lock me

[HAL9000]

Dude you guys are the biggest nanny state ever, your immigrations policies have given these groups the right to come into your country and take it over. I am not surprised at all.

Oh I see, well actually a lot of these nut bags are homegrown unfortunately.

 

[OutHouse]

When they target a minority group.



Exactly.

women ARE a minority.

 

[HAL9000]

women ARE a minority.

True, which is why any crimes based on gender are also a hate crime.

 

[monovillage]

No, we are ahead of you, that just allows you to specify a crime related to sexual orientation, ours limits speech.



We have free speech, we also have freedom from speech, which is equally important

LMAO

 

[OutHouse]

True, which is why any crimes based on gender are also a hate crime.

so in your world is a honor killing a hate crime or just plain murder?

 

[HAL9000]

LMAO

hahahaha

so in your world is a honor killing a hate crime or just plain murder?

Given that it isn't a crime committed because of someones gender race, religious persuasion or sexual orientation I'd have to say it's just a murder, a terrible murder but a murder none the less.

If the woman being murdered were being murdered just because they were women not because of some delusional sense of honour then I'd call it a hate crime.

 

[irishScott]

Uh... good for you? Or not. Misleading headline. They weren't threatening to kill gay people, they simply said Gay people should be given the death penalty. That's a political opinion, and they should be give out as many leaflets as they'd like.

 

[HAL9000]

Uh... good for you? Or not. Misleading headline. They weren't threatening to kill gay people, they simply said Gay people should be given the death penalty. That's a political opinion, and they should be give out as many leaflets as they'd like.

I disagree, they were spreading hate, hate against gay people. Which is illegal in the UK.

 

[Munky]

And this is why I'm glad I don't live in the UK. Next up, they'll ban the word "gay" as offensive and hate-speech. Way to go, nanny state.

 

[Texashiker]

Given that it isn't a crime committed because of someones gender race, religious persuasion or sexual orientation I'd have to say it's just a murder, a terrible murder but a murder none the less.

But honor killings are based on religious persuasion, and prejudice against women.

By your own definition, honor killings should be a hate crime.

I guess that hate crimes only happen against women when the women are gay?

Muslim Husband - koran says I have to kill my wife to preserve family honor.

Gay hater - your gay, so you have to die.

Is there any real difference there?

 

[HAL9000]

And this is why I'm glad I don't live in the UK. Next up, they'll ban the word "gay" as offensive and hate-speech. Way to go, nanny state.

We don't ban words...

But honor killings are based on religious persuasion, and prejudice against women.

They are based on certainly religions, but you aren't being discriminated against for your beliefs, also honours killings are not strictly targeted at women.

By your own definition, honor killings should be a hate crime.

I guess that hate crimes only happen against women when the women are gay?

Muslim Husband - koran says I have to kill my wife to preserve family honor.

Gay hater - your gay, so you have to die.

Is there any real difference there?

Yes, one targets an entire segment of the population, the other targets a specific person, one is based on hate of a specific sexual orientation the other is based on disapproval for an individuals actions that are not based on orientation or gender or religious beliefs.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this law is only being targeted to be used against minorities in the UK. How about prosecuting the inbred royal family for discriminatory practices, too? The UK despises minorities of all types, so much so that they still retain an inbred family to keep a head of state position out of the reach of minorities.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

No, we are ahead of you, that just allows you to specify a crime related to sexual orientation, ours limits speech.

Yah, that's real...progressive.

Our laws tend to be quite a bit more careful about treading all over speech simply because people might find it offensive. If that puts us behind you in your opinion, well, that's YOUR opinion.

 

[HAL9000]

Yah, that's real...progressive.

Our laws tend to be quite a bit more careful about treading all over speech simply because people might find it offensive. If that puts us behind you in your opinion, well, that's YOUR opinion.

There's a difference between offensive speech and hate speech.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

There's a difference between offensive speech and hate speech.

So where is the line drawn between the two? Or is hate speech like porn, they'll know it when they see it?

 

[HAL9000]

So where is the line drawn between the two? Or is hate speech like porn, they'll know it when they see it?

I like this definition, but yes you know it when you see it.

In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I'm as anti-homophobia as you'll find (I was raised by lesbian mothers, which tends to make someone fairly pro-gay rights), but I think that "hate crime" laws do more harm than good. I understand that the law needs to look at intent when judging certain crimes, but why do we need to have different rules for murder based on homophobia than murder based on a robbery (for example)? It's murder either way. Does it really make a difference that the murderer killed someone because of their sexual orientation? Does that make them a worse person? "Oh, he's a murderer, and we're basically OK with that, but he's also a bigot, and we just can't have that in our society..." It makes no sense.

