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mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
I get the whole gameplay over graphics thing.. but why release a whole new console that is only twice as powerful and only capable of 640x480? Is the Gamecube incapable of good gameplay?
Am I missing something or is the point of a new console to significantly improve horsepower? What if Nintendo decided to make the N64 twice as powerful as the SNES?
And how does processing power and higher resolution on the part of the HARDWARE preclude good gameplay? If anything, a more powerful system allows developers to spend less time on optimization and more on gameplay.
:confused:

IMO, the gameplay/graphics tradeoff exists only in the mind of the fanboy.
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I get the whole gameplay o:confused:ver graphics thing.. but why release a whole new console that is only twice as powerful and only capable of 640x480? Is the Gamecube incapable of good gameplay?
Am I missing something or is the point of a new console to significantly improve horsepower? What if Nintendo decided to make the N64 twice as powerful than the SNES?
And how does processing power and higher resolution preclude good gameplay?
:confused:

IMO, the gameplay/graphics tradeoff exists only in the mind of the fanboy.

yes, you obviously are missing the point. nintendo had to release new hardware for:
a) use of the wiimote motion stuff
b) online gameplay
c) well, it is twice as powerful.. most likely for a reason.
d) no on would buy an add-on upgrade for the gamecube... and it definitely wouldn't be as effective.
e) and i'm sure the resolution limit is in there so nintendo can profit. as much as i like them, they cannot sell their hardware at a loss like the big boys (big as in sony and MS do other things than gaming)


 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I get the whole gameplay over graphics thing.. but why release a whole new console that is only twice as powerful and only capable of 640x480? Is the Gamecube incapable of good gameplay?
Am I missing something or is the point of a new console to significantly improve horsepower? What if Nintendo decided to make the N64 twice as powerful as the SNES?
And how does processing power and higher resolution on the part of the HARDWARE preclude good gameplay? If anything, a more powerful system allows developers to spend less time on optimization and more on gameplay.
:confused:

IMO, the gameplay/graphics tradeoff exists only in the mind of the fanboy.

Gamecube doesnt have internal storage, wifi, or the hardware necessary for the snazzy new controller. It also sorely needs a bump in power, and as well all know, if a peripheral doesnt come with the system, it'll never get support. Releasing a new console was the only way to go.

You are missing something. The point of a new console is to one-up the experience over the old one.

A more powerful PC would require less optimization (as we all see with some PC games, and launch console games), but consoles are standardized, and allows developers to optimize to the extreme...they have to, to compete with the others. What will allow developers to spend less time on optimization is to extend the previous architetcure, as the Wii did, rather than create something incredibly more complex, as with the PS3.

And you are right, there is no tradeoff between gameplay and graphics. But there is one between graphics, cool new controllers and price. You can have it all, but itll cost way more, and no one will buy it.

Although that being said, the games look to be of such high caliber, that as excited as I am to play the new Wii games, I'd gladly shell out $400-$600 for the system if the graphics looked as good as those consoles, and in HD.

Gameplay is the bread, graphics are the butter. You can survive on just bread, and bread and butter is delicious, but I highly recommend against eating just butter. :p
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I get the whole gameplay over graphics thing.. but why release a whole new console that is only twice as powerful and only capable of 640x480? Is the Gamecube incapable of good gameplay?
Am I missing something or is the point of a new console to significantly improve horsepower? What if Nintendo decided to make the N64 twice as powerful as the SNES?
And how does processing power and higher resolution on the part of the HARDWARE preclude good gameplay? If anything, a more powerful system allows developers to spend less time on optimization and more on gameplay.
:confused:

IMO, the gameplay/graphics tradeoff exists only in the mind of the fanboy.

I agree with you except for the fact that it also works the other way around, you can have great gameplay because of great graphics, or you can have great gameplay without great graphics. Like how DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball would be nothing without its graphics(shwing), and how Chrono Trigger would be nothing without its great storyline. Come to think of it, there aren't many games out there that are defined by its controller's features, most of the time its storyline, content, and graphics that define a game. If you think about it the wiimote is largely unproven so far, I guess we'll have to see if it really does live up to its hype.
 

wheresmybacon

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2004
3,899
1
76
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: thecrecarc
um... OP....

your a idiot. now stfu and go troll somewhere else

WII OWNS

I do??

oh come now, op. it appears you didn't win the spelling bee either:

Originally posted by: randay

While Playstation has rediculous variety and innovation in thier games' gameplay...

carry on...
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: randay
If you think about it the wiimote is largely unproven so far, I guess we'll have to see if it really does live up to its hype.

