs is a neutral third party that both sides listens to. Sadly neither the US or the EU seems to havethat.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< Suicide bombings are symptoms of the problem. The way I see it suicide bombings are a pretty damn big problem on their own, not the "symptom" of another problem. You gotta address that problem on its own, not try to analyze why its happening. You first gotta stop it. Then if you want, you can go figure out why they're doing it. When innocent people are getting blown to little tiny bits, in my eyes, thats a problem. >>


that is true, they can definetly be called a problem of its own. If the sicide bombings must be stopped before the "bigger" problem will be solved then how can you do that? the way I see it the current actions are just temporaly slowing down the suicide bombing problem while making the other occupation problem even a bigger one and harder to solve. Currently there are innocent people getting blown to bits in Palestine and thats why its a problem also. >>



If you do that, you'll be showing all the worlds terrorists that terrorism works. You cant give in to terrorism, because then it becomes a viable means to solve any problem in the world.

 

[zoiks]

i think that they should get sharon instead of arafat. sharon is the reason all this started.




<< Occupation" presumes that it's Palestinian territory to begin with, which it is not. Israel captured the so-called "occupied territorities" in war, therefore it belongs to Israel. The Palestinians live there at the sufferance of Israel. >>



does this mean that if a radical nation bombs israel like what happened to japan and then occupies it then it would be justified in its takeover???????

friend..i dont think u make sense with that analogy.

 

[Czar]

<< If you do that, you'll be showing all the worlds terrorists that terrorism works. You cant give in to terrorism, because then it becomes a viable means to solve any problem in the world. >>


Not realy since the definition on the words "freedom fighter" can be applied to the Palestinians, but there will always be some who will look at them as terrorists and some as freedom fighters.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< If you do that, you'll be showing all the worlds terrorists that terrorism works. You cant give in to terrorism, because then it becomes a viable means to solve any problem in the world. >>


Not realy since the definition on the words "freedom fighter" can be applied to the Palestinians, but there will always be some who will look at them as terrorists and some as freedom fighters. >>



Freedom fighters?! These guys are killing INNOCENTS! not military. How anyone can define those that take pot shots at innocent women and children, or blow up grocery stores and resturants, as freedom fighters is totally beyond me.

 

[Miramonti]

<< i think that they should get sharon instead of arafat. sharon is the reason all this started.
>>

 

[glenn1]

<< but there will always be some who will look at them as terrorists and some as freedom fighters. >>



Only the morons look at them as freedom fighters. They're fighting a free, democratically elected state, so that they replace it with yet another Arab dictatorship. Yeah, sounds like freedom fighters to me.

And for those who support the Palestinian cause, do a single damn one of you actually believe that an independent nation of Palestine would be anything else than a totalitarian state? Which would you rather have as the nation bordering yours, Israel or New Palestine?

 

[Moonbeam]

zoiks, you don't believe that might is right?