Prosecute people for handing out leaflets that directly call for violent crimes to be perpetrated; that's illegal. But don't go acting like prosecuting someone differently because they said "lovely human" is going to have any positive effect on changing the mindset of a bigot. If anything, it will reinforce their bigotry, as they can blame the homosexual agenda for corrupting the judiciary, which just further validates any deranged rantings they might have. You aren't going to change a bigot's mind through punitive measures; only education and personal experience will do that. I guess they're hoping that these people have an "American History X" moment in jail where they can stop being bigots because a gay guy made them laugh; otherwise, this legislation makes absolutely no sense.

 

[irishScott]

I disagree, they were spreading hate, hate against gay people. Which is illegal in the UK.

And if they want to form a fringe political opinion based on that hate that's their right. Much like the Westboro Baptist Church over here. The only rational reasons to ban such opinions is either fear that they will catch on, or that they've already caught on and hate crimes against gays are common enough to bring this matter to the gov's attention. Either one speaks very badly of the UK.

Of course, you have the irrational argument that they were "spreading hate". Spreading any idea takes two. I once again refer to the Westboro Baptist church, who's population (of a whopping 150 to start with) is actually shrinking despite their attempts to "spread hate". Even if it was growing, people have a right to hate if they so desire. It's committing crimes based on that hate that is against the law.

Or is the UK on a "Brave New World"-style mission to rid the world of all hate? Orgy Porgy in the streets of London, coming soon!

 

[BoberFett]

I like this definition, but yes you know it when you see it.

So anytime you say something bad about Americans you're breaking the law? Somebody call the bobbies and have this fool put away for life.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm as anti-homophobia as you'll find (I was raised by lesbian mothers, which tends to make someone fairly pro-gay rights), but I think that "hate crime" laws do more harm than good. I understand that the law needs to look at intent when judging certain crimes, but why do we need to have different rules for murder based on homophobia than murder based on a robbery (for example)? It's murder either way. Does it really make a difference that the murderer killed someone because of their sexual orientation? Does that make them a worse person? "Oh, he's a murderer, and we're basically OK with that, but he's also a bigot, and we just can't have that in our society..." It makes no sense.

Prosecute people for handing out leaflets that directly call for violent crimes to be perpetrated; that's illegal. But don't go acting like prosecuting someone differently because they said "lovely human" is going to have any positive effect on changing the mindset of a bigot. If anything, it will reinforce their bigotry, as they can blame the homosexual agenda for corrupting the judiciary, which just further validates any deranged rantings they might have. You aren't going to change a bigot's mind through punitive measures; only education and personal experience will do that. I guess they're hoping that these people have an "American History X" moment in jail where they can stop being bigots because a gay guy made them laugh; otherwise, this legislation makes absolutely no sense.

Very well said.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I like this definition, but yes you know it when you see it.

Seems rather open to interpretation. Here's hoping your lads in the powdered wigs play nicely with it.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Basically, you see it when it involves minorities saying anything, but you'll never see it when it involves the majority.

 

[Double Trouble]

We have free speech, we also have freedom from speech, which is equally important

You realize those two are basically incompatible right? If someone has the right to censor your speech because it offends them then you don't have free speech. You don't have free speech. You have the right to utter politically correct approved speech.

 

[Double Trouble]

I'm as anti-homophobia as you'll find (I was raised by lesbian mothers, which tends to make someone fairly pro-gay rights), but I think that "hate crime" laws do more harm than good. I understand that the law needs to look at intent when judging certain crimes, but why do we need to have different rules for murder based on homophobia than murder based on a robbery (for example)? It's murder either way. Does it really make a difference that the murderer killed someone because of their sexual orientation? Does that make them a worse person? "Oh, he's a murderer, and we're basically OK with that, but he's also a bigot, and we just can't have that in our society..." It makes no sense.

Prosecute people for handing out leaflets that directly call for violent crimes to be perpetrated; that's illegal. But don't go acting like prosecuting someone differently because they said "lovely human" is going to have any positive effect on changing the mindset of a bigot. If anything, it will reinforce their bigotry, as they can blame the homosexual agenda for corrupting the judiciary, which just further validates any deranged rantings they might have. You aren't going to change a bigot's mind through punitive measures; only education and personal experience will do that. I guess they're hoping that these people have an "American History X" moment in jail where they can stop being bigots because a gay guy made them laugh; otherwise, this legislation makes absolutely no sense.

Excellent post!

PS: pics of moms?

 

[WelshBloke]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this law is only being targeted to be used against minorities in the UK. How about prosecuting the inbred royal family for discriminatory practices, too? The UK despises minorities of all types, so much so that they still retain an inbred family to keep a head of state position out of the reach of minorities.

What makes you think that a "minority" (nice phrasing by the way, its like 60s Alabama. Lets just lump all those non white folks into one big group) can't become a member of the royal family?