of course it's unproven. nintendo is trying to think outside the box. all you mentioned is great and all.. but who's gaming? mostly males in their late teens to late 20's. This is a large attempt by nintendo to blow that wide open... look at how the DS did. It's not much, but it's getting there.

so far, the feedback has been good from all the tradeshows and whatnot.. it's no real big surprise anymore. people have had their hands on it. it's just a matter of how the mass public will take it.

but i suppose you will take for what it's worth to you... and that is fine. i for one am hoping nintendo throws out some hard punches this time round. should they succeed, they of course have to come up with something else...
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: randay
If you think about it the wiimote is largely unproven so far, I guess we'll have to see if it really does live up to its hype.

Using that logic....so is the new PS3 controller Sixaxis, the cell, the RSX, and the PS3 as a whole...
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
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Originally posted by: randomlinh
look at how the DS did. It's not much, but it's getting there.

Anything that can make my grandmother pick up a game console - even a DS - without fear, and proudly proclaim that she's beating my grandfather at it ... that's definitely "much" in my eyes. :)

- M4H
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
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Originally posted by: Pastore
Found it...

Looks like this is a repost of the original post...

If you google "Geena Logenberry" (the mother) you'll find a few more hits...

Cliffs is the mom posted a message to a christian message board (seemingly no longer in existence, was hosted on voy.com) saying she caught her daughter playing with herself with a nintendo controller, then claims nintendo is the devil for releasing such a controller.

Pastore wins 50 Grasshopper Points! :D

- M4H
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: hungfarover

oh come now, op. it appears you didn't win the spelling bee either:

Yes, but I didn't do it while trying to insult another's intelligence. You get the picture now?
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Originally posted by: randomlinh
Originally posted by: randay
If you think about it the wiimote is largely unproven so far, I guess we'll have to see if it really does live up to its hype.

of course it's unproven. nintendo is trying to think outside the box. all you mentioned is great and all.. but who's gaming? mostly males in their late teens to late 20's. This is a large attempt by nintendo to blow that wide open... look at how the DS did. It's not much, but it's getting there.

so far, the feedback has been good from all the tradeshows and whatnot.. it's no real big surprise anymore. people have had their hands on it. it's just a matter of how the mass public will take it.

but i suppose you will take for what it's worth to you... and that is fine. i for one am hoping nintendo throws out some hard punches this time round. should they succeed, they of course have to come up with something else...

From personal playing experience, I think that Nintendo has the Wiimote down pat. Even the sensor bar is small and not noticeable. It's only about an inch high and about 10 inches longer. Easy to hide on top of a TV. I dont think nintendo would have gambled so much without making sure it WORKS and works well.
 

Randum

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2004
2,473
0
76
I just got a gamecube a couple weeks ago, and the games that are out for it, are great. Honestly some of the best console games i have ever played. but there are maybe at most 10-15 titles WORTH even trying. I have a ps2, and I have somewhere of 40-50 games for that system and there are a ton more that I do want to get in the future.
Current Gen is fine with me right now, plenty of options.

I would get a 360 if i did not own a pc that could game-its that simple, and I have a feeling the ps3 is headed in that direction as well. I want something to compliment my PC gaming hobby, which would be a console that is DIFFERENT than a PC...so hello Nintendo!
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: Queasy
Wii Specs
Technical specifications
Nintendo has released most technical specifics regarding the Wii console. The known details include:[1][27]

Processors:

CPU: PowerPC based processor codenamed "Broadway" made with a 90 nm SOI CMOS process.
GPU: ATI "Hollywood" GPU made with a 90 nm CMOS process [28].
Memory:

1T-SRAM [29]
Ports and peripheral capabilities:

Up to four Wii Remote controllers (connected wirelessly via Bluetooth)
One SD memory card slot
Two USB 2.0 ports
One Sensor Bar port
Four Nintendo GameCube controller ports
Two Nintendo GameCube memory card ports
Compatible with optional USB 2.0 to Ethernet LAN adaptor
Storage:

512 MB built-in flash memory
Expansion available via SD card memory
Slot-loading disc drive compatible with:
8 cm GameCube optical disc
12 cm Wii optical disc
Mask ROM by Macronix[30]
Built-in content ratings systems:

CERO,[citation needed] PEGI, ESRB
Video:

Up to 480p, will work with any TV or projector, and VGA output (Unconfirmed)[31]
Component (including Progressive scan), S-Video, or composite output
16:9 widescreen support
Audio:

Main: Stereo - Dolby Pro Logic II-capable[32]
Controller: Built-in speaker

Gamecube Specs
Central processing unit
Name: "Gekko"
Producer: IBM
Core Base: PowerPC 750CXe, 43-mm² die (modified PowerPC G3 750 RISC with about 50 new instructions)
Manufacturing Process: 0.18 micrometre IBM copper-wire technology
Clock Frequency: 485 MHz
CPU Capacity: 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)
Internal Data Precision:
32-bit Integer
64-bit Floating-point, usable as 2x32-bit SIMD
External Bus:
1.3 gigabyte/second peak bandwidth
32-bit address space
64-bit data bus; 162 MHz clock
Internal Cache:
L1: instruction 64KB, data 32KB (8 way)
L2: 256KB (2 way)
[edit]
Graphics processing unit
Name: "Flipper"
Producer: ArtX/Nintendo (ArtX was acquired by ATI Technologies in 2000 and is now a part of ATI.)
Manufacturing Process: 0.18 micrometre NEC embedded DRAM-compatible process
Clock Frequency: 162 MHz
Embedded Frame Buffer:
Approximately 2 megabytes in capacity
Sustainable latency of 6.2 nanoseconds
RAM type is 1T-SRAM
Embedded Texture Cache:
Approximately 1 megabyte in capacity, allowing 6 megabytes worth of uncompressed textures to be stored using S3TC.
Sustainable latency of 6.2 nanoseconds
RAM type is 1T-SRAM
Texture Read Bandwidth: 10.4 gigabytes/second (at peak)
Main Memory Bandwidth: 2.6 gigabytes/second (at peak)
Fill Rate: 648 megapixels/second
Pixel Depth:
24-bit RGB / RGBA
24-bit Z-buffer
Image Processing Functions:
Fog
Subpixel anti-aliasing
8 hardware lights
4 pixel pipelines (4 x 162 MHz = 648 MPixels)
hardware nurbs
Alpha blending
Virtual texture design
Multi-texturing, bump mapping
Environment mapping
MIP mapping
Bilinear filtering
Trilinear filtering
Anisotropic filtering
Real-time hardware texture decompression (S3TC)
Real-time decompression of display list
Hardware 3-line flicker filter
[edit]
Audio specifications
Processor: Custom Macronix DSP
DSP Clock Frequency: 81 MHz
Instruction Memory:
8 kilobytes of RAM
8 kilobytes of ROM
Data Memory:
8 kilobytes of RAM
4 kilobytes of ROM
Simultaneous Channels: 64 channels
Encoding: ADPCM
Digital Signal : 16 Bit
Sampling Frequency: 48 kHz
"Dolby Pro Logic II" in analog audio out
AC3 signal through "digital out" with D-Terminal cable

Yep...nothing more than a Gamecube.

I think the OP is taking Miyamoto's quote out of context.

Neither of those specs contradict each other at all, except for the chip names and the cpu manufacture process. One gives detailed benchmarks while the other gives nothing at all, in fact they could very well perform exactly the same.

I don't see how I have taken Miyamoto's quote out of context when I took it literally. He said that "The hardware is basically a GC". So unless he really meant that "The hardware is way better then a GC" then I think it is all these fanboys that have taken his quote out of context. He also plainly states that they plan to REMAKE GC games for the WII and modify them with the "wiimote" functionality.

Sony's PS3 has a revolutionary new architecture to its processor. Even IBM is using a similiar architecture in thier new server CPUs. As with any brand spanking new technology there will always be bugs to work out. You simply can't compare Sony's track record with Nintendo's. Nintendo only makes consoles, and the fact that thier console recipe hasn't changed much in years makes it obvious why they have a good track record.

Wake up and smell the coffee, you are paying for the same brand of fun that was to be had 10 years ago. Same characters, same themes, same mediocre hardware, only thing that is new is content.

I give Nintendo thier due credit for making some historically awesome games on thier Nintendo and Super Nintendo consoles, even the N64 had some good ones, but I can only stand Marios stupid face for so long.


Are you THAT dumb? That's like saying the Conroe 2 is crap compared to the AMDs out right now because they are both x86 platforms. The gamecube came out HOW many years ago? Think about what hardware you got for your money back then, then apply that to what you can get today. THAT is what you will find in the Wii, my God you sound like Sony rep... are you viral marketing? ;)
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: randay
I think the wiimote is only gonna be good when it comes to multiplayer games, other then that its gonna be like whackin off in the bathroom.

Is that a bad thing?

Are they gonna make a standard controller for when you're just not in the mood? or have a headache? or someone's already in the bathroom?

GC controller plugs right up dumbass
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: mugs
dee dee dee

I like how people just spew crap with nothing to back it up, then call me a retard for directly and literally interpreting a quote from miyamoto in an interview about the wii, with a link to it and everything. Its not my problem if miyamoto misrepresents the product he is trying to sell. And I don't have the will nor the time to read up on everything about the wii. Yet I am a retard for not blindly believing everything that people on the internet have to say. Thanks for making my day, again.


Let's see you speak japanese and not fvck it up smart guy...
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: hungfarover

oh come now, op. it appears you didn't win the spelling bee either:

Yes, but I didn't do it while trying to insult another's intelligence. You get the picture now?

Yes we know that you need pictures to understand OP, now why is this thread not locked?
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Randum
I just got a gamecube a couple weeks ago, and the games that are out for it, are great. Honestly some of the best console games i have ever played. but there are maybe at most 10-15 titles WORTH even trying. I have a ps2, and I have somewhere of 40-50 games for that system and there are a ton more that I do want to get in the future.
Current Gen is fine with me right now, plenty of options.

What games do you have for your GameCube?

Some of my favorites:
Mario Kart Double Dash
Fire Eblem
NHL Hitz (hockey fan :))
Fire Emblem
Gladius
Outlaw Golf
Simpsons Hit & Run
True Crime
Zelda - Windwaker
Mario Power Tennis

Gladius, NHL Hitz, Outlaw Golf, Simpsons Hit & Run, and True Crime are available on other systems. The others are exclusives

I'm a big fan of the Nintendo Wars series - love the GBA and DS Advance Wars games, and Batallion Wars on the cube is alright, but I wish they had stuck with more of a strategic game than an action game.
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061005-7916.html

Doing an analysis of the the components that Nintendo has ordered, 2 million may be available at launch, and 9 million by the end of the year.

9 million? Man they have some high, high hopes.

Despite your "concern" for Nintendo's next console, I think it will do just fine without you. I think after this rant that if you ever post anything positive about the Wii, its instaban.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061005-7916.html

Doing an analysis of the the components that Nintendo has ordered, 2 million may be available at launch, and 9 million by the end of the year.

9 million? Man they have some high, high hopes.

500,000? Sony must have some low, low hopes. ;)

But seriously - if Nintendo can have strong sales initially, they'll be able to get more third party support. Lack of third party support killed them last time.
 

palindrome

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
942
1
81
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061005-7916.html

Doing an analysis of the the components that Nintendo has ordered, 2 million may be available at launch, and 9 million by the end of the year.

9 million? Man they have some high, high hopes.

500,000? Sony must have some low, low hopes. ;)

But seriously - if Nintendo can have strong sales initially, they'll be able to get more third party support. Lack of third party support killed them last time.

The ease of making games for the Wii vs the Xbox360 and the PoS3 will let nintendo prevail. If you want a computer buy a computer, if you want a sweet console, buy a wii.
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
76
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: Pastore
Found it...

Looks like this is a repost of the original post...

If you google "Geena Logenberry" (the mother) you'll find a few more hits...

Cliffs is the mom posted a message to a christian message board (seemingly no longer in existence, was hosted on voy.com) saying she caught her daughter playing with herself with a nintendo controller, then claims nintendo is the devil for releasing such a controller.

Pastore wins 50 Grasshopper Points! :D

- M4H

WOOT! Can I eat them?
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: Pastore
WOOT! Can I eat them?

I think if you got enough you could redeem them for a helicopter ride. :p

Though I'd have preferred a Thumper Ride. :D

/OldSchoolATOTReferences

- M4H
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I get the whole gameplay over graphics thing.. but why release a whole new console that is only twice as powerful and only capable of 640x480? Is the Gamecube incapable of good gameplay?
Am I missing something or is the point of a new console to significantly improve horsepower? What if Nintendo decided to make the N64 twice as powerful as the SNES?
And how does processing power and higher resolution on the part of the HARDWARE preclude good gameplay? If anything, a more powerful system allows developers to spend less time on optimization and more on gameplay.
:confused:

IMO, the gameplay/graphics tradeoff exists only in the mind of the fanboy.

the GC was only 2x to 3x more powerful than the N64, iirc. and there is no doubt those games look much better.


you can't compare the inflated numbers that sony and MS toss out when talking about how much better their new console is than their previous one, with nintendo's. nintendo has always rated things conservatively.